Unknown Smurf Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 lol pathetic .. As much as I loathe TPF, this is just ... Pathetic .. And NG is a willing part of this ..... Awesomesauce guys .. I guess we should watch our backs too or we'll have your boots running up them ... Never thought we would agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucemania Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 imagine thinking Karma and DH-NPO mean TPF are entitled to never get hit by NPO ever or do people think that TPF actually fought hard in DisOrder god forbid reality and fantasy .. always two sides to a story even though there is one book cover it seems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonator21 Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) I can respect this Gibsonator definitely... there is no probs with this ... what i can not respect is the crying that we are not allowed to attack a AA that we may have had as allies in the past and even by our own admission we consider loyal and all for when they stood beside us. Then turning around and saying well we had not right too because of it. We dont have that peice of paper no more and unfortunetly it is what it is today. NPO went one way and TPF went another BOTH knowing what may happen in the future .. we hate it they hate it but why cry about it. After the war maybe the leaders of that time can sit and say what they need too .. that to me is the logical way to go. ? You have a right to, certainly. Some people wouldn't excercise that right, some would. Pre-empting them serves no purpose if you hold them in high regard - either you wait a few days for them to come in and counter, or they don't come in at all and they're preserved. But you just said "screw that" and kicked them anyway. It is what it is, I didn't expect anything less from you guys. Anyone who is surprised by this isn't paying attention. Edited October 10, 2015 by Gibsonator21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Hoo III Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 I can respect this Gibsonator definitely... there is no probs with this ... what i can not respect is the crying that we are not allowed to attack a AA that we may have had as allies in the past and even by our own admission we consider loyal and all for when they stood beside us. Then turning around and saying well we had not right too because of it. We dont have that peice of paper no more and unfortunetly it is what it is today. NPO went one way and TPF went another BOTH knowing what may happen in the future .. we hate it they hate it but why cry about it. After the war maybe the leaders of that time can sit and say what they need too .. that to me is the logical way to go. ? I think you're missing the point. No one is saying that NPO has "no right" to attack an alliance they don't hold a treaty with. What does rub people the wrong way is that this was not necessary and since you DO have a long history with TPF, it is surprising that you would have signed off on this. There is nothing strategic about this and appears to be done "because you can" or "for the lulz" which is something that other alliances in Oculus are expected to do (which is why they received zero flack), but not you guys. You guys are supposedly above such behavior ... or at least used to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucemania Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 You have a right to, certainly. Some people wouldn't excercise that right, some would. Pre-empting them serves no purpose if you hold them in high regard - either you wait a few days for them to come in and counter, or they don't come in at all and they're preserved. But you just said "screw that" and kicked them anyway. It is what it is, I didn't expect anything less from you guys. Anyone who is surprised by this isn't paying attention. Could of been that way yes but in hindsight what is the right thing to do ... if they defend MI6 then they attack NG maybe ... so what happens NPO counters regardless ...plus i am sure many more scenarios ... the one thing i think would of determined the best course is take the option of a TPF counter out by getting as many nations in anarchy before they could do any counter ... but then what do i know .. that would of been a Oculus decision not just a NPO decision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Hmmm it's almost like people pressured NPO to change after Karmaand now people are mad that NPO is... different?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucemania Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 I think you're missing the point. No one is saying that NPO has "no right" to attack an alliance they don't hold a treaty with. What does rub people the wrong way is that this was not necessary and since you DO have a long history with TPF, it is surprising that you would have signed off on this. There is nothing strategic about this and appears to be done "because you can" or "for the lulz" which is something that other alliances in Oculus are expected to do (which is why they received zero flack), but not you guys. You guys are supposedly above such behavior ... or at least used to be. Simply Van (whom as a long time player we all respect) ... this is a Oculus decision and not just NPO ..simple and easy .. i am sure you have been in coalitions or blocs in the past where the majority makes the final decsion and even though you may not agree or are saddened by it ..you go with your allies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Moon Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 I think you're missing the point. No one is saying that NPO has "no right" to attack an alliance they don't hold a treaty with. What does rub people the wrong way is that this was not necessary and since you DO have a long history with TPF, it is surprising that you would have signed off on this. There is nothing strategic about this and appears to be done "because you can" or "for the lulz" which is something that other alliances in Oculus are expected to do (which is why they received zero flack), but not you guys. You guys are supposedly above such behavior ... or at least used to be. Summed it up really nicely. Over a long enough time frame, pretty much all allies will eventually diverge in their FA paths and risk ending up on opposite sides of a war. Treaty chains might even lead to them fighting even if they'd strongly prefer not too. It's a bit different to declare a war against a non-threat and then pre-empt their even less threatening ally that you recently dropped. Maybe I was wrong and Oculus really is going to turn on C&G before DBDC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) imagine thinking Karma and DH-NPO mean TPF are entitled to never get hit by NPO ever or do people think that TPF actually fought hard in DisOrder Brown nosing NPO for theft forgiveness I see? All the fluff regarding the "we took different paths, so was a chance of it happening, they knew it and we knew it. But it really does pain us so to do it". That's all well and good if it was due to chaining, but it wasn't it was a preemptive hit. They chose to hit an old ally for the sake of it. Edited October 10, 2015 by the rebel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucemania Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) Summed it up really nicely. Over a long enough time frame, pretty much all allies will eventually diverge in their FA paths and risk ending up on opposite sides of a war. Treaty chains might even lead to them fighting even if they'd strongly prefer not too. It's a bit different to declare a war against a non-threat and then pre-empt their even less threatening ally that you recently dropped. Maybe I was wrong and Oculus really is going to turn on C&G before DBDC. ummm i dont think i see where anyone turned on anyone as there is no paperwork to say they were or are allies ... Edited October 10, 2015 by brucemania Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucemania Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Brown nosing NPO for theft forgiveness I see? All the fluff regarding the "we took different paths, so was a chance of it happening, they knew it and we knew it. But it really does pain us so to do it". That's all well and good if it was due to chaining, but it wasn't it was a preemptive hit. They chose to hit an old ally for the sake of it. i refer to my video post :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Brown nosing NPO for theft forgiveness I see?This and Myth's "weird infatuation" comment would hold a lot more weight if I weren't simultaneously paying -- well, to the extent I'm capable -- on the debt that I owe as well as still maintaining that I think Scourge is a fucking prick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayser Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 ummm i dont think i see where anyone turned on anyone as there is no paperwork to say they were or are allies ... At least we know the lines you'll use when you do turn on them. "Wait what, no we cancelled a couple months ago its perfectly fine to destroy them." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Virginia Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) Bah. I fail to see the surprise here. NPO has never had any concept of loyalty or honor. Though they might loudly trumpet there virtues, should you seek to find them yourself you will come up empty. TPF may very well have burned for NPO countless times over, only to be discarded when convenient and later attacked to endear themselves to their new "friends." Such blatant opportunism is one of the reasons I chose to depart. Men of respectable principle had no place in the NPO of old, nor would it seem the NPO of today. Edited October 10, 2015 by Rebel Virginia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 i refer to my video post :) I will watch it when you preemptive strike STA, as I like eating popcorn during a film :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucemania Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 At least we know the lines you'll use when you do turn on them. "Wait what, no we cancelled a couple months ago its perfectly fine to destroy them." And agian whom did we turn on ? ... did you expect that because we had past relations with TPF that NPO should not have been invovled with our bloc ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucemania Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Bah. I fail to see the surprise here. NPO has never had any concept of loyalty or honor. Though they might loudly trumpet there virtues, should you seek to find them yourself you will come up empty. TPF may very well have burned for NPO countless times over, only to be discarded when convenient and later attacked to endear themselves to their new "friends." Such blatant opportunism is one of the reasons I chose to depart. Men of respectable principle had no place in the NPO of old, nor would it seem the NPO of today. And this coming from a man that is a member of a AA that got declared on over crap .. that NPO actually was first in and got curbstomped over .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Cyvole Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 I like the MI6 members that have less butthurt. By now, haven't we all been at the end of a curbstomp? One where we've been dogpiled? If not then you haven't been around long enough. Joined MI6 roughly four days ago because of our (then) impending doom and I'm ecstatic about the war. But I was a TPF ally from 2007-2013 and saw them burn far too many times for Pacifica to receive this bullshit treatment from them. That is what made me angry, not my newfound service in Her Magesty's Secret Service and the pixel burning that will ensue because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canik Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 I think you're missing the point. No one is saying that NPO has "no right" to attack an alliance they don't hold a treaty with. What does rub people the wrong way is that this was not necessary and since you DO have a long history with TPF, it is surprising that you would have signed off on this. There is nothing strategic about this and appears to be done "because you can" or "for the lulz" which is something that other alliances in Oculus are expected to do (which is why they received zero flack), but not you guys. You guys are supposedly above such behavior ... or at least used to be. "Nothing strategic about this" So you think there is no difference in a surprise attack as opposed to letting them prepare and declare their offensive wars first? Nope, nothing strategic about that. True it wasn't [i]necessary[/i], but why allow themselves to take more damage than necessary? That would be very poor strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayser Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 And agian whom did we turn on ? ... did you expect that because we had past relations with TPF NATO TLR GATO ODN Atlas RnR Last Call DK that NPO should not have been invovled with our bloc ? Loving this man, keep it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucemania Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Joined MI6 roughly four days ago because of our (then) impending doom and I'm ecstatic about the war. But I was a TPF ally from 2007-2013 and saw them burn far too many times for Pacifica to receive this !@#$%^&* treatment from them. That is what made me angry, not my newfound service in Her Magesty's Secret Service and the pixel burning that will ensue because of it. How do you think members of NPO felt when Invicta delcared on them during a curbstomp ? ... considering former NPO members actually are very influencial in that AA ... i personal have many good freinds with them ... we accepted it and today i beleive we are better for it is our answer .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Hoo III Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 "Nothing strategic about this" So you think there is no difference in a surprise attack as opposed to letting them prepare and declare their offensive wars first? Nope, nothing strategic about that. True it wasn't necessary, but why allow themselves to take more damage than necessary? That would be very poor strategy. What damage? No offense to TPF, but they aren't known as a military juggernaut and even if they were, would have slammed up against your superior numbers and then been rolled in the counter, thus getting you the "extra targets" you were looking for. No, this wasn't done as strategy (though it will most certainly be spun that way), but for fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucemania Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Loving this man, keep it up. agian here is the video for ya :) ... actually a new one just for you :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh8eb_ACLl8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellBade Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) Brucemania and the rest of the Pacifican spin-doctors, the problem at hand does not lie in the fact that The Phoenix Federation was pre-empted, if you reside outside of MI6. It is a viable strategy in war to engage a target before they can engage you, and with the treaty between MI6 and TPF, it isn't far-fetched to have believed they could have entered the fray on their own. Anyone who argues otherwise is a horrible strategist. Where the problem lies is that Oculus, an bloc consisting of numerous alliances, filled with hundreds upon hundreds of nations, that dwarf TPF in size and strength, could not have chosen a more appropriate aggressor. Literally anyone in Oculus, save for Pacifica, could have waged war against TPF and the reaction from the community at-large would have been significantly less "hostile". But no, instead of having a mutual respect for ones past comrade, you planted the sword firmly in the back of a worn warrior who simply exhausted all their resources over the years helping prop your alliance up. That is where the problem lies and to spin it any other way is to show a lack of maturity and respect on the battlefield. Frankly, any alliance that holds a treaty with you at this point outside of Oculus needs to do some internal posturing and realize that your loyalties lie thin. Edited October 10, 2015 by MitchellBade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duderonomy Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) "Nothing strategic about this" So you think there is no difference in a surprise attack as opposed to letting them prepare and declare their offensive wars first? Nope, nothing strategic about that. True it wasn't necessary, but why allow themselves to take more damage than necessary? That would be very poor strategy. Don't talk strategy to MI6ers. That's not what they want. They want tears. They want everyone to pat them on the head and say "it's alright widdle guy. Dem mean men ain't gonna bother you no more." Then they'll go back to posting inane threads and buying loads of infra. Just like every other neutral. For anyone contemplating MI6 treaties, remember that you can be someone's handhold against the crash of the waves, but never be anyone's crutch. MI6 will always love crutches. See their love of talk over action. Ex, The Sengoku Spy Thread Edited October 10, 2015 by Duderonomy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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