Declaration of War

[FredDerf]

I don't regret my decision. I made the best decision I could with the facts I had to work with.

You made a decision with assumptions that you didn't bother verifying but... hey... same difference, eh?

 

If your version of reality helps you to feel better about yourself then go ahead and run with it.

[Thorgrum]

Fascinating how things happen in CN, still after all these years one can still be pleasantly surprised.

 

I haven't read to much about Kaskus, did look at the wiki page.... Are the treaties all updated? Seems one is missing.

 

Good luck ! :ph34r:

[Garion]

No, no! You're supposed to wait till November, my warchest isn't fully replenished still!

[Franz Ferdinand]

Fascinating how things happen in CN, still after all these years one can still be pleasantly surprised.

 

I haven't read to much about Kaskus, did look at the wiki page.... Are the treaties all updated? Seems one is missing.

 

Good luck ! :ph34r:

Some alliances just don't get around to updating their wiki pages, or their in-game alliance bio to list if they are protected or not.

[SirWilliam]

Best of luck to our allies in Kaskus.

[Stonewall14]

Some alliances just don't get around to updating their wiki pages, or their in-game alliance bio to list if they are protected or not.

Our nations and our alliance bios are clearly marked ***PROTECTED BY KASKUS***   and have been for quite some time now per UnknownSmurf's directions in addition to being mentioned all over this forum prior to this latest attack by Goons... :ph34r:

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/123830-notification-of-intent-to-post-recognition-of-strong-emotions/

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/123952-limitless-nexus-announcement/

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/123599-limitless-nexus/?p=3307949

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/124161-zlimitless-nexus-dow/?p=3310658

[Franz Ferdinand]

Our nations and our alliance bios are clearly marked ***PROTECTED BY KASKUS***   and have been for quite some time now per UnknownSmurf's directions in addition to being mentioned all over this forum prior to this latest attack by Goons... :ph34r:

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/123830-notification-of-intent-to-post-recognition-of-strong-emotions/

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/123952-limitless-nexus-announcement/

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/123599-limitless-nexus/?p=3307949

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/124161-zlimitless-nexus-dow/?p=3310658

That comment wasn't directed to Limitless Nexus but more what I consider "dead AAs" like Nueva Vida.

[Lord bagel]

I don't regret my decision. I made the best decision I could with the facts I had to work with.

that is possibly the funniest thing you have ever said

[Neo Uruk]

Best of luck to our allies in Kaskus.

You're shitting me.

[Stonewall14]

That comment wasn't directed to Limitless Nexus but more what I consider "dead AAs" like Nueva Vida.

I understand brochacho and was mainly thinking of Thorgum's snide comment about the Kaskus's Wiki page and merely picked your quote to respond to his...my bad bro...<3

[Montosh]

So... Kittens?

[Sephiroth]

I offered a blanket white peace as a counter-offer to methage offering peace for himself and nobody else in LN, as you well know.

When you started every request for a favor with an insult, it didn't make me want to give you what you want. Learn how to negotiate before you try next time or just leave it to someone else. I regret nothing regarding how I dealt with the attack by AE. Edited September 23, 2014 by Methrage

[Garion]

Oh please not LN-AE again. Go to your threads and let Kaskus have their moment of glory or ridicule, depending on which side you're planning to be on.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

I will do this one more time and then I'm finished. I do not challenge the authenticity of the cut and pastes here because I said those things. Turns out I misunderstood what Milton was trying to tell me and when I talked to Unknown Smurf, I told him incorrect information based on what I believed to be true.

 

So you just confirmed what I said, again. Not necessary, but thanks.

 

 

The one-man AA demands people sit in his channel and acts haughtily only because of a deal with AI. At no point during the war was that viable due for a variety of (ooc) reasons, and by the time you started mouthing off for real, the negotiations had already been exhausted. Oh, and then you decide to poach ops. Easy to accuse, harder to admit to your own errors - which I have.

 

I don't negotiate with people on the sideline, other than a successful endeavour to prevent doornail from escalating the conflict which smurf decided to conveniently disregard later on. I negotiated with methrage directly, via pm and irc. With rey's approval, white peace was offered and accepted multiple times, before war jesus' slapping of stonewall. Meth's decision to reject and frustrate the numerous offers pelted at him was his alone. I'm only here so I can keep watching the house of cards fall to the ground.

 

1. At no point was AI involved, or even mentioned, and no one demanded you go anywhere, and I was in YOUR channel looking for you the whole time, so your first sentence is rampant BS on every point.

 

2. Your second and third sentences are even worse! I started hanging in your channel before we attacked! By your timeline all opportunities for negotiations were exhausted before we were even at war? Admit it. You made no attempt to negotiate whatsoever. Your plan all along was to screw your own alliance and them blame it on us. What a snake!

 

3. I poached nothing. I noticed on, what was it, day 2 of our war? That your room was completely unsecured and vulnerable to take over by any random hoodlum that walked by. So of course I secured it for you. I even messaged you offering to transfer ownership back to you, which of course you ignored.

 

4. So, having declared on Meth, thinking him weak and friendless and easy prey, having then aroused my wrath and counterdeclaration, you found yourself in a bad spot. CA was substantially more NS than LN at that point, NOT already war-weary from a month of conflict, and ready to battle. And you had not only foolishly declared without research, you had also ignored my plain warnings to you as well, and as a result you found yourself facing a fight, not a stomp. You know you and Meth dont get along, and whatever "negotiations" you supposedly had with him (and I suspect that amounted to exactly what I got out of you - 'white peace now or I delete' - which is not a negotiation but whatever) were not going well. The OBVIOUS next step for anyone in the position you claim to have been in would have been to speak with me. Anyone who is half-way competent at running an alliance would have told you that. You absolutely refused.

 

Again, admit it. You never negotiated, you refused to negotiate and then you deliberately made yourself unavailable for negotiations. Because a negotiated settlement was never what you wanted. What you wanted was something to cry about, and you worked with single-minded determination to bring it on yourself.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Sigrun Vapneir

[Unknown Smurf]

I was going to go through the thread and address major points brought up.. but I see very few worth addressing. Anyone who has read the logs will know the answer to any one that has been heralded as a 'counterpoint.' 

 

I will leave you with one final log: 

 

EDIT: Removed as requested from a friend.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Unknown Smurf

[Walshington]

Setting aside the fact that Kaskus is my ally and attempting to view this objectively, this thread has yielded the following facts:

 

1. GOONs attacked a known Kaskus protectorate (war screens verify)

2. KenMorningstar, high-ranking GOON gov't, indicated that MI6 informed GOONs that Kaskus was NOT going to defend their protectorate if GOONs attacked (logs posted and confirmed by Ken)

3. Kaskus attempts to contact MI6, one of Bob's most active alliances, but all gov't is incommunicado. (everybody's story)

4. Kaskus attacks MI6 (duh)

 

These facts generate some questions:

1. Why would GOONs attack a Kaskus protectorate going off the word of MI6?  It sounds ridiculous on the face of it, almost unimaginable for an alliance leader with experience.  If in fact this is what happened, it would seem to be a valid CB against GOONs. Could be worked out diplomatically, but would be valid.

2. If MI6 did feed GOONs this information, is this not a valid CB against MI6?

3. If MI6 did not feed GOONs this information, what in the hell were they talking about that enabled the issue to be confused? It had to involve the words "Kaskus" and "war" in some context. That is kind of a major issue to fall victim to an "oops". Logs would be helpful.

4. If the whole MI6 mis-information was a misunderstanding, when was Kaskus notified? Logs would be helpful.

5. If the narrative is now "It was an honest misunderstanding", is diplomacy underway? Are GOONs still attacking the Kaskus protectorate?

 

Even if, for the sake of argument, we assume that Kaskus jumped the gun or should have worked a little harder at diplomacy to CSI their way to the right answer, it appears that they have a valid CB on one (or both) of GOONs/MI6.  So little makes sense here. What needs to be determined is if they declared on the wrong guy. 

 

Or am I missing something?

[KenMorningstar]

Yeah good call let me just post all internal communications for my alliance and our allies to you red ass man.

[IYIyTh]

I'm sorry, are we supposed to legitimize that your ally just went out on a limb and decided to declare war on MI6? He has already admitted to hastily and in light of actual facts (not what you drew up above,) is now at war with an alliance who isn't GOONS -- all the while claiming this is because of GOONS, or some other nonsense.

 

It's just following the pattern of the bellicose nature Smurf has showed in prior months declared war on MI6 despite it never being involved in its micro drama to begin with.

 

Less than No CB war.

Edited September 24, 2014 by IYIyTh

[Facade]

Setting aside the fact that Kaskus is my ally and attempting to view this objectively, this thread has yielded the following facts:
 
3. Kaskus attempts to contact MI6, one of Bob's most active alliances, but all gov't is incommunicado. (everybody's story)

This isn't everybody's story. I've stated in the past that at no point over the last several days did Unknown Smurf query any of MI6 government regarding the issue. He claimed that he did but it's simply not true.

2. If MI6 did feed GOONs this information, is this not a valid CB against MI6?

This is begging the question. It would be like saying, "If Kaskus did make secret plans to get SRA rolled, is this not a valid CB against Kaskus?"

[Walshington]

Yeah good call let me just post all internal communications for my alliance and our allies to you red ass man.

 

Bit of a straw man there, Ken.  Had I actually asked you to "post all internal communications for my alliance and our allies", that would be a reasonable response.  You had a misunderstanding, and you acted on it.  Would help to clear things up if people could actually see what happened.

I'm sorry, are we supposed to legitimize that your ally just went out on a limb and decided to declare war on MI6? He has already admitted to hastily and in light of actual facts (not what you drew up above,) is now at war with an alliance who isn't GOONS -- all the while claiming this is because of GOONS, or some other nonsense.

 

It's just following the pattern of the bellicose nature Smurf has showed in prior months declared war on MI6 despite it never being involved in its micro drama to begin with.

 

Less than No CB war.

I didn't ask you to legitimize anything.  Just a few simple questions, which people seem to be answering with statements unrelated to the questions, which seem valid.  

 

This isn't everybody's story. I've stated in the past that at no point over the last several days did Unknown Smurf query any of MI6 government regarding the issue. He claimed that he did but it's simply not true.


This is begging the question. It would be like saying, "If Kaskus did make secret plans to get SRA rolled, is this not a valid CB against Kaskus?"

1. Ah -- I thought everyone had agreed on this.

2.  If Kaskus made secret plans to get SRA rolled, I would say that that would be a valid CB against Kaskus for us.

 

Ken and Myth -- what I just said are direct answers.  That's all I was looking for -- if you have some please post.

Facade -- thanks for clearing up my error.

[IYIyTh]

You're missing the part where Smurf's claims don't actually check out.

 

That has been cleared up since about an hour after the DoW when Smurf said this gem after realizing he had just declared war on MI6 because of bad information he received.

 

 

 

:gag:

 

In light of new evidence I'd like to request that our embassy at MI6 is reopened. 

 

 

 

Smurf jumped the gun without doing his homework in his haste to fill his lust for dragging the rest of the planet into a larger conflict.

 

Unfortunately for him it's not going to end like he thought it would.

[rabonnobar]

Best of luck to our allies in Kaskus.

 

NSO stands ready if Kashmir should need our assistance in fulfilling their obligations.

[MitchellBade]

NSO stands ready if Kashmir should need our assistance in fulfilling their obligations.

Hope yall updated your target lists

[Unknown Smurf]

You're missing the part where Smurf's claims don't actually check out.

 

That has been cleared up since about an hour after the DoW when Smurf said this gem after realizing he had just declared war on MI6 because of bad information he received.

 

 

 

 

 

Smurf jumped the gun without doing his homework in his haste to fill his lust for dragging the rest of the planet into a larger conflict.

 

Unfortunately for him it's not going to end like he thought it would.

 

Yes because that was 100% serious. 

 

Setting aside the fact that Kaskus is my ally and attempting to view this objectively, this thread has yielded the following facts:

 

1. GOONs attacked a known Kaskus protectorate (war screens verify)

2. KenMorningstar, high-ranking GOON gov't, indicated that MI6 informed GOONs that Kaskus was NOT going to defend their protectorate if GOONs attacked (logs posted and confirmed by Ken)

3. Kaskus attempts to contact MI6, one of Bob's most active alliances, but all gov't is incommunicado. (everybody's story)

4. Kaskus attacks MI6 (duh)

 

These facts generate some questions:

1. Why would GOONs attack a Kaskus protectorate going off the word of MI6?  It sounds ridiculous on the face of it, almost unimaginable for an alliance leader with experience.  If in fact this is what happened, it would seem to be a valid CB against GOONs. Could be worked out diplomatically, but would be valid.

2. If MI6 did feed GOONs this information, is this not a valid CB against MI6?

3. If MI6 did not feed GOONs this information, what in the hell were they talking about that enabled the issue to be confused? It had to involve the words "Kaskus" and "war" in some context. That is kind of a major issue to fall victim to an "oops". Logs would be helpful.

4. If the whole MI6 mis-information was a misunderstanding, when was Kaskus notified? Logs would be helpful.

5. If the narrative is now "It was an honest misunderstanding", is diplomacy underway? Are GOONs still attacking the Kaskus protectorate?

 

Even if, for the sake of argument, we assume that Kaskus jumped the gun or should have worked a little harder at diplomacy to CSI their way to the right answer, it appears that they have a valid CB on one (or both) of GOONs/MI6.  So little makes sense here. What needs to be determined is if they declared on the wrong guy. 

 

Or am I missing something?

 

Just for clarification purposes, I did go through all of the scenarios prior to posting my DoW. I concluded that MI6 must have fed GOONS misinformation and that GOONS are just being good allies and defending MI6 at this juncture (at the point of posting the DoW).. I have since been open to the fact that it was actual miscommunication but as Walsh implies in question #3 it just seems fishy. 

 

I did also try to get information regarding what the nature of this miscommunication was. I was told that it was 'private' and they wouldn't share. 

 

This isn't everybody's story. I've stated in the past that at no point over the last several days did Unknown Smurf query any of MI6 government regarding the issue. He claimed that he did but it's simply not true.


This is begging the question. It would be like saying, "If Kaskus did make secret plans to get SRA rolled, is this not a valid CB against Kaskus?"

 

I queried chim for sure, logs confirm but he was inactive for the last 3 weeks. Tbf I only asked if he was "around?" a few times. Never went into detail.

 

I also believe I queried Voodoo but my log files say I didn't...which leads me to believe I queried someone else in MI6 but I really dont want to go through all my log files trying to figure it out. 

 

EDIT: Elaboration and English.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Unknown Smurf

[Chimaera]

Yeah, Smurf asked me if I was around a couple times, but not once did he say 'Hey, this is important, we need to talk' or anything of the sort - I checked IRC a couple times a day, and would've more than happily addressed the issue if I'd guessed it was more than your usual 'Hey I'm bored, please attack us' nonsense.  

 

I get a solid 50 or 60 queries a day as an active alliance's leader.  I'm not going to answer non-critical ones when I come back from time spent AFK.

 

I'm more than willing to chalk this up as an idiotic miscommunication on all of our parts if you're willing to admit that going out and declaring war was an asinine maneuver.  But hey, we're at war now so let's have some fun with it.