Impero's Game: The Truth About the Alleged Spying and Evidence of Deception

[Ragashingo]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1295662431' post='2590305']
But that's not what happened, Dajobo took the initiative to tell him to spy on the "enemy", which was MK or VE, and then gave him advice on setting up a nation to do it.
[/quote]

If you read through the logs he never called VE or MK the enemy. All he said was that those two alliances were the important world powers. The only talk of an enemy provided by Dajobo is that he did not consider MHA to be one. Anything beyond that is simply your inference and not a fact.

[The MVP]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1295662654' post='2590319']
Convenient.
[/quote]

Umm, the latest updated version of mIRC doesn't auto-log. I would know because I used the older and newer version and refuse to go the newer version since I auto-log everything myself.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1295662785' post='2590326']
Umm, the latest updated version of mIRC doesn't auto-log. I would know because I used the older and newer version and refuse to go the newer version since I auto-log everything myself.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]No, it logs. My copy just expired and I'm unable to download another. So the few times I do get on IRC these days I use Chatzilla, which does not log. But I won't let facts get in the way of Crymson's irrational character attacks.[/color]

[Ragashingo]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1295662611' post='2590316']
So you're saying we should roll everyone?
[/quote]

I'm saying use some common sense and stop trying to pretend that backroom conversations of a non-serious nature don't happen all the time. The only difference here was that there was a whole heap of dishonest backstabbing and betrayal on Lennox and Impero's part that turned a casual conversation that started with "obviously I would love to see it but I cant condone spying so I will need to decline" into the assertion that Dajobo was running a spy op.

[Farnsworth]

In regard to the OP, surprising is one of the last words to come to mind.

[Choson]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1295662918' post='2590336']
[color="#0000FF"]No, it logs. My copy just expired and I'm unable to download another. So the few times I do get on IRC these days I use Chatzilla, which does not log. But I won't let facts get in the way of Crymson's irrational character attacks.[/color]
[/quote]

Why would we care about [i]your[/i] logs? We'd want Lennox and Dajobo's logs.

[Rebounder]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1295662654' post='2590319']
Convenient.
[/quote]

At first I found your posts dedicated toward defending Impero's outright aggressive action and blatant lie shocking, but then I realized you're politically forced to at this point. You want to obey the side that has graciously accepted you and offered you a spot on the winning coalition of future wars, but on the other hand your alliance in the past has not been the war-mongering type; if anything, you've been accused of being a moralist peace-monger, such as when you helped IRON achieve their peace following Karma.

So, the CB for this war has been fabricated, and the war is against what your alliance stands for, but admin forbid that you bite the hand that feeds you by not showing MK's jubilance for the war. I'd hate to be in your position right now. Just remember that further obedience is the best way out. Onward, Mushdoxia!

[Cairna]

[quote name='Ironfist' timestamp='1295659035' post='2590032']
You keep talking about cowardice, but at least they had the proverbial balls to declare war in the first place. Right or wrong, the war is here. I thought NSO would just be happy enough at that alone.
[/quote]
You're in GATO.

NSO's been in constant war since it's inception based on what it believes. Give me a break.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1295662748' post='2590323']
If you read through the logs he never called VE or MK the enemy. All he said was that those two alliances were the important world powers. The only talk of an enemy provided by Dajobo is that he did not consider MHA to be one. Anything beyond that is simply your inference and not a fact.
[/quote]

Oh comon that's really reaching man. "Don't spy on MHA they aren't the enemy" "Pick MK or VE instead" You gotta be pretty generous to not see that as characterizing us as the enemy.

[mhawk]

[quote name='White Chocolate' timestamp='1295661592' post='2590243']
Was there ever such a thing as "rule of law" on Planet Bob? No.

Might makes right, that's the only rule people really need to know.
The rest is preference.
[/quote]
I would describe situations like PC where we spent time outlining a case to their allies with evidence, isolating them. Then even with the full might of Q behind us did we just go in and destroy them? No, we went into talks and tired to resolve our issues (that pc viewed that as a break to come and hit us later is another story). Now it seems the greatest concern is if one can hit fast enough before people get to peacemode, nevermind negotiations ect.

[Zeta Defender]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1295662918' post='2590336']
[color="#0000FF"]No, it logs. My copy just expired and I'm unable to download another. So the few times I do get on IRC these days I use Chatzilla, which does not log. But I won't let facts get in the way of Crymson's irrational character attacks.[/color]
[/quote]

Chatzilla logs RV, it is just a little pain in the ass to set up and find the logs in Windows.

[Cairna]

[quote name='TheNeverender' timestamp='1295659075' post='2590040']
Even [i]if[/i] Impero set up Polar, that doesn't change the fact that the conversations detailed in the initial DoW still happened. Dabjobo was rather naive and, frankly, a little stupid (Sorry bud, but it's true) and he was the second in command of Polar while making those grievous errors.

Just because he may have been set up doesn't mean that he still took the actions he took when confronted with the situation. And, IIRC, it was those actions taken that motivated VE to war.
[/quote]

This changes stuff in that it shows malicious intent on VE's part to lie to get to Polar's throat. This matters because they do have mutual friends who were put in tough situations because of it.

Yes. Everyone wants war. Yes, war is often based off of lies. But VE's being called on their lie.

We might be on the losing side, but all that matters is that we're right. It's why I spent my career against the NPO. At least they knew how to cover it up.


[quote="Typoninja"]
Oh comon that's really reaching man. "Don't spy on MHA they aren't the enemy" "Pick MK or VE instead" You gotta be pretty generous to not see that as characterizing us as the enemy. [/quote]

Please don't use quotation marks ( " " ) if you plan on just heavily paraphrasing, and, quite frankly, misrepresenting.

Edited January 22, 2011 by Cairna

[Locke]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1295661492' post='2590236']
Not really, Polar never disputed the accuracy of the initial logs posted in the DoW, they simply disputed what they entailed (random !@#$%^&* rather than specific intent to harm).

If everybody agrees the evidence is accurate its not in doubt.
[/quote]
Well, what of Impero's screenshots? I seem to recall being told a week or two ago that screenshots in mIRC were worthless for being easily edited. So yeah, any piece of contested evidence is kind of useless when you make claims of inaccuracy, which is exactly what's happening.

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1295662212' post='2590287']
Unless he renamed the file 5 days ago, then no.
[/quote]
But he could have altered the screenshot!
Again, once you get into this territory of calling fake, nothing can be taken as true.

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1295662431' post='2590305']
But that's not what happened, Dajobo took the initiative to tell him to spy on the "enemy", which was MK or VE, and then gave him advice on setting up a nation to do it.
[/quote]
You said that Lennox depended on being pointed to VE for the plan to succeed. I showed that this was not the case.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1295663025' post='2590343']
Why would we care about [i]your[/i] logs? We'd want Lennox and Dajobo's logs.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]You've seen the screenshots. The logs for Lennox I cannot provide. They're lost, unfortunately, but logs are not the only type of evidence. From the other evidence provided it is quite easy to piece together the true story.[/color]

[Choson]

[quote name='Zeta Defender' timestamp='1295663241' post='2590360']
Chatzilla logs RV, it is just a little pain in the ass to set up and find the logs in Windows.
[/quote]
Not to mention that mIRC is just nag-ware and will let you use it even though the trial period expires.

[Ragashingo]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1295663157' post='2590354']
Oh comon that's really reaching man. "Don't spy on MHA they aren't the enemy" "Pick MK or VE instead" You gotta be pretty generous to not see that as characterizing us as the enemy.
[/quote]

Look, I agree that MK & VE being the enemy is the most likely interpretation, but it wasn't said. Do you want to stick to the facts here or should we just all make up whatever we want and the state it as a fact like Azaghul was doing?

Edited January 22, 2011 by Ragashingo

[Choson]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1295663293' post='2590367']
[color="#0000FF"]You've seen the screenshots. The logs for Lennox I cannot provide. They're lost, unfortunately, but logs are not the only type of evidence. From the other evidence provided it is quite easy to piece together the true story.[/color]
[/quote]
As stated before, screenshots can be faked and despite what you say, you've been known to be disingenuous, especially when you have an agenda to push.

You still haven't proved that the screenshots are real. And you still haven't proved [i]mens rea[/i].

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1295663354' post='2590375']
Not to mention that mIRC is just nag-ware and will let you use it even though the trial period expires.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]On my old computer, that was the case for over a thousand days. On my new one, no idea why, but it stopped working. Oh well.[/color]

[Earogema]

BELIEVE LENNOX WHEN YOU CHOOSE TO GO TO WAR

SAY LENNOX IS LYING WHEN HE SHOWS HE PLAYED YOU

Wow guys. I knew you weren't the sharpest knives, but that's a great tactic you got there.

Edited January 22, 2011 by Earogema

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1295663514' post='2590387']
As stated before, screenshots can be faked and despite what you say, you've been known to be disingenuous, especially when you have an agenda to push.

You still haven't proved that the screenshots are real. And you still haven't proved [i]mens rea[/i].
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I don't care about your legal terms or nonsense, and I doubt you do to. Such would be unfitting for you. But, even if I am biased, you know I am honest. If I thought the evidence to be false it would never have been posted. My word is good.[/color]

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Earogema' timestamp='1295663595' post='2590391']
BELIEVE LENNOX WHEN YOU CHOOSE TO GO TO WAR

SAY LENNOX IS LYING WHEN HE SHOWS HE PLAYED YOU

Wow guys. I knew you weren't the sharpest knives, but that's a great tactic you got there.
[/quote]

Believing Rebel Virginia is also a brilliant idea.

[Jake Liebenow]

Lennox still being on VE's AA is proof enough these logs are true.

kthxbai

[Azaghul]

[quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1295662748' post='2590323']
If you read through the logs he never called VE or MK the enemy. All he said was that those two alliances were the important world powers. The only talk of an enemy provided by Dajobo is that he did not consider MHA to be one. Anything beyond that is simply your inference and not a fact.
[/quote]
Given how the conversation flowed I think the inference is pretty clear. Why would he suggest MK and VE after saying that he shouldn't spy on someone who isn't "the enemy", if he didn't mean to say that they were the enemy?

[Choson]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1295663625' post='2590394']
[color="#0000FF"]I don't care about your legal terms or nonsense, and I doubt you do to. Such would be unfitting for you. But, even if I am biased, you know I am honest. If I thought the evidence to be false it would never have been posted. My word is good.[/color]
[/quote]
Yes, I do care about the legal jargon that you seem to disregard so flippantly. For someone who supposedly cares about the truth and claims such a high standard of impartiality, you should be concerned about them as well.

And no, I know you're disingenuous, especially since you [b]just[/b] said you're biased, and yet, you [b]claim[/b] to be impartial. Once again, you've undone yourself. Great job! Bravo!

[Earogema]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1295663694' post='2590398']
Believing Rebel Virginia is also a brilliant idea.
[/quote]
Lennox kinda was the first post in the thread champ.

Also, prove to me a single instance where R_V has ever lied. Even one. I honestly can't think of one.