Impero's Game: The Truth About the Alleged Spying and Evidence of Deception

[Beefspari]

[quote name='youwish959' timestamp='1295661575' post='2590242']
Hola.

None of this changes the fact that you provided screenshots from your private forum to setup Dajobo.
[/quote]
Hola.

Nor does it change the fact that Dajobo happily accepted and discussed information that was taken from VE as spied information.

[Viridia]

Oh dear oh dear. There are so many things wrong with this thread it's unbelievable. Let us start with the fact that not a day ago, all of the Entente's "detractors" were arguing about how little credit Lennox has, how he is a liar and a con artist, and how is not to be trusted. Today, because of some screenshots that have been dubiously uploaded and reuploaded going through presumably several format changes, you now all take Lennox as credible. You also take Rebel Virginia as a credible and possibly unbiased source(?), and while he may have some credibility he is nowhere near unbiased.

That glaring error in logic aside, let's move on to the idea that this was a setup from the start.

[b]20:33 Chancy I should spy on MHA
20:33 Dajobo|NpO| nah they aren't the enemy
20:36 Dajobo|NpO| VE or MK are the two who are heavily involved in world politics[/b]

These logs have not been tampered with; they've been confirmed by both sides of the war and the individuals involved. Unless the Entente was somehow magically able to cognitively suggest that Dajobo ask Lennox to spy on VE instead of MHA, there is no way that this could have been a setup. Let's look at a different scenario for a second. If Dajobo had gone ahead with MHA, Lennox would be spying on MHA. He may or may not have come clean. But if he did, would all of you be screaming setup? Because it's no different. And that right there should show just how idiotic, biased, frustratingly and frighteningly lacking in logical, and possibly mentally unstable you all are. The serious lapses in logic, of course, have come from both sides, but they seem to be perpetuated by the Entente's anti-fan club.

I'd also like to point out that because of the above evidence, there is no way that this could have been entrapment even if it was a setup, which all points say it was not. Lennox contacted VE first, not the other way around. Dajobo willingly and actively tried to obtain information from Lennox, and because of that the CB is certainly still valid, I would even argue to say a sound argument for any of you who have any semblance of training in logic and reasoning, and your whines of an evil Viridian Entente become nothing more than childish.

[Ragashingo]

[quote name='General Scipio' timestamp='1295661437' post='2590226']
I love that I now know Impero is a mind reader and that he knew that sending Lennox to NpO saying he wanted to spy on MHA would make Polar tell them to spy on VE instead. Yeah, that makes total sense.
[/quote]

I figured the correct order is:

1. Lennox and Dajobo have their conversation where Lennox asks which alliance he should spy on
2. Lennox picks VE based on Dajobo's suggestion then approaches Impero
3. Lennox and Impero make their deal to betray Polar
4. Lennox comes back to Dajobo with the VE screenshots provided to him by Imperio

Going by that set of events nobody needs to be a mind reader and Impero still planned the war while Dajobo is still only guilty of have an offhand non-serious conversation.

[Silent Spectre]

I don't get why people are still going on about the screenshots and logs. I mean, the world is at war. It's unfortunate, but that's the state of Planet Bob today. Whether what VE says is true, or what NpO says is true, doesn't really matter at this point. The point will be made on the battlefield. So, in my opinion, onward with the war, and let's leave the CBs behind.

[ChimpMasterFlash]

**whistles**

Doesn't change anything does it? I still see radiation levels going... (church singing voice) HIGHER AND HIGH--ER!!

[Baltus]

You know, anyone can say that the other side is wrong. It's really not that hard. I can go around yelling "FAKE. FAKE. FAKE." all day, but that sounds pretty dull. On top of that, Polaris and RV are obviously not impartial. It's insane to think they are. Are you going to say that the logs Impero presented are all fake? That's next to impossible, considering this thread was made about 30 minutes ago.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1295661778' post='2590257']
I figured the correct order is:

1. Lennox and Dajobo have their conversation where Lennox asks which alliance he should spy on
2. Lennox picks VE based on Dajobo's suggestion then approaches Impero
3. Lennox and Impero make their deal to betray Polar
4. Lennox comes back to Dajobo with the VE screenshots provided to him by Imperio

Going by that set of events nobody needs to be a mind reader and Impero still planned the war while Dajobo is still only guilty of have an offhand non-serious conversation.
[/quote]
An offhand non-serious conversation in which he accepted spied information he believed to be stolen directly from VE, then discussed it casually, indicating he was perfectly happy with this.

This "innocent talk with friends" excuse just isn't flying. Once he reached the point where he was discussing warchest information he was way past the point where he was having a "non-serious conversation," and well into the point where he was reading and using spied information.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='OsRavan' timestamp='1295661605' post='2590246']
Heh, wasn't Daj saying the same thing about Lennox right up until Lennox played him RV? That he could trust him? He was a friend? etc? I would say Lennox seems to have a track record of abusing that sort of trust to create chaos.

Plus as an 'objective observer' you have to admit the absence of these logs are a bit suspicious. If they say what lennox claim's they said... I have a hard time imagining him not logging them or saving them.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Nothing suspicious about not having logs. I no longer auto-log everything myself. I cannot blame others for not doing something that I myself don't.[/color]

[TheyCallMeJeezy]

meh, good read

this changes nothing though. I love war and you can't take this away from me!

[Wad of Lint]

Folks, it's easy enough for Impero and Lennox to have had a prior conversation to the ones posted. Before you say "BUT HE HAD TO TELL IMPERO HE WAS LENNOX". Yea. He did. Look at how many handles he used, I doubt his own mother would recognize him off the bat.

However, I think we can all agree there's not indisputable proof that this did, in fact, occur. Only a hunch. Instead, we can look at the evidence provided It is quite clear that VE pushed for this to become a CB. No diplomacy, helping the spy, giving him access, the list goes on. To me, fishing for a reason to attack someone is a pretty agressive action in and of itself.

No matter how you slice it, several people screwed the pooch on this one and got caught red-handed.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1295661955' post='2590269']
[color="#0000FF"]Nothing suspicious about not having logs. I no longer auto-log everything myself. I cannot blame others for not doing something that I myself don't.[/color]
[/quote]

[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97492"]Your OP is a lie. Stop trying, I posted the proof in its own thread.[/url]

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1295661778' post='2590257']
I figured the correct order is:

1. Lennox and Dajobo have their conversation where Lennox asks which alliance he should spy on
2. Lennox picks VE based on Dajobo's suggestion then approaches Impero
3. Lennox and Impero make their deal to betray Polar
4. Lennox comes back to Dajobo with the VE screenshots provided to him by Imperio

Going by that set of events nobody needs to be a mind reader and Impero still planned the war while Dajobo is still only guilty of have an offhand non-serious conversation.
[/quote]

Second in commands of alliances don't get to have off hand conversations about spying. Welcome to the burdens of leadership.

[Banksy]

[quote name='mompson' timestamp='1295661186' post='2590210']
All right so we learn that you can re-name a file sprog.Coldfront.log

BTW great job Impero you really crafted another lie real quick.
[/quote]
Unless he renamed the file 5 days ago, then no.

[The MVP]

[quote name='Baltus' timestamp='1295661839' post='2590261']
You know, anyone can say that the other side is wrong. It's really not that hard. I can go around yelling "FAKE. FAKE. FAKE." all day, but that sounds pretty dull. On top of that, Polaris and RV are obviously not impartial. It's insane to think they are. Are you going to say that the logs Impero presented are all fake? That's next to impossible, considering this thread was made about 30 minutes ago.
[/quote]

See this is the thing, the evidence Ardus provided to the public was accepted by all not because it [i]was[/i] true, but because people including myself [i]wanted[/i] it to be true. The quick mobilization of Polaris based on the evidence didn't sucker FOK/iFOK/PC and friends in, they wanted to believe it was true so they saw it was true and rolled in. When in reality, and I think most of them realized, this CB was concocted from the get-go.

Is RV impartial? No, but it is well known well before this war that VE wanted to hit Polaris on any CB to just get them by to see them destroyed (and oh how I love to see Polaris destroyed). Yet, with all this said, at the end of the day, fact is Impero is not to be trusted and neither is VE who have a history of all this. They remind me of Ephriam Grey, will make up anything just to get things done.

After all, didn't MK who is tied to VE quote Machiavelli?

Edited January 22, 2011 by The MVP

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1295661701' post='2590251']
Hola.

Nor does it change the fact that Dajobo happily accepted and discussed information that was taken from VE as spied information.
[/quote]

True. However, this makes it much easier for alliances that feel that NpO is being treated poorly to rally to their flag. It also cements my contention that VE's attack was offensive, not defensive.

[OsRavan]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1295661955' post='2590269']
[color="#0000FF"]Nothing suspicious about not having logs. I no longer auto-log everything myself. I cannot blame others for not doing something that I myself don't.[/color]
[/quote]

Even if I didn't auto log everything, a conversation like the one you are describing is the sort you make a *point* to log. Especially if... as lennox appears to have been... you are running back and forth trying to create drama and excitement. That log is one you make a *point* to save. As he made a *point* to save the logs of Daj being implicated in spying. This wasn't a routine every day Convo Lennox was supposedly having.

And as I said before, considering this all started because Daj trusted Lennox and considered him a friend... I have to take claims of "I know it to be true because I trust him" with a large grain of salt. I'm not saying *you* can't accept it at face value. But surely you can see why others have a hard time doing so?

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Wad of Lint' timestamp='1295662079' post='2590278']
Folks, it's easy enough for Impero and Lennox to have had a prior conversation to the ones posted. Before you say "BUT HE HAD TO TELL IMPERO HE WAS LENNOX". Yea. He did. Look at how many handles he used, I doubt his own mother would recognize him off the bat.

However, I think we can all agree there's not indisputable proof that this did, in fact, occur. Only a hunch. Instead, we can look at the evidence provided It is quite clear that VE pushed for this to become a CB. No diplomacy, helping the spy, giving him access, the list goes on. To me, fishing for a reason to attack someone is a pretty agressive action in and of itself.

No matter how you slice it, several people screwed the pooch on this one and got caught red-handed.
[/quote]

Looks to me more like a desperate attempt to gain the support of swing alliances. You won't fool me.

[Ragashingo]

[quote name='Viridia' timestamp='1295661764' post='2590256']
I'd also like to point out that because of the above evidence, there is no way that this could have been entrapment even if it was a setup, which all points say it was not. Lennox contacted VE first, not the other way around. Dajobo willingly and actively tried to obtain information from Lennox, and because of that the CB is certainly still valid, I would even argue to say a sound argument for any of you who have any semblance of training in logic and reasoning, and your whines of an evil Viridian Entente become nothing more than childish.
[/quote]

Could you please quote and bold the part of the logs that Dajobo actively tried to obtain information from Lennox? He was sent information by Lennox (supposedly working for Impero at that point), but I cannot find where Dajobo actually asked for it. Quote that section for me and your argument might have some merit. Right now it isn't an even argument at all, but a lie.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='zzzptm' timestamp='1295660302' post='2590146']
Maybe he kinda likes MHA and kinda doesn't like MK or VE?
[/quote]
Yup, that's clear, as he told him to spy on us.

[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1295660375' post='2590151']
He chose VE as a target initially and Dajobo's poor choice of words was a coincidence?
[/quote]
Based on what Impero has had to say that doesn't appear to be the case.

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1295661599' post='2590244']
It's really not hard to imagine Lennox saying he changed his mind and wanted to spy on VE. He didn't need guidance. "Oh wait, MHA, that would be stupid, they're not worth spying on, so I'll spy on VE." I mean, the only way that wouldn't work is if Dajobo outright refused to accept anything, at which point the target is moot.
[/quote]
But that's not what happened, Dajobo took the initiative to tell him to spy on the "enemy", which was MK or VE, and then gave him advice on setting up a nation to do it.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1295662258' post='2590289']
True. However, this makes it much easier for alliances that feel that NpO is being treated poorly to rally to their flag. It also cements my contention that VE's attack was offensive, not defensive.
[/quote]
Thank you. I hope more come to this conclusion.

[CelesteA]

Well, this has been in interesting read.

[Ragashingo]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1295662187' post='2590284']
Second in commands of alliances don't get to have off hand conversations about spying. Welcome to the burdens of leadership.
[/quote]

I think it's far more likely that every serious CN leader (and second in command!) has had at least one off hand conversation about spying.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1295662534' post='2590313']
I think it's far more likely that every serious CN leader (and second in command!) has had at least one off hand conversation about spying.
[/quote]

So you're saying we should roll everyone?

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1295662165' post='2590283']
[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97492"]Your OP is a lie. Stop trying, I posted the proof in its own thread.[/url]
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]If I thought it were a lie it would not have been posted. You may be right, to some extent about Lennox, but I know him well enough to know that the information he has provided me with is quite accurate. You cannot deny the fact that you were actively working with Lennox.[/color]

[Crymson]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1295661955' post='2590269']
[color="#0000FF"]Nothing suspicious about not having logs. I no longer auto-log everything myself.[/color]
[/quote]

That's convenient.

Edited January 22, 2011 by Crymson