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A few brief announcements from the New Polar Order


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[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1314074867' post='2786656']
What's up with alliances thinking that they can just tell an ally that they've changed their treaty?
[/quote]

I don't know. I seem to remember going to Polaris to tell them that we wanted to discuss a downgrade. I don't remember changing the treaty without their consent.

Best of luck to Polaris. :wub:

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[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1314074867' post='2786656']
What's up with alliances thinking that they can just tell an ally that they've changed their treaty?
[/quote]
As far as I'm aware, we went into talks to downgrade the treaty, we didn't actually physically change the treaty.

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[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1314074867' post='2786656']
What's up with alliances thinking that they can just tell an ally that they've changed their treaty?
[/quote]
Actually, we didn't change it, or tell them that we had changed it. We approached them to discuss downgrading to an ODAP. Polar did not accept it and so they decided to cancel instead.

Edited by KahlanRahl
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[quote name='KahlanRahl' timestamp='1314075380' post='2786664']
Actually, we didn't change it, or tell them that we had changed it. We approached them to discuss downgrading to an ODAP. Polar did not accept it and so they decided to cancel instead.
[/quote]

You told me that you had already voted and the vote had passed to downgrade it. That's hardly 'discussing' it with us.

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[quote name='KahlanRahl' timestamp='1314075380' post='2786664']
Actually, we didn't change it, or tell them that we had changed it. We approached them to discuss downgrading to an ODAP. Polar did not accept it and so they decided to cancel instead.
[/quote]


[quote name='Mergerberger II' timestamp='1314075901' post='2786670']
You told me that you had already voted and the vote had passed to downgrade it. That's hardly 'discussing' it with us.
[/quote]

This is where the rest of the thread begins.

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[quote name='Mergerberger II' timestamp='1314075901' post='2786670']
You told me that you had already voted and the vote had passed to downgrade it. That's hardly 'discussing' it with us.
[/quote]

I never once recall saying that we were going to simply downgrade without any discussion from Polaris. I remember quite a bit of stating that we wanted to discuss a downgrade. I'm sure any Polaris diplomats can confirm that through the post I made which they can all view, and I'm also sure you can confirm that through our own discussions TIO wasn't going to simply change the treaty between us.

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Mergerberger, I would call what KahlanRahl stated as our people oked the downgrade so we could proceed to talk to Polar about it and look to having it at that type.

If Polar says "No to the downgrade." Then my guess is that TIO would re-evaluate the treaty farther or Polar would just say "Lets just cancel."

Seems you jumped the gun and didn't listen to your ally again.

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[quote name='Myworld' timestamp='1314076467' post='2786676']
Mergerberger, I would call what KahlanRahl stated as our people oked the downgrade so we could proceed to talk to Polar about it and look to having it at that type.

If Polar says "No to the downgrade." Then my guess is that TIO would re-evaluate the treaty farther or Polar would just say "Lets just cancel."

Seems you jumped the gun and didn't listen to your ally again.
[/quote]
Yeah, pretty much.

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[quote name='Facade' timestamp='1314076406' post='2786674']
I never once recall saying that we were going to simply downgrade without any discussion from Polaris. I remember quite a bit of stating that we wanted to discuss a downgrade. I'm sure any Polaris diplomats can confirm that through the post I made which they can all view, and I'm also sure you can confirm that through our own discussions TIO wasn't going to simply change the treaty between us.
[/quote]

Let me attempt to rephrase. TIO stated to us that they had decided that an MDoAP no longer fit the relationship we had. Instead, as you say, you wished to discuss a downgrade to an ODP. When I suggested multiple times that we work on the relationship without downgrading the treaty, it was ignored or otherwise shrugged off, which means to me that you had already made your decision. You said time and again that you had made your decision. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to interpret you telling me 'we have voted to downgrade our treaty' in any way other than you are planning on downgrading the treaty. Yes, you came to discuss it with us, and that is commendable, but in the end, you had already made your decision. It's pretty clear from past precedent that Polaris does not believe that unilaterally downgrading a treaty like this is okay, and I would expect you to be fully aware of that.

Additionally, let me assure you that the decision by TIO to downgrade the treaty was by no means the entire reason for the cancelation. No, there were other things, which I have conveyed to you in private, that contributed much more to our decision. The downgrade is merely something that should be addressed, because, as Random has stated, it's not okay.

Edited by Mergerberger II
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[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1314074867' post='2786656']
What's up with alliances thinking that they can just tell an ally that they've changed their treaty?
[/quote]
I don't understand but I wish it would stop. It seems to be the new fad, and it's a terrible one.

[quote name='Myworld' timestamp='1314076467' post='2786676']
Mergerberger, I would call what KahlanRahl stated as our people oked the downgrade so we could proceed to talk to Polar about it and look to having it at that type.

If Polar says "No to the downgrade." Then my guess is that TIO would re-evaluate the treaty farther or Polar would just say "Lets just cancel."

Seems you jumped the gun and didn't listen to your ally again.
[/quote]
Seems like you jumped the gun and are issuing judgement without fact. It's pretty simple really. TIO informed us that they had already voted to "downgrade" our treaty to an ODP and there was nothing we could do about it, even if we wanted to. If that is not true, then they made an error in their communication with us. Which wouldn't surprise me at all here as there has been quite a few errors on communication which added to this cancellation being necessary. I can't work off what an ally is planning to do, I have to work off what they inform us they are doing. I'm not a mind reader.

Let's not turn this into an argument though because it ultimately doesn't much matter. It highlights the communication issues that we experienced and further justifies my decision.

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[quote name='Timberland' timestamp='1314074328' post='2786646']
Good job TIO you're better off without NpO
[/quote]
It always gets me when someone says, "Congrats x alliance, you're better off without y alliance." TIO wont be any better off because TIO is a terrible alliance and is still allied to a bunch of equally terrible alliances.

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[quote name='RandomInterrupt' timestamp='1314079638' post='2786703']
I don't understand but I wish it would stop. It seems to be the new fad, and it's a terrible one.
[/quote]
Oh please don't tell me you honestly are thinking that the treaty itself was changed? Come on Random, you're better than that.

[quote name='RandomInterrupt' timestamp='1314079638' post='2786703']It highlights the communication issues that we experienced and further justifies my decision.
[/quote]
Which is exactly why the treaty didn't reflect the relationship we had.


[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1314080702' post='2786710']
I'm not even gonna bother reading this thread or getting involved in what may or may not be happening ... Just gotta say this is good for TIO - now, come back to White :awesome:
[/quote]
Now now, last time we were on white, we didn't exactly live very long. My official stance on that is "My bad"

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Skippy no one is talking about the text being changed. Once the intent has been changed and TIO's commitment had changed then the treaty, not the words has changed.

In this case we regard a great many of you as friends and genuinely wish you all the success and prosperity in the world, but a treaty is no longer viable. I intend on staying in touch with friends and remembering the good times we had as allies.

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[quote name='Tequila Mockingbird' timestamp='1314081227' post='2786713']
It always gets me when someone says, "Congrats x alliance, you're better off without y alliance." TIO wont be any better off because TIO is a terrible alliance and is still allied to a bunch of equally terrible alliances.
[/quote]

NO U

Is all I have to say to you :ph34r:

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