Imperial Decree - New Polar

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='LiquidMercury' date='06 February 2010 - 03:21 PM' timestamp='1265487712' post='2165005']
Except Doch, Polaris/STA knew we were Pre-emping MK/CnG. They approved it and all.
[/quote]

pezstar's logs prove differently in regards to STA.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='LiquidMercury' date='06 February 2010 - 02:21 PM' timestamp='1265487712' post='2165005']
Except Doch, Polaris/STA knew we were Pre-emping MK/CnG. They approved it and all.
[/quote]

[quote name='Saber' date='06 February 2010 - 02:21 PM' timestamp='1265487714' post='2165006']
Grub knew and agreed with preemptive strike.
[/quote]

proof please, and not the logs that have been floating around that only state war plans (cuz it seems there are several versions) in generic terms versus Grub and STA stating "We agree with TOP/IRON preemptively attacking CnG despite the fact that the original plan was for IRON to enter in defense of NSO and then TOP to help IRON out."

[LiquidMercury]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' date='06 February 2010 - 02:24 PM' timestamp='1265487868' post='2165014']
pezstar's logs prove differently in regards to STA.
[/quote]

Pez was not informed of the decision, because well Pez was harassing people left and right in coalition channels demanding this and that with her usual tact. I had to ask Uthred and Moridin both on a few occasions to get her to back off. Moridin himself agreed that "hopefully Pez doesn't know about the pre-emp" for the sake of opsec.

[The AUT]

I think I know what happened:

AlmightyGrub is former NAAC, right? He clearly planned to join Polaris and destroy it within. Contriving with his friend in LUE 2.0 to destroy it and now his plan is complete. And because of this Electron Sponge and Rebel Virginia must save the Order from the inside destruction of AlmightyGrub and Archon.

ES, RV they need you. Score 1 for the League.

[quote]Pez was not informed of the decision, because well Pez was harassing people left and right in coalition channels demanding this and that with her usual tact. I had to ask Uthred and Moridin both on a few occasions to get her to back off. Moridin himself agreed that "hopefully Pez doesn't know about the pre-emp" for the sake of opsec.[/quote]

lolpez. People like her for reasons unbeknown to us on this side of the grass. She's a snake in the grass.

Edited February 6, 2010 by The AUT

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='LiquidMercury' date='06 February 2010 - 03:25 PM' timestamp='1265487957' post='2165018']
Pez was not informed of the decision, because well Pez was harassing people left and right in coalition channels demanding this and that with her usual tact. I had to ask Uthred and Moridin both on a few occasions to get her to back off. Moridin himself agreed that "hopefully Pez doesn't know about the pre-emp" for the sake of opsec.
[/quote]

Of course she would demand her allies would not be attacked, what do you take her for? Moridin is not in STA as well. So unless you have proof that STA agreed to it then it stands to reason STA did not approve nor want an attack on CnG.

[LiquidMercury]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='06 February 2010 - 02:24 PM' timestamp='1265487873' post='2165015']
proof please, and not the logs that have been floating around that only state war plans (cuz it seems there are several versions) in generic terms versus Grub and STA stating "We agree with TOP/IRON preemptively attacking CnG despite the fact that the original plan was for IRON to enter in defense of NSO and then TOP to help IRON out."
[/quote]

Find me on IRC. Also, the IRON to hit Fark business was thrown by the wayside for the sheer fact that it would allow all of SF to come in, engage our NS, put us in nuclear anarchy and limit our ability to choose targets on CnG thus allowing them to come over the top very easily to put us down. It was also in attempts to avoid bringing MHA/Gre into this, that on the onset of war, professed (MHA did) that they were only there for Fark and would otherwise remain neutral. Obviously, all sorts of crazyness ensued and it didn't work out terribly well. Both Moridin and even later NSO acknolwedged the fact that IRON hitting Fark would essentially just mean a quick end of the war and not for the better. So we went for the ballsy (possibly not so brilliant eitheR) move of pre-emping on behalf of polaris cause.

[Caesius]

[quote name='LiquidMercury' date='06 February 2010 - 03:23 PM' timestamp='1265487801' post='2165009']
Not sure who is saying that Grub came up with the pre-emp? Because he didn't. He approved it and said he would not activate the MK treaty and knew that we were going in on behalf of polar, but did not come up with the idea. No need to tact that on him as well.
[/quote]

I edited in Saber's statement that I was replying to (and got jacked): "If NpO did not want our help, and did not want us to attack CnG we would not have attacked CnG so we can help you."

[LiquidMercury]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' date='06 February 2010 - 02:28 PM' timestamp='1265488110' post='2165024']
Of course she would demand her allies would not be attacked, what do you take her for? Moridin is not in STA as well. So unless you have proof that STA agreed to it then it stands to reason STA did not approve nor want an attack on CnG.
[/quote]

Hence why I included Uthred in there (and I may be spelling his name wrong, if so sorry!).

[LiquidMercury]

[quote name='Caesius' date='06 February 2010 - 02:30 PM' timestamp='1265488202' post='2165027']
I edited in Saber's statement that I was replying to (and got jacked): "If NpO did not want our help, and did not want us to attack CnG we would not have attacked CnG so we can help you."
[/quote]

Had polaris been against us attacking CnG preemptively, we'd not of done it. That's just the simple truth.

[Tick1]

[quote name='LiquidMercury' date='06 February 2010 - 08:23 PM' timestamp='1265487801' post='2165009']
Not sure who is saying that Grub came up with the pre-emp? Because he didn't. He approved it and said he would not activate the MK treaty and knew that we were going in on behalf of polar, but did not come up with the idea. No need to tact that on him as well.
[/quote]

Your right, let just pretend he didn't activate the MK treaty. That doesn't mean they can't activate the GR treaty. Anyhow what difference does it make aside from the fact that you got played? Really?

[KahlanRahl]

This war has become one giant cluster$%&@ of epic fail and stupid.

[color="#FF0000"][b]*Kahlan Rahl[/b][/color] throws her hands up and gives up on CN Politics for ever.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='LiquidMercury' date='06 February 2010 - 03:30 PM' timestamp='1265488220' post='2165028']
Hence why I included Uthred in there (and I may be spelling his name wrong, if so sorry!).
[/quote]

Until I see proof of him approving the attack, I'm sorry but I'll have to call shens. I'm sure you're not lying, but really it's hard to believe and without seeing any evidence I can't accuse STA of doing that.

[Valtamdraugr]

Grub addressed my accusation of erratic behavior in another conversation by saying that he had been consistently erratic. I was not convinced of this at the time and I supposed it had something to do with an eventual change in Polar leadership.

I have had dealings with Penguin in the past and I find him to be a very apt replacement.

[Caesius]

[quote name='LiquidMercury' date='06 February 2010 - 03:31 PM' timestamp='1265488272' post='2165029']
Had polaris been against us attacking CnG preemptively, we'd not of done it. That's just the simple truth.
[/quote]

Yeah, I'm just saying that Grub probably (definitely?) didn't come up with the idea for TOP/IRON et al. to hit C&G, he just approved your preemptive strike. When he was working out peace with \m/ he probably wasn't expecting you guys to attack so soon. You guys are equally if not more culpable for your current situation.

Although Grub is at fault for breaking his word that he would not honor treaties, he would be even more culpable if he were to ignore the treaties given the current situation.

[bzelger]

I would be appreciative of logs of this approval by the STA. It's news to me.

Edited February 6, 2010 by bzelger

[Blue Lightning]

If you look in the OP, grub himself acknowledged that he knew about the attack and approved.

[edit]By OP, I mean Crymson's post.

[edit2][quote name='DaJoW' date='06 February 2010 - 07:30 PM' timestamp='1265484608' post='2164917']
Being asked for help against one alliance and then honouring that by DoWing another wouldn't have made much sense really.
[/quote]
I understand that NSO requested your assistance with FARK but instead you attacked GOD. So you already did that.

Edited February 6, 2010 by Blue Lightning

[LiquidMercury]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' date='06 February 2010 - 02:33 PM' timestamp='1265488432' post='2165039']
Until I see proof of him approving the attack, I'm sorry but I'll have to call shens. I'm sure you're not lying, but really it's hard to believe and without seeing any evidence I can't accuse STA of doing that.
[/quote]

I can agree to that. Until I post logs then, I will leave this point as moot and drop it in the public arena.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Blue Lightning' date='06 February 2010 - 02:37 PM' timestamp='1265488669' post='2165053']
If you look in the OP, grub himself acknowledged that he knew about the attack and approved.

[edit]By OP, I mean Crymson's post.
[/quote]

actually Crymson's post does not give any actual time frame for the discussion nor does it give any actual plans. it just states war plans. that could very well mean that it was TOP/IRON coming in on defense of NSO and not the preemptive strikes. not to mention without actual dates, we have no clue when the conversation took place.

[LiquidMercury]

[quote name='Caesius' date='06 February 2010 - 02:36 PM' timestamp='1265488589' post='2165048']
Yeah, I'm just saying that Grub probably (definitely?) didn't come up with the idea for TOP/IRON et al. to hit C&G, he just approved your preemptive strike. When he was working out peace with \m/ he probably wasn't expecting you guys to attack so soon. You guys are equally if not more culpable for your current situation.

Although Grub is at fault for breaking his word that he would not honor treaties, he would be even more culpable if he were to ignore the treaties given the current situation.
[/quote]

Actually, to be perfectly honest, the time to hit was well known by polaris and by all who were doing it. Go-time was exactly 90 minutes before update, and it was indeed known by polaris. I still consider the peace with \m/ to be a huge miscommunication between TOP/Polar/IRON and I for one do not blame them at all in that regards for that incident. It truly was the worlds biggest coincidental communication snafu.

[TBRaiders]

[quote name='Blue Lightning' date='06 February 2010 - 02:37 PM' timestamp='1265488669' post='2165053']
If you look in the OP, grub himself acknowledged that he knew about the attack and approved.

[edit]By OP, I mean Crymson's post.

[edit2]
I understand that NSO requested your assistance with FARK but instead you attacked GOD. So you already did that.
[/quote]

I personally would like to see the original conversation and not the one that took place five minutes before it was posted where it looks like Grub is just sick and tired of the whole conversation and doesn't care anymore.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='LiquidMercury' date='06 February 2010 - 03:41 PM' timestamp='1265488878' post='2165061']
I can agree to that. Until I post logs then, I will leave this point as moot and drop it in the public arena.
[/quote]

Fair enough.

[Penkala]

So now there is one guaranteed loser in this war: NpO. Well, kudos for honoring your treaties, I guess. Pretty lame some of the stuff you've done, and pretty lame how you take jabs at MK and GR even as you begrudgingly defend them.

[mhawk]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' date='06 February 2010 - 12:24 PM' timestamp='1265487868' post='2165014']
pezstar's logs prove differently in regards to STA.
[/quote]
Pezstar's logs are in a talk with me. I was not the one who planned the attack, nor am I even directly allied to TOP. I did notify them of my concerns and as has been said many times TOP said they'd talk to Polar and I left it at that.

[Chalaskan]

[quote name='Wabooz' date='06 February 2010 - 06:52 AM' timestamp='1265471557' post='2164566']
...---...I just hope that TOP can handle our sole attacker...---...
[/quote]

That is hardly the point. Without even looking I wonder if it is ski lol, doubt it as he is probably in anarchy.

[quote name='Dujek Onearm' date='06 February 2010 - 07:45 AM' timestamp='1265474716' post='2164660']
I never said CnG was going to be neutral. I said CnG was uninvolved at that moment. Perhaps we would join the conflict in another front or perhaps peace would be reached before that (the most likely outcome hadn't you attacked us).

So yeah, this was never about coming into Polaris defense. Your moves were all about trying to attack CnG in a opportunistic way, because you saw us as a threat to you, as you have stated a few times since the war started.
[/quote]

LMAO, everyone knew where C&G stood. Don't play woulda/coulda when it is known without a doubt.

[quote name='Branimir' date='06 February 2010 - 10:02 AM' timestamp='1265482942' post='2164872']
No. Not really.

I suppose at this point, Ill just be honest and say what I did some time ago now, back in the halls of Francograd when we debated and wasted some time between rep payments: Grub is, indeed, the worst Emperor of an Order- ever.

My hope is, that incredible BR that exists in Polar-- dedicated soldiers of strong character and honorable-- will manage to somehow navigate through this and will be blessed with a more capable leader after Grub.

It doesn't matter where they end up, in retrospect where my alliance stands, just that in the future they are not a victim of such erratic outbursts from their leader. They do not deserve it.
[/quote]

I agree, they have had such a solid core that stood through thick and thin just for Grub to do this? What a waste.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='mhawk' date='06 February 2010 - 04:03 PM' timestamp='1265490190' post='2165101']
Pezstar's logs are in a talk with me. I was not the one who planned the attack, nor am I even directly allied to TOP. I did notify them of my concerns and as has been said many times TOP said they'd talk to Polar and I left it at that.
[/quote]

The point remains that when confronted about it pezstar would not approve an attack on CnG as a whole.