Greatest Alliance Rivalries

[Crymson]

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1305755510' post='2714536']
More likely a combo of both of the above Doch. Grub saw what he felt was an opportunity to get some payback and Im sure MK was doing nothing but supporting that idea when asked, because to them Grubs plan was like a gift from the gods and full of win and lulz...
[/quote]

Grub didn't have a plan. That pretty much sums up his conduct throughout that entire war, including before we entered.

[welshgazza1992]

[font="Arial"]Reading this thread is making me think that Ragnarok needs more enemies! [img]http://forums.cybernations.net/public/style_emoticons/default/awesome.gif[/img][/font]

[Wu Tang Clan]

SUN vs Exodus. LOLOLOL

Nah, I think the most heated one I've seen is NAAC vs NPpO. The best one has to be LUE/MK vs NPO... hands down.

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1305755510' post='2714536']
More likely a combo of both of the above Doch. Grub saw what he felt was an opportunity to get some payback and Im sure MK was doing nothing but supporting that idea when asked, because to them Grubs plan was like a gift from the gods and full of win and lulz...
[/quote]
Yes. When we do things it is because of win and lulz. Epic.

[im317]

RIA and sanity are not rivals, we agreed to stay away from each other a long time ago. now RIA and RIA is a whole different story. in fact RIA is the only alliance that still imposes a viceroy, speaking of which all hail cctmsp13 Viceroy of [url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/RIA-RIA_War"]RIA[/url]

[Mergerberger II]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1305748604' post='2714448']
LOL. There it is again. You blame TOP entirely for all of this. You do realize that there were [b]seven[/b] alliances that attacked Polaris, right? Surely you're aware that all seven alliances agreed on those terms, right? Did you hate all the rest of them, too? And surely you're aware that the NPO--who were allied to six out of those seven alliances--requested most of those secret terms, right? And you do remember that Polaris signed an MDP with the NPO [i]immediately[/i] after leaving terms---[b]right?[/b]

Thank you for demonstrating what I've said about the delusions regarding the WotC that many members of Polaris choose to hold.

Also, you didn't actually address a thing of my response to Dochartaigh. He implied that TOP's continuing hatred of Polaris after the WotC perpetuated the rivalry. I told him that no such hatred existed. [/quote]

I am not interested in arguing this any further in this particular thread, but I will say again what I said earlier in reference to your earlier posts, that that is not what I said at all.

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1305748604' post='2714448']
This is an absurd statement. You read the OWF. You've seen it. [/quote]

Yes, obviously there is a dislike, but I wouldn't call it complaining so much as I would call it airing their issues with TOP (if at times it is done in a less-than-desirable way)


[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1305748604' post='2714448']
I don't see where I was arguing against this. However, I think that our vitriol towards Polaris is greater than the reverse.
[/quote]

I guess you're going to turn this into a pissing contest? I'm going to exit this discussion now if that's where this was headed.

And I guess I was wrong, we can't agree on how much we hate each other.

[Denial]

1. LUE/GATO/NAAC vs NPO/NpO
2. MK vs NPO

The game has essentially been shaped around these two sets of rivalries, with only occasional deviations. All other rivalries pale in comparison.

[WalkerNinja]

IMO, TOP v NpO fails to motivate politics because of two things:

1. The hatred is too intense to allow for any politicking. Period.

2. TOP can't hit Polar. I still have 3k less tech than I started the BiPolar war with (thanks Polar), and still only have 12-13 Polar nations in my range.

Talk all you want about "We're passing you again!" but until we can actually generate a target list for your alliance, the rivalry will continue to simmer without violence. It is--ironically--a cold war.

Edited May 19, 2011 by WalkerNinja

[AnCapistan]

"Alliance you Hate" vs. "Desirable Trait an Alliance Should Have"

It's like playing Mad Libs. And I love Mad Libs!

[brokenhead]

Hey, I'm in Polar and I think NpO-TOP should lick our wounds, give each other a hug and a pat on the backside, and start writing a MDoAP. TOP and MK became friends - why not us? What do you say guys? Guys?

[Natan]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1305739928' post='2714393']
Hell, as of right now, Umbrella refuses to acknowledge its actions and states that it was the previous gov's fault and not the current gov.
[/quote]

When have we ever said that?

Really it is pretty wide spread thought within the old guard of Umbrella that the most regretablle decisions we made were partaking in the woodstock massacre and demanding reperations of polaris during WoTC, but that is the fault of the alliance not an individual, we're democratic so we can't do what polar does, and just always blame it on the emperors power ("Hey man we couldn't stop it I'm only the regent, I just stood by and watched, couldn't do anything more than that) I know if nearly any umbrella member could go back in cybernations time and change things they would change those two events.

Good try though, I guess?

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='Natan' timestamp='1305781055' post='2714758']
When have we ever said that?

Really it is pretty wide spread thought within the old guard of Umbrella that the most regretablle decisions we made were partaking in the woodstock massacre and demanding reperations of polaris during WoTC, but that is the fault of the alliance not an individual, we're democratic so we can't do what polar does, and just always blame it on the emperors power ("Hey man we couldn't stop it I'm only the regent, I just stood by and watched, couldn't do anything more than that) I know if nearly any umbrella member could go back in cybernations time and change things they would change those two events.

Good try though, I guess?
[/quote]

Actually I am pretty sure Roq was throwing the govt has changed line of thinking out there a month or two ago in regards to certain UMB actions that other alliances have been vilified and rolled for in the past.

[Monster]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1305781876' post='2714763']
Actually I am pretty sure Roq was throwing the govt has changed line of thinking out there a month or two ago in regards to certain UMB actions that other alliances have been vilified and rolled for in the past.
[/quote]

I knew that'd be brought up but you're forgetting to mention that I also compared the scope of involvement. Umbrella's involvement in the GPA war was maybe a few nations and no terms enforced. I'm not really sure how you could vilify that to a large extent. The reason I bring up the "gov has changed" line is because I have been the main figure in the government for over two years at this point and I've always been willing to condemn that war and express remorse for it. It was something I raised consistently internally without any pressure.

What I have responded to for the most with it is the line that somehow Umbrella is as much as fault as the NPO for the GPA war and thus anything we do is hypocritical. It's usually the only thing people are able to bring up against us and it kind of falls flat since I acknowledge people were at fault there, but the Triumvirate at the time has been gone for a long time, so a demonstrable change can be shown. If I simply pretended it never happened, then you'd have a case. The difference is I've never shied away from admitting fault.

I've never seen NPO for example ever acknowledge it was in the wrong to actually start it. They didn't even express regret for the FAN thing until FAN attacked them. You're just not going to get "Umbrella is as bad as NPO" especially with regards to the GPA thing as much as you guys want to try mostly because it was at best a minor role.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Antoine Roquentin

[Feanor Noldorin]

[quote name='brokenhead' timestamp='1305780950' post='2714757']
Hey, I'm in Polar and I think NpO-TOP should lick our wounds, give each other a hug and a pat on the backside, and start writing a MDoAP. TOP and MK became friends - why not us? What do you say guys? Guys?
[/quote]
Sounds good to me. I personally think we should put all this hate behind us. Lets sign a treaty and kick start a global war. You guys go in first though. We got your backs.

[Griffy]

1. NPO v. Walford
2. GATO v. NPpO
3. CN players v. RL
4. infra v. tech
5. nukes v. nations

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1305783592' post='2714786']
You guys go in first though. We got your backs.
[/quote]
I lol'ed.

[Roi Loup]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1305783592' post='2714786']
Sounds good to me. I personally think we should put all this hate behind us. Lets sign a treaty and kick start a global war. You guys go in first though. We got your backs.
[/quote]

ladies first

[brokenhead]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1305783592' post='2714786']
Sounds good to me. I personally think we should put all this hate behind us. Lets sign a treaty and kick start a global war. You guys go in first though. We got your backs.
[/quote]

Sweet, man! See, all it took was one outstretched hand.

Who should we attack first?

[Reptyler]

I believe NPO vs. LUE/MK has been the driving force behind more drama in this game than any other rivalry. Perhaps if I read the entire thread (which I plan to after work) I'll find other compelling stories.

[Williambonney]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1305782910' post='2714771']
I knew that'd be brought up but you're forgetting to mention that I also compared the scope of involvement. Umbrella's involvement in the GPA war was maybe a few nations and no terms enforced. I'm not really sure how you could vilify that to a large extent. The reason I bring up the "gov has changed" line is because I have been the main figure in the government for over two years at this point and I've always been willing to condemn that war and express remorse for it. It was something I raised consistently internally without any pressure.

What I have responded to for the most with it is the line that somehow Umbrella is as much as fault as the NPO for the GPA war and thus anything we do is hypocritical. It's usually the only thing people are able to bring up against us and it kind of falls flat since I acknowledge people were at fault there, but the Triumvirate at the time has been gone for a long time, so a demonstrable change can be shown. If I simply pretended it never happened, then you'd have a case. The difference is I've never shied away from admitting fault.

I've never seen NPO for example ever acknowledge it was in the wrong to actually start it. They didn't even express regret for the FAN thing until FAN attacked them. You're just not going to get "Umbrella is as bad as NPO" especially with regards to the GPA thing as much as you guys want to try mostly because it was at best a minor role.
[/quote]


Hey, that's great! Just make sure you kiss enough butt and get everyone to like you while you're up there, you never know when a coalition might decide to DoW because they just don't like you, even though you've got new leadership running things. Oh yeah, and FAN can bite me. Not because I'm in NPO, but because I've been elsewhere before being NPO. I've never seen them feel any regret or remorse whatsoever for all they've done to others, so no sympathy from me.

[Natan]

[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1305806375' post='2714880']
Hey, that's great! Just make sure you kiss enough butt and get everyone to like you while you're up there, you never know when a coalition might decide to DoW because they just don't like you, even though you've got new leadership running things.
[/quote]

New leadership?

Mary has been around the top of NPO for eons, not to mention Moo is still around. And further, I think a change I also haven't seen goes further than just leadership, I haven't seen a real change in attitude from the membership, they're still same old.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Natan

[Voytek]

Has anyone said Ramirus vs himself yet?

[WalkerNinja]

[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1305806375' post='2714880']
-snip-
[/quote]
Nonsense. Whatever debt FAN owed the world was paid in spades over the course of VietFAN. The problem with NPO is that your "Revolution" paradigm is predicated on the presumption of success. "Pacificans don't bend the knee!" That only works as long as you are prevailing. You haven't been lately.

[quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1305807012' post='2714882']
Has anyone said Ramirus vs himself yet?
[/quote]
Thing is this isn't very funny because this is exactly what Ramirus would say.

"Hmmm... Where can I find a worthy opponent in Cybernations? Someone that's read as much Military History as me. Someone that has as much jiu-jitsu as me. Someone as smart and dashingly good looking as me. Someone that's dated as many supermodels as I have. Someone that's counseled the presidents that I have. Ah ha! Only I can defeat me!"

Ramirus is a lot like Gaston from Beauty and the Beast.

Edited May 19, 2011 by WalkerNinja

[Rogal Dorn]

[quote name='Natan' timestamp='1305806661' post='2714881']
New leadership?

Mary has been around the top of NPO for eons, not to mention Moo is still around. And further, I think a change I also haven't seen goes further than just leadership, I haven't seen a real change in attitude from the membership, they're still same old.
[/quote]

Natan, sadly i can say that you don't know our membership as well as you think you do. come on over Natan, experience us for yourself.

[AlmightyGrub]

This thread delivers. I love you Crymson, your consistent baying at the moon entertains me to no end.

You have no idea and never ever will because you value your own counsel a little too much. You can only speculate on what happened because frankly no one involved will ever tell you the truth. The fact you hold the treaty you do only serves as a reminder to your blind acceptance of your own version of events.

I will state categorically the following statements which I believe to be true.

1. Polaris did a whole lot to piss a lot of people off under ES. Our rivalry with the NPO caused us undue stress at a time when we were on top of the world without their help. Provoking alliances like TOP and Gremlins and being perceived (quite wrongly) by others to be doing something nefarious towards them did not help out cause.

2. TOP was the main protagonist in the WoTC. That is a fact and completely supportable by my experiences and discussions both at the time and after. Crymson's lead role in the negotiations for ''peace'', his willingness to impose terms on our government that were the wishes of the NPO and his unwillingness to admit same are the major reason why I consider TOP to be complete scum.

3. TOP and Polaris were indeed moving closer together in the months prior to Bi-Polar. I genuinely believe that it would have a been a mutually beneficial relationship but I formed the clear opinion when Bi-Polar broke out that TOP was not interested in Polaris but rather in what Polaris could do for TOP.

4. The Bi-Polar War was really quite simple. Everything I did I did quite publicly including the on the table peace offer. It was there for blind freddy to see. Despite that TOP engineered its own position, they paid the price for that engineering when blind freddy indeed see the potential of the offer on the table once pre-emptively struck.

5. I did some very bad things, I am sorry for some of them and if I thought for one second I could fix it, I would. I will hang steadfast to the belief however that the damage is permanent and I will move on from there. I don't regret much about Bi-Polar at all, in a time when everyone wanted something to happen, I made something happen that you are all still whinging about today.

6. TOP are basically sooks in my opinion. You got screwed, as a result of you screwing someone else and now you want revenge for their revenge. Get over yourselves or get over here and attack us. Don't hide behind all the ''target list'' crap. Man up and come and get us like you keep threatening to. You can rant about how ineffective we were militarily in SPW, I still laugh at how easy it all was. You view things as though your nation is an extension of your penis, I view it as a simple medium to whatever end is afoot at the time. You will never understand me and I will never understand you, so lets accept that and just get into the blind hatred game until you work out that my nation is as big as it is ever going to be... not because I can't click more buttons, but because I could be bothered.

7. Polaris is what Polaris is, an enduring group run by some of the most despised people in the cyberverse, but yet here we are. We have beaten and we have been beaten and when we do both again, I wont shed a tear either way.

Good Luck with your crusade, you lost more than I ever took from you when you signed on to the last people who would have you.

TOP.WILL.DIE, probably by its own hand. Polaris will be here until the switch gets flicked.

GL HF, Polaris Prevails.