Impero's Game: The Truth About the Alleged Spying and Evidence of Deception

[Hereno]

Here's to hoping that enough foresight was given to change that data around before handing it all over. At least, that's my first thought with the assumption that everything in the OP is true.

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1295659730' post='2590095']
Or so you hope.
[/quote]
What exactly is going to happen? Do you really expect VE and its allies to call off this war and say "my bad"? This is the war everyone's been waiting a year for and nothing is going to stop it at this point.

Edited January 22, 2011 by Sandwich Controversy

[USMC123]

[quote name='keenu' timestamp='1295658745' post='2590012']
I think he understands that, he obviously changed the extension and re-uploaded them to clean the evidence.
[/quote]

He had to wash them twice?

[Archon]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1295659456' post='2590074']
Oh snap. RV just owned Impero and VE.
....

This was a sick, sick burn,....oh man never go on the bad side of RV.

There goes your "high ground" VE. Pretenses are lost, masks have fallen.
[/quote]

Sick burn implies RV insulted him really well. This might be a masterstroke, sure, but it's not a "sick burn"

hth

[Wad of Lint]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1295659772' post='2590101']
This is pretty funny. Everyone on Polaris's side of things immediately declares, "OMG! Look at that! It's definitely true! You are so bad, VE!" as if saying so makes it true. These screenshots could very, very easily be fabricated.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the claims of real/fake are being made based on battle lines, but it's pretty funny that those yelling that the screenshots are real actually expect this to have any effect on anyone on the other side.
[/quote]

If you're going to argue these are fabricated, are you willing to argue that perhaps the other ones were as well?

[GulagArchipelago]

Damn RV, you just became my hero again.

[der_ko]

[quote name='Wad of Lint' timestamp='1295658586' post='2589996']
Stings can also lead to entrapment, which is not legally acceptable. Bad example.
[/quote]
There is nothing illegal or unacceptable about "entrapment".

[The FSM]

[quote name='TheNeverender' timestamp='1295659075' post='2590040']
Even [i]if[/i] Impero set up Polar, that doesn't change the fact that the conversations detailed in the initial DoW still happened. Dabjobo was rather naive and, frankly, a little stupid (Sorry bud, but it's true) and he was the second in command of Polar while making those grievous errors.

Just because he may have been set up doesn't mean that he still took the actions he took when confronted with the situation. And, IIRC, it was those actions taken that motivated VE to war.
[/quote]

While I do agree with the first part I would have to raise issue with the second portion in light of the information brought up by RV. If you accept all of RV's information as valid then it shows an intent by VE to generally go to war with NpO. VE was motivated to go to war before Dajobo did what he did, his actions simply gave VE the excuse to do what they already wanted to do. If they actually wanted to sort things out without a conflict Im sure Impero and NpO could have worked something out.

If anything Dajobo has the bad luck of being the excuse for VE attacking NpO, if it wasnt Dajobo 'being naive' then something would have happened a few weeks from now and we would find ourselves in a similar situation.

[BlkAK47_002]

[quote name='Farrin Xies' timestamp='1295657107' post='2589879']
Hey, so all of the alliances that declared in support of VE and its allies... how does it feel to have gotten played?
[/quote]

This changes nothing, they knew it was a setup.

[Azaghul]

20:33 Chancy I should spy on MHA
20:33 Chancy Just to make them mad
20:33 Dajobo|NpO| nah they aren't the enemy
20:34 Dajobo|NpO| pick domeone worth spying on
20:35 Chancy Give me suggestions
20:36 Dajobo|NpO| VE or MK are the two who are heavily involved in world politics
20:36 Dajobo|NpO| anything that happens will come through them first

Doesn't make a lot of sense is this was a VE set-up from the start. Why would Dajobo needed to have guided Lennox to spy on VE?

Edited January 22, 2011 by Azaghul

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Corinan' timestamp='1295659738' post='2590097']
My favorite part was when everyone on VE's side started feeling pretty used for having supported them. Ya'll got played.
[/quote]

Even if this information is correct, at least Impero had the spine to create something and run with it. Something everybody else was incapable of doing. Instead we all sat around in a circle sucking our thumbs saying nothing more than: "No you go first!"

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Wad of Lint' timestamp='1295659897' post='2590109']
If you're going to argue these are fabricated, are you willing to argue that perhaps the other ones were as well?
[/quote]

Considering both sides dumped the same logs trying to prove different points initially, no it'd be kind of pointless to try.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1295659586' post='2590086']
Were it solely up to me, yes I'd roll on RV right now for posting our information publicly, how stupid can you get? We went to war with Polar over their getting it, posting it to the OWF is surely going to end well![/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Easy there big fellow! I'm not going anywhere.[/color]

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1295659275' post='2590054']
This isn't going to affect anything at this point.
[/quote]
As of 8 hours ago I know of more than a couple alliances that were on the fence, mostly cause they just could stomach fighting for NpO. The affect this may have is pushing some of those alliances towards NpO. One has to ask, "If they are willing to do this to NpO, whose next?"

If all that Lennox has said is true (I am still a skeptic) this war will end up defining the future of our world.

[The FSM]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1295659945' post='2590115']
20:33 Chancy I should spy on MHA
20:33 Chancy Just to make them mad
20:33 Dajobo|NpO| nah they aren't the enemy
20:34 Dajobo|NpO| pick domeone worth spying on
20:35 Chancy Give me suggestions
20:36 Dajobo|NpO| VE or MK are the two who are heavily involved in world politics
20:36 Dajobo|NpO| anything that happens will come through them first

Doesn't make a lot of sense is this was a VE set-up from the start.
[/quote]

Misdirection is a key element of espionage (and alliance politics for that matter)

[Archon]

[quote name='The Flying Scotsman' timestamp='1295659923' post='2590112']
While I do agree with the first part I would have to raise issue with the second portion in light of the information brought up by RV. If you accept all of RV's information as valid then it shows an intent by VE to generally go to war with NpO. VE was motivated to go to war before Dajobo did what he did, his actions simply gave VE the excuse to do what they already wanted to do. If they actually wanted to sort things out without a conflict Im sure Impero and NpO could have worked something out.

If anything Dajobo has the bad luck of being the excuse for VE attacking NpO, if it wasnt Dajobo 'being naive' then something would have happened a few weeks from now and we would find ourselves in a similar situation.
[/quote]

Under that logic, every single war on Planet Bob is because the aggressor had an intent to go to war with the defender. No one has an action done to their alliance that causes them to go "WELP, I am now compelled to go to war with you. There is literally no other way to resolve this, and I am actually being forced by some strange power."

You start a war because you want to. To imply otherwise is foolishness.

[Crymson]

[quote name='Wad of Lint' timestamp='1295659897' post='2590109']
If you're going to argue these are fabricated, are you willing to argue that perhaps the other ones were as well?
[/quote]

Let's see... am I going to believe a longtime government member of Polaris? Nope.

[PotFace]

As an artist, I can say that this topic has been truly inspirational to me, and I'd like to share with you a bit of the inspiration that I got by reading all of the responses which should keep going to page 30 before update at this rate:

[img]http://www.blackstonecommission.com/VE.png[/img]

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1295660006' post='2590124']
As of 8 hours ago I know of more than a couple alliances that were on the fence, mostly cause they just could stomach fighting for NpO. The affect this may have is pushing some of those alliances towards NpO. One has to ask, "If they are willing to do this to NpO, whose next?"

If all that Lennox has said is true (I am still a skeptic) this war will end up defining the future of our world.
[/quote]
I hope this happens.

[Crymson]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1295660006' post='2590124']
One has to ask, "If they are willing to do this to NpO, whose next?"
[/quote]

This made me burst out laughing. How long is it that you've been involved here? Either it's not long, or you're just being massively melodramatic.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='The Flying Scotsman' timestamp='1295660053' post='2590125']
Misdirection is a key element of espionage (and alliance politics for that matter)
[/quote]
Still doesn't explain why Dojobo would have taken the initiative to suggest MK or VE.

[Sulmar]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1295659586' post='2590086']
This may come as a suprise to you, depending on how recently you crawled out from under your rock, but I'm not the person in charge of my alliance, nor even my alliances military. Were it solely up to me, yes I'd roll on RV right now for posting our information publicly, how stupid can you get? We went to war with Polar over their getting it, posting it to the OWF is surely going to end well!

[/quote]
U mad?

[Crymson]

Also entertaining to me is that so many people *suddenly* find Rebel Virginia to be a credible source of critical thinking and information.

[Corinan]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1295659945' post='2590116']
Even if this information is correct, at least Impero had the spine to create something and run with it. Something everybody else was incapable of doing. Instead we all sat around in a circle sucking our thumbs saying nothing more than: "No you go first!"
[/quote]

Agreed. With cold calculation he manufactured a war with the sole intent of destroying an enemy he hated, and for that I salute him.

[supercoolyellow]

Look at the bright side VE. You're going to have a few less allies to keep comms up with, and defend in war, due to these recent events. Not many people like being used as you have just done to your allies.