Imperial Decree - New Polar

[Chalaskan]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' date='06 February 2010 - 12:10 PM' timestamp='1265490641' post='2165114']
The point remains that when confronted about it pezstar would not approve an attack on CnG as a whole.
[/quote]

The fact remains that Pez made people believe the logs were with TOP gov.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Chalaskan' date='06 February 2010 - 04:13 PM' timestamp='1265490803' post='2165115']
The fact remains that Pez made people believe the logs were with TOP gov.
[/quote]

No. That's the only time she was approached about an attack on CnG and so she told whoever asked no. At no time did she state anything else.

[shahenshah]

Know what, I'll not pass any judgement on Polaris just yet. People are mad at Polaris, you DoW'd our ally, there will be people angry in alot of alliances and very rightly so, but there is a voice in my head somewhere that tells me, Dont jump onto conclusion -just- yet. Seeing how NpO has stood up since the end of WoTC, for so many many months, for taking actions consistently for a long time that commanded respect, you'll just have to do some more twists before I totally go ragerepeatx3 on you.

With the numbers advantage on CnG's side, I am tho honestly wondering if there was a need to totally burn NpO's image.

D34th I still you.

Ski, have fun skiing downhill

Edited February 6, 2010 by shahenshah

[silentkiller]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' date='06 February 2010 - 09:10 PM' timestamp='1265490641' post='2165114']
The point remains that when confronted about it pezstar would not approve an attack on CnG as a whole.
[/quote]

Remember the all "C&G fights as one" and the whole MADP business? Attacking any member of C&G is like attacking all of C&G, or was all the "NATO attacked Aqua!!!" bs?

[Chalaskan]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' date='06 February 2010 - 12:15 PM' timestamp='1265490924' post='2165120']
No. That's the only time she was approached about an attack on CnG and so she told whoever asked no. At no time did she state anything else.
[/quote]

Maybe I am just one of the many who were naive enough to think the absence of who they were with was TOP gov?

[Banksy]

[quote name='Chalaskan' date='07 February 2010 - 09:04 AM' timestamp='1265490240' post='2165104']
LMAO, everyone knew where C&G stood. Don't play woulda/coulda when it is known without a doubt.
[/quote]

You never gave C&G the chance to make a stand. C&G was pulling a lot of strings on the diplomatic front leading up to the polaris peace- trying to end the conflict. Our participation in the conflict was never a guarantee- unless you have some evidence other then heresy- you should stop pulling this fact-less accusation at every opportunity. The person you should blame is the [i]brilliant[/i] tactician who 1) made you declare on an entire bloc (thereby forcing the NpO into this conflict- resulting in this announcement) and 2) listed in your CB 'We don't like C&G very much.'

At the people saying Grub was a terrible Emperor ITT- this is simply not true. He was the perfect leader for polaris as they were fighting a losing was, and as they were rebuilding. He made a few (big) blunders in recent memory- but by choosing to resign right now he has shown us that he can reflect on his mistakes and put them right.

[Cataduanes]

I should have logged in earllier....this is simply wow

[shahenshah]

[quote name='jamesdanaher' date='07 February 2010 - 02:22 AM' timestamp='1265491326' post='2165136']
You never gave C&G the chance to make a stand. C&G was pulling a lot of strings on the diplomatic front leading up to the polaris peace- trying to end the conflict.
[/quote]

Did you inform Polaris about the incoming attacks and to get them onto hold..you know..as you say in the spirit of 'trying to end the conflict'?

[Alonicus]

So once this mess is all over, with NpO on the winning and losing sides, will they have to pay themselves reps ? Will they have to appoint a viceroy over themselves ? Sheesh, what a mess.....

[zzzptm]

[quote name='Alonicus' date='06 February 2010 - 03:33 PM' timestamp='1265491980' post='2165146']
So once this mess is all over, with NpO on the winning and losing sides, will they have to pay themselves reps ? Will they have to appoint a viceroy over themselves ? Sheesh, what a mess.....
[/quote]

I hope they don't force themselves to disband.

[joracy]

[quote name='Alonicus' date='06 February 2010 - 04:33 PM' timestamp='1265491980' post='2165146']
So once this mess is all over, with NpO on the winning and losing sides, will they have to pay themselves reps ? Will they have to appoint a viceroy over themselves ? Sheesh, what a mess.....
[/quote]

Penguin for NpO viceroy? :S

[Bob]

[quote name='joracy' date='06 February 2010 - 04:48 PM' timestamp='1265492924' post='2165170']
Penguin for NpO viceroy? :S
[/quote]
I can state for a fact that Penguin will be forced into command in Polaris.

[The AUT]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='06 February 2010 - 09:51 PM' timestamp='1265493109' post='2165174']
I can state for a fact that Penguin will be forced into command in Polaris.
[/quote]

Sir, don't you mean the NAAC who got hoodwinked by LUE 2.0?

[astronaut jones]

[quote name='LiquidMercury' date='06 February 2010 - 08:25 PM' timestamp='1265487957' post='2165018']
Pez was not informed of the decision, because well Pez was harassing people left and right in coalition channels demanding this and that with her usual tact. I had to ask Uthred and Moridin both on a few occasions to get her to back off. Moridin himself agreed that "hopefully Pez doesn't know about the pre-emp" for the sake of opsec.
[/quote]

I like pezstar, please don't be all up in her grill.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='LiquidMercury' date='06 February 2010 - 03:29 PM' timestamp='1265488173' post='2165026']
Find me on IRC. Also, the IRON to hit Fark business was thrown by the wayside for the sheer fact that it would allow all of SF to come in, engage our NS, put us in nuclear anarchy and limit our ability to choose targets on CnG thus allowing them to come over the top very easily to put us down. It was also in attempts to avoid bringing MHA/Gre into this, that on the onset of war, professed (MHA did) that they were only there for Fark and would otherwise remain neutral. Obviously, all sorts of crazyness ensued and it didn't work out terribly well. Both Moridin and even later NSO acknolwedged the fact that IRON hitting Fark would essentially just mean a quick end of the war and not for the better. So we went for the ballsy (possibly not so brilliant eitheR) move of pre-emping on behalf of polaris cause.
[/quote]
The NSO never once stated that it supported the pre-emptive attack idea. Not once. I was consistent in stating that I thought the whole concept of planning some grand scheme war in an effort to destroy or confront a non-combatant bloc was ridiculous. When I was [i]told[/i] that it was happening regardless of my opinion on it I asked that IRON mention the Moldavi Doctrine in the declaration so I could get some mileage on it, but not because I was supporting the move.

I always advocated natural escalation through the expansion of treaties. If IRON had entered through an ordinary means then a majority of the alliances that peaced out after Polar and \m/ did their nice little two step would have maintained their engagement because there would have been a more natural consequence for them to remain in the war. And you sure as Hell wouldn't have some of those alliances now on the opposite side of the fence.

This was a piss poor way to manage a war, as I have stated since the first day I heard about it and come into the planning room on IRC and told you that in front of two dozen other alliances. This whole thing has gone to the absurd.

I enjoy war and will give everything we have if it supports our friends but when your friends disregard your advice and make stupid decisions at some point you have to start reconsidering why you are fighting to begin with.

I can also state that Moridin and pezstar were both also vehemently against a pre-emptive strike on CnG based on every conversation that I observed which included them and the topic.

[Ejayrazz]

Means TOP has been doing some good damage.

Good luck to all involved.

[wickedj]

[quote name='Ejayrazz' date='06 February 2010 - 05:38 PM' timestamp='1265495924' post='2165230']
Means TOP has been doing some good damage.

Good luck to all involved.
[/quote]
Duh?

Lot of tech = lot of damage...i thought this was common knowledge(though TOP and IRON have fallen quite hard too)

[Kortal]

Some powerful white knighting of pezstar here. To each his own

I guess the question that comes to mind for me at least now is exactly what TOP plans on doing FA-wise now that the alliance they were basing their entire future on decided that instead of fighting hard to get their allies out of war they needed to do everything in their power to cozy up to the inevitable victors

To those keeping track, yeah I DID just express disapproval of three entirely separate entities in a single post. Deal w/it

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Kortal' date='06 February 2010 - 04:46 PM' timestamp='1265496413' post='2165247']
Some powerful white knighting of pezstar here. To each his own

I guess the question that comes to mind for me at least now is exactly what TOP plans on doing FA-wise now that the alliance they were basing their entire future on decided that instead of fighting hard to get their allies out of war they needed to do everything in their power to cozy up to the inevitable victors

To those keeping track, yeah I DID just express disapproval of three entirely separate entities in a single post. Deal w/it
[/quote]

i am still quite amused at people coming to the conclusion that Polaris is trying to get on the "winning" side while they are still fighting on the "losing" side... Polaris is honoring treaties with MK and GR as well as NSO and is being beat on by several alliances.

also, i doubt that Polaris has sat back and did nothing while NSO was still not peaced out from the \m/-Polaris war and i doubt that they will do nothing now to end this war.

not to mention the fact that Polaris has already pissed off many alliances on the "winning" side and has now pissed off many alliances on the "losing" side all for the sake of their allies and (in the beginning) their morals and principles.

[Ejayrazz]

[quote name='wickedj' date='06 February 2010 - 05:42 PM' timestamp='1265496135' post='2165238']
Duh?

Lot of tech = lot of damage...i thought this was common knowledge(though TOP and IRON have fallen quite hard too)
[/quote]
Cause they are fighting multiple enemies. Skill only goes so far in CN, it's about preparation. Duh.

[Kortal]

Yes, clearly MK/GR came to polar first asking them to honor their treaty several days after it would have been activated while NpO was on the opposite side of the conflict.

And polar in their courageous and self-sacrificing nature decided to overextend themselves to attack TOP just to be a good friend, without any expectation of gain on their own part.

You're adorable

[Caesius]

[quote name='shahenshah' date='06 February 2010 - 04:26 PM' timestamp='1265491605' post='2165141']
Did you inform Polaris about the incoming attacks and to get them onto hold..you know..as you say in the spirit of 'trying to end the conflict'?
[/quote]

What incoming attacks? "Ours?"

And the middle part of your statement is difficult to parse.

[lanceman1972]

Grub,

You couldn't have picked a worse week to go off your meds. Thanks for the maximum lulz though.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Kortal' date='06 February 2010 - 04:57 PM' timestamp='1265497033' post='2165268']
Yes, clearly MK/GR came to polar first asking them to honor their treaty several days after it would have been activated while NpO was on the opposite side of the conflict.

And polar in their courageous and self-sacrificing nature decided to overextend themselves to attack TOP just to be a good friend, without any expectation of gain on their own part.

You're adorable
[/quote]

if you are talkin to me, then i would wager that Polaris honors their treaties. what gain has this actually got them? more alliances pissed at Polaris including another ally (NSO)? more damage that will most likely come from TOP? a significant weakening of their public image and relations with other alliances?

oh yes, such a grand gain they have made.

you're soooo adorable.

[Kortal]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='06 February 2010 - 06:06 PM' timestamp='1265497574' post='2165293']
if you are talkin to me, then i would wager that Polaris honors their treaties. what gain has this actually got them? more alliances pissed at Polaris including another ally (NSO)? more damage that will most likely come from TOP? a significant weakening of their public image and relations with other alliances?

oh yes, such a grand gain they have made.

you're soooo adorable.
[/quote]
wow thanks :3

And right but lets consider that more deeply. More damage from TOP, pissing off allies and enemies alike, weakening public image. One has to ask oneself exactly why someone would do something that caused all of these things. Polar is not exactly known for an alliance eager to take damage (though who is really) nor one that's very interested in helping out all of their allies at whatever cost to themselves (they were at the very least aware of TOP's plan of attacking MK before it happened as you'll recall). Next, we need to consider what they stood to gain.

Now surrender terms we can only guess at, but I would surmise that due to this little side-straddling move, polar will end up either paying less reps themselves, or, since I could see them getting out with white peace at the end of this, perhaps it might simply make others more likely to let polar/nso/iron out sooner/at all.

Realigning themselves with SF/CnG is a little easier though. We can clearly see in this thread that MK members are already starting to be a lot nicer to polar and are actually defending them pretty heavily. And why not, polar has effectively become an attack dog for them, and no one likes it when their dog is called out on some retarded move (mine knocked a neighbor down recently and I chewed her out pretty well when she came to complain). But metaphors aside, we can clearly see what they stood to gain/have gained right in this very thread. Things seem a bit clearer now right?