brucemania Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Brucemania and the rest of the Pacifican spin-doctors, the problem at hand does not lie in the fact that The Phoenix Federation was pre-empted, if you reside outside of MI6. It is a viable strategy in war to engage a target before they can engage you, and with the treaty between MI6 and TPF, it isn't far-fetched to have believed they could have entered the fray on their own. Anyone who argues otherwise is a horrible strategist. Where the problem lies is that Oculus, an bloc consisting of numerous alliances, filled with hundreds upon hundreds of nations, that dwarf TPF in size and strength, could not have chosen a more appropriate aggressor. Literally anyone in Oculus, save for Pacifica, could have waged war against TPF and the reaction from the community at-large would have been significantly less "hostile". But no, instead of having a mutual respect for ones past comrade, you planted the sword firmly in the back of a worn warrior who simply exhausted all their resources over the years helping prop your alliance up. That is where the problem lies and to spin it any other way is to show a lack of maturity and respect on the battlefield. Frankly, any alliance that holds a treaty with you at this point outside of Oculus needs to do some internal posturing and realize that your loyalties lie thin. if the problem is not the pre emption then why the crying of ... OH we burned for you blah blah blah .. they choose the path and now maybe should accept the consenquence of thier decisions like NPO has in the past through Karma DH and so forth .... we all know this is just propoganda to try and weaken our side and bloc to try and break and gain sympathy. Once MI6 can realise this then maybe they themeselves along with thier allies can actually politic in a righteous direction instead of being spinners.... and for the record Spin Doctors are a great band :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonator21 Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Don't talk strategy to MI6ers. That's not what they want. They want tears. They want everyone to pat them on the head and say "it's alright widdle guy. Dem mean men ain't gonna bother you no more." Then they'll go back to posting inane threads and buying loads of infra. Just like every other neutral. For anyone contemplating MI6 treaties, remember that you can be someone's handhold against the crash of the waves, but never be anyone's crutch. MI6 will always love crutches. See their love of talk over action. Ex, The Sengoku Spy Thread I feel like that's the appropriate response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellBade Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) if the problem is not the pre emption then why the crying of ... OH we burned for you blah blah blah .. they choose the path and now maybe should accept the consenquence of thier decisions like NPO has in the past through Karma DH and so forth .... we all know this is just propoganda to try and weaken our side and bloc to try and break and gain sympathy. Once MI6 can realise this then maybe they themeselves along with thier allies can actually politic in a righteous direction instead of being spinners.... and for the record Spin Doctors are a great band :) I don't need to propagandize anything. Neutral parties have made their concerns affirmed in this thread already. Edited October 10, 2015 by MitchellBade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucemania Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 I don't need to propagandize anything. Neutral parties have made their concerns affirmed in this thread already. magic word is nuetral ... if so nuetral why even get involved in the discussion .. though i see alot of MI6 or TPF posts here ... seems to me they are very nuetral? as they are doing the sympathy spinning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duderonomy Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 I feel like that's the appropriate response. If Sisyphus needs me to throw a shoulder behind his boulder, you better believe that I will be there. But he better be pushing as well. You guys would cry until I showed up, and then wander off leaving me holding the rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerschbs Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Don't talk strategy to MI6ers. That's not what they want. They want tears. They want everyone to pat them on the head and say "it's alright widdle guy. Dem mean men ain't gonna bother you no more." Then they'll go back to posting inane threads and buying loads of infra. Just like every other neutral. For anyone contemplating MI6 treaties, remember that you can be someone's handhold against the crash of the waves, but never be anyone's crutch. MI6 will always love crutches. See their love of talk over action. Ex, The Sengoku Spy Thread Once again a swing and a miss Dude. I'm far angrier over this as a former NPO ally from GATO than I am over us being pre-empted. I was there for multiple wars where TPF fought for NPO. I've been allied to both of them for years. Like Hoo said, this is just incredibly distasteful. With the sheer power of Oculus literally anyone in your bloc could have done this, and NPO could have answered the counter and then you would have a legal chain and most of the world wouldn't have batted an eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucemania Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Once again a swing and a miss Dude. I'm far angrier over this as a former NPO ally from GATO than I am over us being pre-empted. I was there for multiple wars where TPF fought for NPO. I've been allied to both of them for years. Like Hoo said, this is just incredibly distasteful. With the sheer power of Oculus literally anyone in your bloc could have done this, and NPO could have answered the counter and then you would have a legal chain and most of the world wouldn't have batted an eye. Only distasteful when using nostalgia to get sympathy .. specially when your moniker says MI6 which has no ties to NPO for such reasons. Using the nostalgia of the former NPO and TPF relationship for your own gains i find is more distasteful than the events of today. And as for Oculus yes anyone could of done whatever but the leaders decided that it would be a multi AA event rather than done on a individual basis. Sorry to make your counters so complicated and maybe your pissed that you can not counter one individual and actually have to rethink and move another direction. The past is the past and this is a new world .. suck it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyster Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Distasetful isn't the act of preempting your best ally you ever had and dropped few months ago for totally legit reasons (no irony). Distasetful is your e-laweyering and lack of ability to suck it up and say "yeah it sucks but hey at least we got decent fighters as oponents". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvon Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 And this coming from a man that is a member of a AA that got declared on over crap .. that NPO actually was first in and got curbstomped over .. You guys try so fucking hard to wash your hands of all blame. lmao .. Something else NG sits idly by allowing .. Again makes me feel we should be watching our backs pretty close too .... We have, afterall, been talking to MI6 too about increased relations just like TPF .. So we must have put ourselves in the path of Oculus by now. And as it is clearly stated, Oculus acts as a whole and with no individual care - so thus, we are completely vulnerable to the supremacy clause ... We know not to be surprised when it happens anyways .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duderonomy Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) Nah, Rayvon, NSO was smart enough to realize that treatying MI6 would put them on a collision course with NG. It helps that our alliances actually communicate with each other. Seems not to have happened with NPO & TPF. Edited October 10, 2015 by Duderonomy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvon Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) Nah, Rayvon, NSO was smart enough to realize that treatying MI6 would put them on a collision course with NG. It helps that our alliances actually communicate with each other. Seems not to have happened with NPO & TPF. So as it was for NPO-TPF, it is for us. We go your path or no path - under your foot, and in Grata's sights ... Gotcha .. I'll keep that in mind in post-war times ... Edited October 10, 2015 by Rayvon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 And as for Oculus yes anyone could of done whatever but the leaders decided that it would be a multi AA event rather than done on a individual basis. So a shepherd has been rounding up his flock of sheep. So whose your shepherd NPO? :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duderonomy Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 So as it was for NPO-TPF, it is for us. We go your path or no path - under your foot, and in Grata's sights ... Gotcha .. I'll keep that in mind in post-war times ... Well, I mean, if you want to kick us to the curb for an AA that we are openly hostile to and that would happily let you fight for them, then fine, do what you want to do. I just remember someone from NSO asking about MI6 receiving a chorus of "#$%# MI6". Doesn't get much clearer than that. I'm not gov, so I don't know what would've happened, but I know they didn't want you involved, otherwise you would have gotten an "OK, sure". NSO gov made their own choice on their own. They sought NG's opinion out of respect for our mutual friendship. Does that mean they relied on it completely? No, but I hope it had some impact on their decision-making process. I don't know what would've happened in the other direction. Given that both NPO and NG burned for NSO in 2013, I thought you guys would be happier that we all stayed friends, rather than seeking ties to an AA that has criticized NG for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Are we actually using the narrative that NPO and NG burned for NSO and weren't entirely complicit in the very actions that NSO were attacked for?Because I think we all know that NPO and NG were only kept out of the initial declarations for the same reason that all of Oculus came down on MI6 -- it was just a lot easier that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kiloist Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 I'm the real victim here.. I've gotta fight my friends that I once fought alongside with against NPO 2 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varianz Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Who the fuck would have ever guessed that TPF would cause an argument between NSOers and NGers christ these really are the end times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hitchcock Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Well, I mean, if you want to kick us to the curb for an AA that we are openly hostile to and that would happily let you fight for them, then fine, do what you want to do. I just remember someone from NSO asking about MI6 receiving a chorus of "#$%# MI6". Doesn't get much clearer than that. I'm not gov, so I don't know what would've happened, but I know they didn't want you involved, otherwise you would have gotten an "OK, sure". NSO gov made their own choice on their own. They sought NG's opinion out of respect for our mutual friendship. Does that mean they relied on it completely? No, but I hope it had some impact on their decision-making process. I don't know what would've happened in the other direction. Given that both NPO and NG burned for NSO in 2013, I thought you guys would be happier that we all stayed friends, rather than seeking ties to an AA that has criticized NG for a long time. I think what you're missing is that NG will continue to be criticized... Puppet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Who the $%&@ would have ever guessed that TPF would cause an argument between NSOers and NGers christ these really are the end timesAnd with Rayvon having sympathy towards TPF. I'm pretty sure I gave that guy a stroke one time just asking him to be nicer to TPF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duderonomy Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Who the $%&@ would have ever guessed that TPF would cause an argument between NSOers and NGers christ these really are the end times Talk to NG gov and they'd tell you that I'm an idiot and order me to stop posting. I'm a believer in open communication in relationships because it prevents misunderstandings. You guys are welcome to make your concerns at the forums or query the Tri. They do not post to the OWF unless they have literally nothing better to do. I think what you're missing is that NG will continue to be criticized... Puppet Aren't you the guy that tried to masquerade as NG gov? I thought you were ZIed somewhere. And as I said above, this is all me, baby. Every minute of it. NG gov complain about my posting enough already. I stand by my assertion that NSO has nothing to worry about with this declaration, but I'm not gov, so I barely get told anything. Talk to someone that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabonnobar Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Given that both NPO and NG burned for NSO in 2013 Are you shitting me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Holton Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) Are you !@#$ting me. Luckily, I stumbled upon this page just in time. I shall bask in this moment of realization. Something on topic: Yay war. Edited October 10, 2015 by Master Holton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xantha Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 This has nothing to do with propaganda, and everything to do with conduct that reminds an oldtimer of the pre-karma NPO once more rearing its head. /me cues Darth Vadar theme music Karma should have finished the job and turned NPO into !@#$@#$ glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) Hit by two folks from NPO, the alliance I spent most of my career in this game burning to the ground in support of. You guys could have at least had someone else hit us if you had a shred of class. You chose your friends. Not our fault they're our enemies. Worst people on earth.. Frenemies. They've clearly chosen their sides and yet beg for mercy and tempt guilt while exchanging blows with you while they defend their 'friends'. Sorry TPF. You know where your allegiances would put you, fault your FA. Consequences were drawn by you. You were a loyal past ally, but you're clearly not the same people now as you were then and your stance towards us radically changed. The time has come. The bridge burns to cinders. Yes, we are so evil.. for hunting the friends of our enemies who were once our friends even though we did not put them in their position. Waiting to see TPF take responsibility for its choices and acknowledge the consequences are theirs to embrace. Also.. which one of my enemies must I send funds to, to get them to grow fat enough that I can actually participate in this war. My lack of targets is disheartening. Edited October 10, 2015 by Maelstrom Vortex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC123 Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Anyone else remember the Order of the Orders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 I do. What's your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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