Imperial Decree - New Polar

[deathcat]

[quote name='mhawk' date='06 February 2010 - 09:55 AM' timestamp='1265478925' post='2164769']
You're marching in circles bud.
[/quote]

Now [b]THAT[/b] is funny!

Also, I'm sure it's been said.. but this CF of a war is stupid.. no honor, no cb, friend vs friend, brother vs brother..

I vote to call this the CN UN-Civil War.

Outside of that.. I really respect NpO but not so much the leadership.. BiPolar is definitely making a run for the new nickname...

oo/ everyone and noone!

*DC goes to find himself (selves)

[Saber]

[quote name='MikeTheFirst' date='06 February 2010 - 07:01 PM' timestamp='1265479267' post='2164779']
I never saw Grub as a great emperor. I do agree on your view of what's been happening, though.
[/quote]
More as in great emperor in NpO's eyes. I don't have an opinion either way.

[Beauty]

I guess this war is like... 3 sided?

[Branimir]

[quote]PS. It seems it's some sort of a trend, greatest emperors making the biggest mistakes in the end.[/quote]
No. Not really.

I suppose at this point, Ill just be honest and say what I did some time ago now, back in the halls of Francograd when we debated and wasted some time between rep payments: Grub is, indeed, the worst Emperor of an Order- ever.

My hope is, that incredible BR that exists in Polar-- dedicated soldiers of strong character and honorable-- will manage to somehow navigate through this and will be blessed with a more capable leader after Grub.

It doesn't matter where they end up, in retrospect where my alliance stands, just that in the future they are not a victim of such erratic outbursts from their leader. They do not deserve it.

Edited February 6, 2010 by Branimir

[Mergerberger II]

[quote name='Branimir' date='06 February 2010 - 02:02 PM' timestamp='1265482942' post='2164872']
No. Not really.

I suppose at this point, Ill just be honest and say what I did some time ago now, back in the halls of Francograd when we debated and wasted some time between rep payments: Grub is, indeed, the worst Emperor of an Order- ever.

My hope is, that incredible BR that exists in Polar-- dedicated soldiers of strong character and honorable-- will manage to somehow navigate through this and will be blessed with a more capable leader after Grub.

It doesn't matter where they end up, in retrospect where my alliance stands, just that in the future they are not a victim of such erratic outbursts from their leader. They do not deserve it.
[/quote]

I have never known a better leader than AlmightyGrub. Never.

[Homura]

Here's an easy to understand diagram to explain the situation.

[img]http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/6411/secondunjustdiagram.png[/img]

I'm feeling the anger of many Polars at this decision. I'm not going to claim that AlmightyGrub is the worst Emperor ever, as having dealt with him, I know that he's had a very positive impact on Polaris overall. But I'm saddened and confused by these actions of late. Speaking of my time in the Order, this is not what we had hoped for.

So...Mio for Viceroy?

[Branimir]

[quote name='Mergerberger II' date='06 February 2010 - 08:15 PM' timestamp='1265483739' post='2164894']
I have never known a better leader than AlmightyGrub. Never.
[/quote]
I will not argue you--- I just wish you what I have already posted. I hope you manage through this, with some sense of logic, reality, reason intact as a collective-- and that whoever takes over Grub's role will be more consistent and capable leader.

That is all, really.

[DaJoW]

I can understand the anger over all the peripheral stuff, but are people actually angry with us for honouring a treaty, and especially angry for doing so when it puts us in a horrible position? Why didn't we hit TSO? Well, the OP states fairly clearly that MK requested help with TOP, so we DoWed TOP. Being asked for help against one alliance and then honouring that by DoWing another wouldn't have made much sense really.

[Ragashingo]

[quote name='Dilber' date='06 February 2010 - 10:35 AM' timestamp='1265474113' post='2164635']
Man, I gotta give you credit for this one Grub. I think you've actually made the New Pacific Order the less hated Order.

Lets assume there are 4 Orders(though TOP doesn't usually consider itself one, and I'm not including other alliances that have order in their new, e.g. Big top)

I used to say the hatred was

1. NPO
2. NSO
3. TOP
4. NpO

Now, It's a crapshoot.
[/quote]

Thats only because you guys... wait your old alliance ... hasn't done anything for months now

[Mergerberger II]

[quote name='Branimir' date='06 February 2010 - 02:18 PM' timestamp='1265483928' post='2164902']
I will not argue you--- I just wish you what I have already posted. I hope you manage through this, with some sense of logic, reality, reason intact as a collective-- and that whoever takes over Grub's role will be more consistent and capable leader.

That is all, really.
[/quote]
Well, take my statement into my context. I have not been in Polaris for more than a year, and prior to that I was in Genesis and Global Democratic Alliance. GDA did not have particularly good leadership at any point, and Genesis' leadership at the time was relatively inactive and spread among three different people. AlmightyGrub was the first ruler I have encountered that has had absolute power over his alliance, and I do think he did a good job with the hand he was dealt, had many successes, though he did make numerous mistakes and have numerous failures and did things that I did not like.

I apologize for what my statement probably sounded like and I would like to retract it. He is the best ruler that I have encountered, but I have not encountered many particularly fantastic leaders. His leadership during and after noCB was beyond description, and what he was able to do with Polaris and her image was nothing short of total transformation. I will say that recently he has made mistakes, and done things that I don't like, and let his temper get the best of him at times, but still, beyond that, he was an excellent leader during his tenure and I wish him well in the beer halls with Lord Calis von Assington.

There are several things that I did not like about him, and while he may not have been the ideal leader, he was what Polaris needed in 2008, he did great things to build Polaris in 2009, and now people will, unfortunately, remember him for what he's done in 2010, neglecting his great contributions to Polaris and his total transformation of our alliance into a diplomatic and military power.

He is beloved by the Body Republic and commands a respect like none I've seen. I cannot wait for Penguin's leadership and I cannot wait to see what happens in the rest of 2010 and beyond.

[Sal Paradise]

It's incredibly frustrating to be a long time detractor of Grub and now see people finally come out saying "durr worst emperor ever" only after his failings manifest themselves obviously.

Oddly, this announcement is nothing to me. I actually have a lot of sympathy for Grub in this situation. It's mostly the rest of you that are the most disappointing. Why can't you be right all the time like me?

[muffasamini]

I would like to congratulate my morally rigorous friend Grub for pioneering the next generation of brave alliance leadership, Reverse Machiavellianism. The act of ensuring that morally rigorous means justify absolutely retarded ends. Congratulations

[TheEraser]

[quote name='Branimir' date='06 February 2010 - 02:02 PM' timestamp='1265482942' post='2164872']
No. Not really.

I suppose at this point, Ill just be honest and say what I did some time ago now, back in the halls of Francograd when we debated and wasted some time between rep payments: Grub is, indeed, the worst Emperor of an Order- ever.

My hope is, that incredible BR that exists in Polar-- dedicated soldiers of strong character and honorable-- will manage to somehow navigate through this and will be blessed with a more capable leader after Grub.

It doesn't matter where they end up, in retrospect where my alliance stands, just that in the future they are not a victim of such erratic outbursts from their leader. They do not deserve it.
[/quote]
The body republic of polaris is loyal to Grub, not that i would expect a pacifican to understand a simple concept like loyalty but still.

[Branimir]

[quote name='Mergerberger II' date='06 February 2010 - 08:33 PM' timestamp='1265484810' post='2164923']I cannot wait for Penguin's leadership and I cannot wait to see what happens in the rest of 2010 and beyond.[/quote]
Heh, me too. If the start of the year is any indication-- we are in for a wild ride.

As I said, no matter how relations between our alliances work and I am not seeing any roses, I still wish you that Penguin will not have "Grub moments" like these and will be consistent.

Good luck with your wars, although I cant really fathom how it can work-- fighting both camps at the same time, will GOD front go quite now because it will be in the interest for them, how you even negotiate peace now on alliance scale, on what side, where, etc. This assassination of any logic and reason,....I hope you manage.

[quote]It's incredibly frustrating to be a long time detractor of Grub and now see people finally come out saying "durr worst emperor ever" only after his failings manifest themselves obviously.[/quote]

I am not a solo rider as you are. I am a part of a collective, although small one and not important, I can not say everything on my head as my alliance's weak position can be damaged. That is all.

[quote name='elborrador' date='06 February 2010 - 08:44 PM' timestamp='1265485468' post='2164935']The body republic of polaris is loyal to Grub, not that i would expect a pacifican to understand a simple concept like loyalty but still.[/quote]

My wish remains.

With that, I exit. I have to take care of what sense I still have left,...

Edited February 6, 2010 by Branimir

[joracy]

[quote name='Katsumi' date='06 February 2010 - 02:17 PM' timestamp='1265483824' post='2164899']
Here's an easy to understand diagram to explain the situation.

[img]http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/6411/secondunjustdiagram.png[/img]

I'm feeling the anger of many Polars at this decision. I'm not going to claim that AlmightyGrub is the worst Emperor ever, as having dealt with him, I know that he's had a very positive impact on Polaris overall. But I'm saddened and confused by these actions of late. Speaking of my time in the Order, this is not what we had hoped for.

So...Mio for Viceroy?
[/quote]

I can support this.

[Aquilos]

[quote name='DaJoW' date='06 February 2010 - 01:30 PM' timestamp='1265484608' post='2164917']
I can understand the anger over all the peripheral stuff, but are people actually angry with us for honouring a treaty, and especially angry for doing so when it puts us in a horrible position? Why didn't we hit TSO? Well, the OP states fairly clearly that MK requested help with TOP, so we DoWed TOP. Being asked for help against one alliance and then honouring that by DoWing another wouldn't have made much sense really.
[/quote]
It's more of the issue that your leader lied explicitly to multiple alliances, and gave his absolute word. Which apparently means nothing. I don't think I could be in an alliance, knowing that my leader not only lied, but also seems almost.. proud of the lie. Trust is out the window, now.

[Saber]

[quote name='DaJoW' date='06 February 2010 - 08:30 PM' timestamp='1265484608' post='2164917']
I can understand the anger over all the peripheral stuff, but are people actually angry with us for honouring a treaty, and especially angry for doing so when it puts us in a horrible position? Why didn't we hit TSO? Well, the OP states fairly clearly that MK requested help with TOP, so we DoWed TOP. Being asked for help against one alliance and then honouring that by DoWing another wouldn't have made much sense really.
[/quote]
Problem is you have made a promise to not do exactly what you are doing now, and you are the one that CAUSED this in the first place. If you did not approve of our attack on CnG we would not have declared.

It is not honorable to create the situation by giving a promise while at the same time ignoring two of your direct treaty allies, and then later to change your mind and decide to attack alliance you "deployed" on your allies. (Not literally but for all intents and purposes it comes down to the same thing).

Do you not get how crazy this is?

If NpO did not want our help, and did not want us to attack CnG we would not have attacked CnG so we can help you. Your Emperor's word (which should be worth something) was reason we entered and now you attack us because of it?.

I literally cannot wrap my head about line of thinking in people who are defending Grub in this situation.

[SirWilliam]

Perhaps you should have and should be putting less faith in non-allies to put your interests and well-being above that of their allies.

Edited February 6, 2010 by SirWilliam

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Yggdrazil' date='06 February 2010 - 04:00 AM' timestamp='1265450451' post='2164152']
VE is fully engaged with NpO. Will this end;also GOD? I will not fault NpO on a treaty commitment, yet there seems to be some word given to TOP that this would not be done.A verbal commitment is just as binding as a written agreement.Also where was MK when PC and FOK declared on NpO .And before the sophistry of NpO declared on \m/ rears is convoluted head, the only aggressive action by NpO was against \m/.PC and FOK's declaration against NpO should have been countered by MK's declaration in defense of NpO. To say otherwise would negate more than half the declarations issued now in defense of MK that were not issued against Top/Iron/TORN.
[/quote]

this i can agree with. though, Polaris stated that they would take on PC/\m/ by themselves. FOK then hit Polaris as did other alliances. where was MK in defense of Polaris? i could understand FOK, but what of the others who hit Polaris in that war?

also, from everything i heard, Polaris agreed to TOP/IRON hitting CnG only if CnG entered the war. TOP/IRON conducted a preemptive strike, thus breaking their word with Polaris bout CnG having to have entered the war.

as for MK and GR asking for help and Polaris giving it, it only proves to me that Polaris is a better alliance since neither of you helped Polaris out when they needed it. How many alliances are Polaris at war with now (VE, OV, and whoever else) and not a single DoW from MK or GR to aid Polaris...

all those showing Polar hate, please, Polaris is attempting to honor their treaties. blame TOP/IRON for conducting an aggressive war instead of entering to defend NSO as even they stated the plan was for. the plan, from what i have heard was never a preemptive strike and to state such is ridiculous. why should Polaris honor their word when you did not honor yours?

anyways, o/ Polaris and o/ Grub. it is sad to see you step down Grub. Good luck and congrats to Penguin.

[Banned]

[quote name='mhawk' date='06 February 2010 - 03:06 PM' timestamp='1265468799' post='2164502']
Technically at the time of white peace, you guys did the peacing out because we had 5x the NS on your side declared. On another note however you started that war, and if you count this DoW as Polar being on your side, well your side started THIS war also.
[/quote]

mhawk, you're around a lot of places suing for peace in this war, and saying that Citadel is not a threat.

To me, this seems as though it was TOP/IRON's chance to make up for that war that never happened cause they showed up too late (only what... a few short weeks ago?)

Until these entities are put down utterly and completely, they will remain a threat to the safety of CnG. A group of alliances that have set the precedent that it is ok to attack just because "we don't like you", well that is a threat to the safety and security of everybody.

Your argument that TOPRON and friends are not a threat... well they won't be if CnG drives them to disbandment (and I don't see that happening), but I can't at all blame CnG finishing a war that was started against them. If TOPRON had not started a war they couldn't finish by declaring on an entire bloc of uninvolved alliances, we would not be here today complaining about "SuperComplaints r ruining my game =("

When TOPRON attacked CnG without cause, they activated the combined defense treaties of an entire bloc. By the CB alone, this should be referred to as "The Facepalm Conflict".

I'll drop a dime in a well for you and wish for reasonable terms at the end of this conflict, but I would not at all blame CnG if they want to knock some more TOPRON NS out of the way to assure their future security before putting this thing to bed. If a criminal were running around your nation blowing up government buildings and orphanages... well I don't think you'd just go handing out a pardon. What TOPRON did to CnG is no different. When children started missing limbs and growing 2nd heads from the radiation that TOPRON rained down on their cities... well they responded. I wouldn't blame them even if they made this a very long war... maybe keep it going for a few more months to really twist the screws on TOPRON and make them think long and hard about the possibility of eternal war when terms are presented to end this.

[Guido]

WOW, the NpO is now the worst order ever? AND the joke of CN? nice move grub...

[Caesius]

[quote name='Saber' date='06 February 2010 - 02:59 PM' timestamp='1265486381' post='2164962']
If NpO did not want our help, and did not want us to attack CnG we would not have attacked CnG so we can help you. Your Emperor's word (which should be worth something) was reason we entered and now you attack us because of it?.
[/quote]

I *almost* have a hard time believing it was Grub who proposed that TOP and IRON attack C&G (preemptively, and without treaty connections at that) and not the other way around. TOP showed in the last war that they run the show for their side.

Then again, it's Grub, so I dunno! Either way, Polaris is an ally of our C&G brethren and have honored their treaty obligations (even if it was their disregarding of the spirit of such that led to the episode that started this all in the first place), so I suppose we should wish them luck in getting out of this ridiculous mess.

Edited February 6, 2010 by Caesius

[LiquidMercury]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='06 February 2010 - 02:14 PM' timestamp='1265487254' post='2164987']

also, from everything i heard, Polaris agreed to TOP/IRON hitting CnG only if CnG entered the war. TOP/IRON conducted a preemptive strike, thus breaking their word with Polaris bout CnG having to have entered the war.

all those showing Polar hate, please, Polaris is attempting to honor their treaties. blame TOP/IRON for conducting an aggressive war instead of entering to defend NSO as even they stated the plan was for. the plan, from what i have heard was never a preemptive strike and to state such is ridiculous. why should Polaris honor their word when you did not honor yours?
[/quote]

Except Doch, Polaris/STA knew we were Pre-emping MK/CnG. They approved it and all.

[Saber]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='06 February 2010 - 09:14 PM' timestamp='1265487254' post='2164987']
this i can agree with. though, Polaris stated that they would take on PC/\m/ by themselves. FOK then hit Polaris as did other alliances. where was MK in defense of Polaris? i could understand FOK, but what of the others who hit Polaris in that war?

also, from everything i heard, Polaris agreed to TOP/IRON hitting CnG only if CnG entered the war. TOP/IRON conducted a preemptive strike, thus breaking their word with Polaris bout CnG having to have entered the war.

as for MK and GR asking for help and Polaris giving it, it only proves to me that Polaris is a better alliance since neither of you helped Polaris out when they needed it. How many alliances are Polaris at war with now (VE, OV, and whoever else) and not a single DoW from MK or GR to aid Polaris...

all those showing Polar hate, please, Polaris is attempting to honor their treaties. blame TOP/IRON for conducting an aggressive war instead of entering to defend NSO as even they stated the plan was for. the plan, from what i have heard was never a preemptive strike and to state such is ridiculous. why should Polaris honor their word when you did not honor yours?

anyways, o/ Polaris and o/ Grub. it is sad to see you step down Grub. Good luck and congrats to Penguin.
[/quote]
Grub knew and agreed with preemptive strike.

[LiquidMercury]

[quote name='Caesius' date='06 February 2010 - 02:21 PM' timestamp='1265487708' post='2165004']
I *almost* have a hard time believing it was Grub who proposed that TOP and IRON attack C&G (preemptively, and without treaty connections at that) and not the other way around. TOP showed in the last war that they run the show for their side.

Then again, it's Grub, so I dunno! Either way, Polaris is an ally of our C&G brethren and have honored their treaty obligations (even if it was their disregarding of the spirit of such that led to the episode that started this all in the first place), so I suppose we should wish them luck in getting out of this ridiculous mess.
[/quote]

Not sure who is saying that Grub came up with the pre-emp? Because he didn't. He approved it and said he would not activate the MK treaty and knew that we were going in on behalf of polar, but did not come up with the idea. No need to tact that on him as well.