Sarmatian Empire Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1314108573' post='2786816'] Look, I don't mean to quibble, but....oh who am I kidding? I live to quibble. You say cancellation was an 'option' if Polaris didn't accept the idea of a downgrade. Alright, then. What was the other option you presented them with? I ask because the word 'option' implies that there was more than one possible outcome if they didn't like changing the nature of your agreement. If no other 'option' was one the table, then Polaris' actions are completely understandable. Or, to put it another way.... TIO: "I don't think we should be a 'couple' anymore. More like 'friends with benefits'. But if you're not happy with this, I suppose we'll have to break up." NpO: "Well, I still like you, but when can you get your crap out of my bathroom? It doesn't need to be there now." TIO: "What do you mean?" NpO: "I mean what I just said. We're not a couple. Please get your tampons out of my medicine cabinet. I'm going to need that space for condoms and lube." TIO: "You're being so unreasonable. Why are you hurting me like this?" [/quote] This should go down in history as a badass post. Congrats Polar, cutting off dead weight is never a bad thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) I like Polar, but you guys really need to go make some good friends. You're literally allied to some of the worst alliances on Bob and the cool folks that were allied to you guys are all gone. Good luck out there though guys. It is interesting that NV got to downgrade their treaty, but anyone else who wants to just gets canceled on. Not really a great friend making strategy. ( pretty funny that TOP doesn't even have to do anything to isolate Polar. They just sit back and wait for Polar to isolate themselves. ) Edited August 23, 2011 by Omniscient1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KahlanRahl Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 There was not other "option". We didn't get a chance to go back to our government drawing board and discuss another option after they turned down cancellation. We didn't present it as "downgrade or cancel" either. I have seen the conversation between Merger and Stagger Lee, and I can attest to there being no option presented from Stagger Lee about cancellation. In fact every time cancellation was mentioned Stagger Lee corrected him. We had discussed approaching Polar with a downgrade. That's what we did. Were we surprised they jumped to cancellation instead? No, not really. We had also discussed that possible outcome from their end, given the IAA situation recently. Doesn't mean we wanted that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1314108573' post='2786816'] You say cancellation was an 'option' if Polaris didn't accept the idea of a downgrade. Alright, then. What was the other option you presented them with? I ask because the word 'option' implies that there was more than one possible outcome if they didn't like changing the nature of your agreement. If no other 'option' was one the table, then Polaris' actions are completely understandable. [/quote] Either I misworded it, or you didn't read it right. Basically, we didn't present a cancellation as an offer, Stagger spoke to Merger offering a downgrade to an ODP/ODoAP. In the logs I've seen, he didn't actually say cancellation. I meant it was more of an possibility, (as it basically happened with IAA when they offered to downgrade) should the downgrade offer not be accepted. Frankly, we didn't feel our relationship was worthy of a treaty at MDoAP level anymore. There wasn't enough communication on both ends for that treaty, hence, the offer of an ODoAP, or we'd consider taking the option of getting rid of the treaty altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Greenberg Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Amossio' timestamp='1314095905' post='2786762'] unfortunately they are still tied to pacifica [/quote]You're right. They should cancel with NPO when NPO is about to get rolled. Kind of what like LoSS did. o/ Polaris Edited August 23, 2011 by Ryan Greenberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 I don't understand why TIO remains so confused about this at this point. You tld NpO you didn't want a compulsory ("mutual") treaty anymore, but you were ok with an optional treaty. Polaris doesn't do optional treaties, or didn't want an optional treaty with TIO. You keep saying that if they rejected the downgrade-to-optional "option" then you would go back to the drawing board, but there's nothing between O's and M's. There's no reason for TIO to feel slighted here, you didn't want to be forced to defend Polaris anymore, and now you aren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='Skippy' timestamp='1314112916' post='2786847'] Basically, we didn't present a cancellation as an offer, Stagger spoke to Merger offering a downgrade to an ODP/ODoAP. In the logs I've seen, he didn't actually say cancellation. I meant it was more of an possibility, (as it basically happened with IAA when they offered to downgrade) should the downgrade offer not be accepted. Frankly, we didn't feel our relationship was worthy of a treaty at MDoAP level anymore. There wasn't enough communication on both ends for that treaty, hence, the offer of an ODoAP, or we'd consider taking the option of getting rid of the treaty altogether. [/quote] Now if you had paid any attention to the IAA situation you would have noticed that the reason the IAA-Polar treaty was cancelled rather than downgraded was because there was no downgrade clause in the treaty and as such there is no way to "downgrade the treaty." Instead it would have been a completely new treaty had Polar accepted the idea of downgrading the relationship to an ODP, but well once again had you paid attention to the IAA situation you would have noticed that this simply doesn't fly with Polar. Anyways congratulations to TIO, now get rid of that other treaty and you might not suck total ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leet Guy Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='RandomInterrupt' timestamp='1314107452' post='2786808'] Actually you still have 48 hours or so. [/quote] Y'all really didn't wast any time to get this announcement out there, kudos for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amossio Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='Ryan Greenberg' timestamp='1314113257' post='2786850'] You're right. They should cancel with NPO when NPO is about to get rolled. Kind of what like LoSS did. o/ Polaris [/quote] The treaty was practically forced on us, cancelling on NPO was an awesome move, I'd do it again and again, anyways not here to discuss LoSS, you more than welcome to discuss it with me privatly, but I'm here to simply to say well done to TIO, you better off with out polar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rokula Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1314112319' post='2786843'] I like Polar, but you guys really need to go make some good friends. You're literally allied to some of the worst alliances on Bob and the cool folks that were allied to you guys are all gone. Good luck out there though guys. It is interesting that NV got to downgrade their treaty, but anyone else who wants to just gets canceled on. Not really a great friend making strategy. [/quote] Well those so-called worst alliances are the ones who have our backs come hell or high water, and the cool kids seem to run and hide if there is even a rumor of them losing their precious pixels. But then again only on planet Bob does sticking by your friends and having balls make you bad alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldConqueror Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='Amossio' timestamp='1314115060' post='2786864'] The treaty was practically forced on us, cancelling on NPO was an awesome move, I'd do it again and again, anyways not here to discuss LoSS, you more than welcome to discuss it with me privatly, but I'm here to simply to say well done to TIO, you better off with out polar. [/quote] yah guys we got to avoid a war and look like total cowards in the process, good job, high fives all round! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leet Guy Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='Rokula' timestamp='1314115428' post='2786867'] But then again only on planet Bob does sticking by your friends and having balls make you bad alliance. [/quote] Polaris Caring about friends I'm dying here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='Skippy' timestamp='1314112916' post='2786847'] Either I misworded it, or you didn't read it right. Basically, we didn't present a cancellation as an offer, Stagger spoke to Merger offering a downgrade to an ODP/ODoAP. In the logs I've seen, he didn't actually say cancellation. I meant it was more of an possibility, (as it basically happened with IAA when they offered to downgrade) should the downgrade offer not be accepted. Frankly, we didn't feel our relationship was worthy of a treaty at MDoAP level anymore. There wasn't enough communication on both ends for that treaty, hence, the offer of an ODoAP, or we'd consider taking the option of getting rid of the treaty altogether.[/quote] So then you got what you needed, even if you didn't necessarily say that was what you wanted. There's a song there some place.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Greenberg Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1314115909' post='2786874'] Polaris Caring about friends I'm dying here [/quote] MK should be the last alliance complaining about Polar not caring about or defending friends. Edited August 23, 2011 by Ryan Greenberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='Skippy' timestamp='1314112916' post='2786847'] Either I misworded it, or you didn't read it right. Basically, we didn't present a cancellation as an offer, Stagger spoke to Merger offering a downgrade to an ODP/ODoAP. In the logs I've seen, he didn't actually say cancellation. I meant it was more of an possibility, (as it basically happened with IAA when they offered to downgrade) should the downgrade offer not be accepted. Frankly, we didn't feel our relationship was worthy of a treaty at MDoAP level anymore. There wasn't enough communication on both ends for that treaty, hence, the offer of an ODoAP, or we'd consider taking the option of getting rid of the treaty altogether. [/quote] So basically you wanted to downgrade the treaty and Polaris wanted to maintain the treaty... What other options are there other than cancellation? To me, it would be doing what Polaris wanted and maintain the treaty and work to once again achieve that level of friendship, which apparently TIO did not want to do unless the treaty was downgraded. That honestly leaves only cancellation as an option since TIO did not want to do what Polaris wanted, and Polaris did not want to do what TIO wanted. In some cases, there really is no way to compromise. This appears to be one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefjoe Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 And the circle of friends grows smaller... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor Noldorin Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='Myworld' timestamp='1314076467' post='2786676'] Seems you jumped the gun and didn't listen to your ally again. [/quote] Shame shame shame, you little polar bears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yevgeni Luchenkov Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1314112319' post='2786843'] I like Polar, but you guys really need to go make some good friends. You're literally allied to some of the worst alliances on Bob and the cool folks that were allied to you guys are all gone. Good luck out there though guys. It is interesting that NV got to downgrade their treaty, but anyone else who wants to just gets canceled on. Not really a great friend making strategy. ( pretty funny that TOP doesn't even have to do anything to isolate Polar. They just sit back and wait for Polar to isolate themselves. ) [/quote] We take a very laissez-faire approach to old feuds. Hipster revanchism, if you will. Try-hards always lose. Edited August 23, 2011 by Yevgeni Luchenkov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pd73bassman Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 More Order drama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leet Guy Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='Ryan Greenberg' timestamp='1314116351' post='2786882'] MK should be the last alliance complaining about Polar not caring about or defending friends. [/quote] I chose the specific word "caring" for a reason, dear. I wasn't doubting your ability to defend friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cao Pai Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1314090348' post='2786745'] Why does this always happen to polar? [/quote] Because our treaty didn't have a clause for a downgrade and therefore a downgrade is impossible, duh. Anyways, good luck Polar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Best Polar announcement in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 is it just me or are the odds of a TOP member not sounding like a !@#$% inversely proportional to how much the thread has to do with NpO? It's like they get a hardon at the opportunity to make fun of NpO but then they can only manage to ejaculate all over their own face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmightyGrub Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 [quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1314132501' post='2787100'] is it just me or are the odds of a TOP member not sounding like a !@#$% inversely proportional to how much the thread has to do with NpO? It's like they get a hardon at the opportunity to make fun of NpO but then they can only manage to ejaculate all over their own face. [/quote] Now now Hizzy, it is not like they have ever been premature before.... TOP are free to trash us at every opportunity, we are after all very bad people and they are mostly superior in every facet of being outstanding citizens of Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janosik Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Nothing wrong with face lotion... I like your attitude Grub, you've got a winner's face on ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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