Greatest Alliance Rivalries

[Crymson]

[quote name='Tautology' timestamp='1305811174' post='2714897']
There would be fewer bitter rivalries if alliances admitted to themselves when they screwed up instead of blaming other alliances.
[/quote]

Oh, Grub has admitted to backstabbing us in the worst sort of way; he did so immediately. And then he recanted and attempted to rewrite history within Polaris. And then he confessed to it again. And then he recanted again. He seems to be stuck inside some sort of insane purgatory.

Edited May 20, 2011 by Crymson

[Williambonney]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1305849678' post='2715197']
First, let's revisit the birth of the D'Oyley Carte Opera Company.
[/quote]
Deal, but I'm not wearing a tux. I look awful dressed like a penguin.

[Bodvar Jarl]

Love you too, Grub.

Paradoxia, or at least one or more of it's members, I do not recall how much the rest of our leadership besides Crymson had an active role on our side in the WoTC, did, as far as I am aware hold the primary organizing role for the military effort in the WoTC, that much is true. Heck, if it wasn't for Crymson actively putting down an effort to get people talking, you might have waited a couple of more weeks to get peace. Someone has to do that job for a coalition, and Crymson (at least with the activity and motivation he had at the time) is one of the best in the game at that part. As for the diplomatic lead up to that war, Paradoxia had a rather limited role. As far as CN standards go, I'd say it's fair to state that we had a quite reasonable motivation to see you burn. Compared to the reasons others have had to start wars, our reason was pretty good too. As usually is the case, the ignition trigger (Something about Athens and spies, no? can't remember) was totally crap. Wasn't we who started it though. The thing is, we were just happily sitting in a very secure position watching ES dig a grave that we later would toss you in. We patiently awaited the point where you had lost all diplomatic defenses, most of it your own doing, some of it NPO's doing, very little of it our doing, we helped, but not much, we were just one of a dozen alliances wishing for a taste of your blood. Perhaps we would have done more if you had not served everything on a platter to us. And who knows what would have happened if Sponge hadn't made the snake in the grass comment, but then again, that sort of things made Sponge an interesting character, and if anything, we'd like more of those, no?

As for NPO suggested terms. It's not like we were opposed to them. See, we had few qualms about screwing you up some more, and inclined to give a friend and ally a favor.

Fast forward to last year's fun. Paradoxia was headed somewhere that it needed to get some sense knocked into our collective heads, although the skull fracture and eight month recovery period was overdoing it from my point of view, biased as it may be. And then comes the other "what if?" question. Now, I'm not about to justify the pre-empt, that was a stupid horrible idea that the ones responsible for it has gone through internal flagellation. But the big open question is "What if you flat out told us that this would not help you at all?" That maybe you should have done the nice thing to someone intending to be nice to you and spell out what would happen. Because, it sort of was about helping you to begin with. You gave some sort of go ahead, then did the 180 thing with daggers, poisoned daggers even. And for that, we shall cleanse the taint of your sins with holy nuclear fire.

Polaris once more has given us a quite reasonable motivation to see you burn, that is what it comes down to, and that is what will come when the time is right.

Edited May 20, 2011 by Bodvar Jarl

[flak attack]

[quote name='Bodvar Jarl' timestamp='1305849980' post='2715202']
(Something about Athens and spies, no? can't remember)
[/quote]
Hyperion. Athens was a pretty small, unconnected alliance at the time.

Edited May 20, 2011 by flak attack

[brokenhead]

TOLWYN vs Black

[Bodvar Jarl]

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1305852808' post='2715223']
Hyperion. Athens was a pretty small, unconnected alliance at the time.
[/quote]

I can't even remember that there ever was an alliance called Hyperion, heh.

[Ryan Greenberg]

[b]NpO-TOP:[/b] Best rivalry in the game today. Built on legit hate. I fully expect the next major war to start with TOP finding a weak CB on NpO or an NpO ally. At least it would hopefully stop Crymson from complaining in every thread about Polaris/Grub. I hope.

[b]MK-NPO:[/b] They are two most important alliances since 2008. Whenever there is a war, you know that these two will be opposing eachother.

[b]NPO-FAN:[/b] Obvious one. I feel this rivalry closed with this war ending. FAN finally got their revenge.

[b]NPO-NpO:[/b] People underrate this one I think. There was a time when NPO was the most hated alliance in Polaris. We had just signed a MDoAP with MK and we just found out Pacifica had a spy inside Polaris. We were as close to war as you get. Would've been interesting.

Edit:
Yes, I pulled a Van Hoo.(I know how you feel Hoo ) Pretty hard to leave a game after three years when it's the only computer game you play. Don't expect me to resume my terrible poster gimmick like I did in the week before I quit.

Edited May 20, 2011 by Ryan Greenberg

[Believland]

[quote name='Ryan Greenberg' timestamp='1305855065' post='2715237']
[b]NpO-TOP:[/b] Best rivalry in the game today. Built on legit hate. I fully expect the next major war to start with TOP finding a weak CB on NpO or an NpO ally. At least it would hopefully stop Crymson from complaining in every thread about Polaris/Grub. I hope.
[/quote]
Why would we need a weak CB? The fact that your Polaris is reason enough.

[Believland]

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1305837179' post='2715098']
If it makes you happier to believe your version of events, feel free. It will however never change the fact that you have it completely wrong and will never have it right. You can stamp your feet and beat your drum, but you wont be right.

In any event, I concur, TOP v Polaris is growing into a great rivalry and the hate should be fed as often as possible to ensure it remains that way.
[/quote]

Grub, the only thing you have right is your hand.

[Ryan Greenberg]

[quote name='Believland' timestamp='1305855226' post='2715240']
Why would we need a weak CB? The fact that your Polaris is reason enough.
[/quote]
I'm not in NpO and it doesn't really matter what the CB will be. Point is, I wouldn't be shocked if that's the next war.

[Dajobo]

[quote name='Bodvar Jarl' timestamp='1305849980' post='2715202']
As for NPO suggested terms. It's not like we were opposed to them. See, we had few qualms about screwing you up some more, and inclined to give a friend and ally a favor.
[/quote]

Hey look at that. TOP are getting warm!

You did a hell of a lot more than just go along with them. One day you'll work out that we don't mind war, what really bought you down was trying to screw with our community and membership. People out of Govt, people in exile and a spy planted. Why wouldn't AlmightyGrub reward you with fire when you handed yourselves up on a platter? To ice the cake when things were improving and it was bought up we got the "I can't remember" line. Right there and then was the golden time to take responsibility for your actions and move forward.

So now fast forward to this day you still hold the grudge and want revenge, revenge for revenge. After that I guess we'll want revenge. Do you see where this is going yet? You screwed us and tried to screw our community, not just IC either. Once it involved the removal of people from our alliance it became OOC as well.

Right now the score is even but I can see with your selective memory that this story has many more chapters to be written yet.

[Crymson]

[quote name='Dajobo' timestamp='1305855819' post='2715251']
Hey look at that. TOP are getting warm!

You did a hell of a lot more than just go along with them. One day you'll work out that we don't mind war, what really bought you down was trying to screw with our community and membership. People out of Govt, people in exile and a spy planted. Why wouldn't AlmightyGrub reward you with fire when you handed yourselves up on a platter? To ice the cake when things were improving and it was bought up we got the "I can't remember" line. Right there and then was the golden time to take responsibility for your actions and move forward.

So now fast forward to this day you still hold the grudge and want revenge, revenge for revenge. After that I guess we'll want revenge. Do you see where this is going yet? You screwed us and tried to screw our community, not just IC either. Once it involved the removal of people from our alliance it became OOC as well.

Right now the score is even but I can see with your selective memory that this story has many more chapters to be written yet.
[/quote]

And yet again comes the rationale for betrayal... and the claim that it was Grub's plan all along. Both are absurd.

[Dajobo]

I didn't say it was his plan at all.

[MrMuz]

Schattenmann vs The Hegemony

[Stealthkill]

NSO vs A Good Public Image

Alterego vs Making Sense

Purple vs Pink (in terms of lol-est sphere)

Xiph's Ego vs MK's Ego vs HoT's Ego

Lizkala vs Lizana

[Bodvar Jarl]

Now, there's the rub. WotC was the collective getting even thing not just from Paradoxia but equally so from several other alliances. You try to paint it as if we'd gotten everyone into the boat cause Sponge called Crymson a snake.

Hindsight, the removal of various persons was just stupid, as is trying to tie everything around Crymson's neck just because he was the coalition organizer. Even so, 07/08 was basically a case of eat or be eaten with you and your friends at one side, with us being on the other, though you happened to be the major alliance by far on your end, Paradoxia was one of several more or less equally important parties on our side. At this point the scores were even, both of us decided to move on, or is it your claim that the thawing up thing of late 2009 was one big deceit?. Then you put your poisoned dagger on the scales and tipped them over again.

On the other hand, without enemies, the game gets boring, fast.

[Ryan Greenberg]

[quote name='MrMuz' timestamp='1305856374' post='2715262']
Schattenmann vs The Hegemony
[/quote]
That's actually one of the best ones

[Crymson]

[quote name='Dajobo' timestamp='1305856372' post='2715261']
I didn't say it was his plan at all.
[/quote]

You implicitly do so every time you quote the WotC era in discussion of this matter. Why should any of TOP's supposed actions matter in relation to the betrayal in the BPW unless Grub supposedly had some sort of plan that they motivated?

Edited May 20, 2011 by Crymson

[Feanor Noldorin]

[quote name='Dajobo' timestamp='1305855819' post='2715251']
Hey look at that. TOP are getting warm!

You did a hell of a lot more than just go along with them. One day you'll work out that we don't mind war, what really bought you down was trying to screw with our community and membership. People out of Govt, people in exile and a spy planted. Why wouldn't AlmightyGrub reward you with fire when you handed yourselves up on a platter? To ice the cake when things were improving and it was bought up we got the "I can't remember" line. Right there and then was the golden time to take responsibility for your actions and move forward.

So now fast forward to this day you still hold the grudge and want revenge, revenge for revenge. After that I guess we'll want revenge. Do you see where this is going yet? You screwed us and tried to screw our community, not just IC either. Once it involved the removal of people from our alliance it became OOC as well.

Right now the score is even but I can see with your selective memory that this story has many more chapters to be written yet.
[/quote]
Man, where were these feelings during those months and months of "let's move on from the past" and "we can learn to work together" so on and so on? I gotta admit that a large number of your government officials and members spanning two Emperors managed to get me to change my opinion of you guys. Either it was a fantastic 2 year plan that you guys orchestrated or Grub simply stumble upon a way to pay us back and your simply trying to rationalize it in some half ass manner. I'm inclined to go with the latter option.

[Dajobo]

[quote name='Bodvar Jarl' timestamp='1305856863' post='2715268']
Now, there's the rub. WotC was the collective getting even thing not just from Paradoxia but equally so from several other alliances. You try to paint it as if we'd gotten everyone into the boat cause Sponge called Crymson a snake.

Hindsight, the removal of various persons was just stupid, as is trying to tie everything around Crymson's neck just because he was the coalition organizer. Even so, 07/08 was basically a case of eat or be eaten with you and your friends at one side, with us being on the other, though you happened to be the major alliance by far on your end, Paradoxia was one of several more or less equally important parties on our side. At this point the scores were even, both of us decided to move on, or is it your claim that the thawing up thing of late 2009 was one big deceit?. Then you put your poisoned dagger on the scales and tipped them over again.

On the other hand, without enemies, the game gets boring, fast.
[/quote]

The WotC was never the issue, that was just a war. The real issue was the secret terms and specifically Crymson's heavy involvement in those terms. The thawing in late 2009 you mentioned was genuine, at least for some of us. I can't speak for everyone because I can never know, but I had no hate left. I still don't to be honest. I don't claim it was right or wrong, I just understand it.

[Mergerberger II]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1305856260' post='2715256']
And yet again comes the rationale for betrayal... and the claim that it was Grub's plan all along. Both are absurd.
[/quote]

Equally absurd in this instance is the claim and implication that you make that the rivalry between TOP and Polaris was entirely a fabrication on the part of Polaris. What was done was not merely the product of one alliance's warmongering, nor was it merely the result of that alliance's mistakes and the bridges it burned. When you have hatred so extreme as it is between our two alliances, it cannot simply be entirely one-sided in its genesis. Rather, injustices must have been committed on both sides in order for the hatred to manifest itself as it has in this case. You and your alliance were the face of the coalition that attempted to destroy our community and destroy our alliance. Whether you intended it to be so or not, that is how it was.

I do not know and I will not claim to know by speculating on what it was that set off the chain of events that have led to today's world and the modern mutual abhorrence that we share, however what must be made clear here is that regardless of who it was sparked by, the fire was fed by both parties. Both of us have made mistakes. Both of us have been stubborn and refused to admit it. Both of us have attempted to atone. Both of us have felt rejected. In greater men than you or I, these feelings will lead to a similar feeling to what we now share.

What you must realize is that regardless of whether or not you were the driving force behind the terms levied upon us at the end of the War of the Coalition, you were the face of them. To Polaris, it was you who represented everything we hated. It was you we could make into a pariah and it was you that could be made the face, the leader of what destroyed us. And as you and your comrades have pointed out, you were more than content to allow this to happen, you have pointed out that you were indifferent to the terms when they were, as you claim, presented to you by NPO, and after the war you were indifferent to our existence. Had you felt the need or desire to right a wrong, it would have been likely that you would have sought us out. But rather, the problems were allowed to fester and not allowed to heal.

Polaris has made her fair share of mistakes. What was done in the months leading up to the War of the Coalition was not filled with proud moments and glorious parades to celebrate grand decisions. Largely we look back on the period from the Unjust War to the War of the Coalition as a period where we made several mistakes which led directly to the war. We did, indeed, get what we deserved in several respects.

Let me also say that Polaris does not consider what was done in the Bipolar War to be some crowning achievement, which with the frequency with which you bring it up, I assume you consider it to be. There were major arguments among Polars, and the decisions made in that war severely divided our community. I have argued before but I am relatively disinterested in arguing again the justification for the actions of our government during that war. The fact is that, regardless of how many facts are omitted from the public, mistakes were made.

Since Bipolar, Polaris has attempted to reconcile. Polaris has tried to smooth things over. But we were rejected before we were given the chance. There is a reason there are no diplomats shared between our forums today. There is a reason that we have no diplomats to TOP. When you try to fix something, or argue something, or debate something, and you are essentially told to $%&@ off, it rarely results in any desire to continue the process. As I am sure your friends in the Kingdom know quite well.

In conclusion, mistakes have been made on both ends, and I don't think it will ever be possible to reconcile our differences. I don't think our stubbornness, our hard-headedness, our selective hearing, or our memory will ever allow us to be anything but enemies. But it is always important to understand [i]why[/i] we are enemies. Distorting the truth and having the same line on constant repetition for what is now far over a year's time, however, will mutate and obscure the truth. I don't know the whole truth, and I doubt anyone will, but of what I know, of what we know, and of what the world knows, it is difficult to place blame on one party alone.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Natan' timestamp='1305847290' post='2715180']
Here I am, admitting it was the fault of Umbrella as a whole, not one man or one government, and I get trolled for blaming it on the past governments.

I tried I guess.
[/quote]

Natan=/=Antoine for one

You admitting it does not refute the fact that I was correct about Antoine placing the blame on the previous government and in particular on ochocinco for 2.

So me stating that your try was not good is just that. A statement of fact.

Now please point out where I did any sort of trolling or the like towards you? In fact, from what you quoted, there is nothing about you in there at all except me stating that your try was a failure.

Again, tried and failed. I would suggest you stop now instead of continuing to make yourself look like a fool.

[D34th]

[quote name='Ryan Greenberg' timestamp='1305855065' post='2715237']
Edit:
Yes, I pulled a Van Hoo.(I know how you feel Hoo ) Pretty hard to leave a game after three years when it's the only computer game you play. Don't expect me to resume my terrible poster gimmick like I did in the week before I quit.
[/quote]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1304051898' post='2701736']
You will come back, I hope this happen soon than later.

Enjoy the break my friend o/
[/quote]

I'm happy that happened sooner

Welcome back!

Edit: If Crymson and TOP accepts I can register on your forums and be Polaris diplomat for TOP, I'm a amazing diplomat, just ask MK

Edited May 20, 2011 by D34th

[King Louis the II]

[img]http://rlv.zcache.com/co_exist_poster-p228103972567750977t5wm_400.jpg[/img]

[Axolotlia]

[quote name='brokenhead' timestamp='1305853375' post='2715227']
TOLWYN vs Black
[/quote]

This rivalry is hereby banned