astronaut jones

[quote name='BamaBuc' date='05 March 2010 - 02:23 PM' timestamp='1267799317' post='2214849'] This is ridiculous, for several reasons. First of all, it specifically says "If either party BREAKS the treaty..." Do I need to make that any clearer? You still broke the treaty. It was a year ago and all, but at least call it what it is. Second, if TPF had intended that clause as a loophole, they probably wouldn't have specifically stated that the attacker is breaking the treaty. Third, while I have admittedly never seen such a clause used elsewhere, it's really common sense. When one side starts attacking the other, I'd say the treaty is torn to shreds and no longer exists at that point. PC may be different, but if TOOL were attacked by a treaty partner, I highly doubt that our milcom would tell us not to fight back until the cancellation clause ran out. Do you honestly believe that an alliance is still bound by a treaty once its treaty partner starts attacking it? -Bama EDIT: You are incorrect. The wording is along the lines of "If either party breaks the treaty, it is null and void." It specifically states that it is voided by the treaty being broken, which is an illegal action. If it had said "If either party attacks the other, it's void", then perhaps a good e-lawyer could have made the case for attacking an NAP partner being legal (lol), but that is not the case. It's more along the lines of what Soccerbum said, though put into writing rather than being an unwritten rule as it usually is. -Bama [/quote] You do know that you're not a real lawyer, right? You do realize that TPF had zero intention of upholding that treaty, right? You do know that the only reason TPF had PC sign it, forced them to sign it, is so they could keep them under their thumb, right? You do know that neither allianced liked each other, and neither alliance would have had any sort of treaty between them if one weren't forced upon one of the parties by the other party, right? And you're still going to sit there and claim that TPF was wronged? $%&@ me. I hate this place so much these days, people are too blinded by their allegiances to admit when their friends were !@#$@#$ ***** to begin with, and maybe if they weren't ***** then this wouldn't have been an issue. edit: self censorship.

[quote name='Lusitan' date='05 March 2010 - 05:34 AM' timestamp='1267767537' post='2214631'] While I agree it was regretful TPF forced PC to sign any treaty (through whatever circumstances), bottomline is that Poison Clan gave their word they would not attack TPF without holding a period of notice and they revealed their word is without value. It might have been advantageous to them, they might have given their word in unfair circumstances, but they did it, and by their own choice they withdrew all the value from it. And anyway, I thought someone forced to sign treaties (such as surrender terms, though that NAP fits like a glove) while being pushed around made those treaties acceptable because they were signed and accepted by the alliance in question [/quote] So, you're saying that things said under duress, when you have no other choice but to say those things and sign whatever they put in front of you, must be upheld. Please see my other statements in regards to the kind of person who would be appalled at the cancellation of such a treaty.

[quote name='The Big Bad' date='05 March 2010 - 01:45 AM' timestamp='1267753735' post='2214365'] Because you can commit aggresion without a DoW. If PC attacked a TPF ally the terms of the treaty would be broken and TPF could attack and not have to wait 10 days to defend its ally. They did not trust you so they needed that term so PC would not try and use the NAP as a weapon. In the end they were right. [/quote] It was TPFs fault for forcing them to sign it in the first place. If TPF put any stock at all in that treaty, they were, at best, very misguided. But, you and I both know that the only reason TPF ever !@#$%*ed about the way that treaty was cancelled is because they were out manuevered, very simply and very easily, by an alliance they viewed as inferior.

[quote name='Aeternos Astramora' date='05 March 2010 - 12:06 AM' timestamp='1267747794' post='2214232'] What's not what you said? I quoted you exactly and responded appropriately. [/quote] What I said and what you thought I said were two completely different things entirely. What I said and what you hoped I meant are even further apart. I suggest you think over what I said. I never knew you were someone that needed everything spelled out to the last letter.

[quote name='Aeternos Astramora' date='04 March 2010 - 11:17 PM' timestamp='1267744860' post='2214155'] Are you saying TPF didn't expect PC to break the treaty? That's a separate issue. The fact is the PC did break the treaty. Article 3: Cancellation Either Party may cancel this agreement. Once one party notifies the other with their intent to cancel, the Pact stays in effect for 10 days. If either party breaks the pact, it is considered null and void. You broke the pact when you could have canceled it. You might have been forced to sign it. I don't know. However, you still could have canceled it. It's right there. [/quote] That's not what I said at all. I suggest you think a little harder.

[quote name='Aeternos Astramora' date='04 March 2010 - 11:12 PM' timestamp='1267744548' post='2214153'] Yes. It has a cancellation period on it. USE IT! Breaking a treaty is totally dishonorable. Oh, sure it was. Of course, you can't prove it at all. It's completely impossible. Ironically, anybody on the TOP/IRON side of this war that says, "CnG was going to attack us anyway," is ridiculed by everyone on your side. The fact remains that the PC-TPF treaty breaking was one of the most egregious in CN history. [/quote] Only an idiot would expect an alliance to honour a treaty it was forced to sign. Only an idiot would be appalled when that treaty is broken.

[quote name='Aeternos Astramora' date='04 March 2010 - 11:02 PM' timestamp='1267743965' post='2214142'] It doesn't matter whether you hate each other. You don't break treaties. PC broke it. Breaking the treaty canceled it, but the breaking of the treaty still occurred. However, this is off-topic. I think it would be awesome if the MCXA-IRON treaty was the longest treaty with a defensive close. I remember most of IRON being like "wtf?" when Freezer signed it saying that it was either treaty them or get rolled by FAN. [/quote] Get the $%&@ off your high horse, treaties are broken all the time. You're going to tell me that a treaty that was FORCED upon one of the parties is something that was to be kept and honoured? I don't think so. And as I said, neither party was going to honour that treaty, TPF just lost the draw on that one. edit; and whether you like it or not, whether you want to believe it or not, that treaty was going to be broken by TPF. TPF had no intentions at all of honouring that treaty, if push came to shove. They were simply too slow, because, and trust me on this, there is no love for Poison Clan in TPF, and there is no love for TPF in poison clan, and there never has been anything close.

[quote name='Mr Damsky' date='04 March 2010 - 09:42 PM' timestamp='1267739179' post='2214023'] You at PC have no right to talk. Remember that little NAP you guys held with TPF before Karma? You know, the one you "canceled" by breaking. [/quote] I know I said that I was ordered to keep radio silence, but I still monitor these channels, as my spaceship is still flying high above planet bob, waiting for clearance to re-enter the atmosphere. It'll take 3 or 4 days they said, but whatever, in the meantime I have to say this. No one in their right mind can say that the treaty between PC and TPF was signed out of anything other than fear, duress, or whatever other negative term you can think of. It was not a treaty that would have otherwise existed if it were not necessary for PC to get out of terms with TPF. Neither alliance liked each other, and neither alliance was going to honour that treaty. Many of the people in Poison Clan, those that started Poison Clan, came from TPF, and virtually every single one left because of what they at the time thought was, for lack of a better phrase, TPF starting to suck !@#$@#$ $@!. There was no love for TPF in poison clan, and there was even less love for poison clan in TPF. To hold the breaking of that treaty over Poison Clan's head is just foolish, as, as I have stated already, that treaty would never have been signed if it was not for the fact that it had to be signed, or PC would have been held under terms for a very long time. Taking away raiding from PC would be like taking away tech from TOP. So, yeah.. you can hold that over Poison Clan, you can hold that treaty over their head if you want to, but neither side cared for the other, neither side liked each other, that treaty would not have been signed if not for it being forced on PC, and it would have been broken by either side the very first chance they got. If PC waited, probably a DAY, TPF would have broke that treaty.

Welp, I've got to prepare for re-entry now. Dope mission control has told me to go into radio silence and actually start doing work and !@#$, instead of just flying around in my fly-$@! spaceship and buzzing vorpulonians and getting them to shake their fat @#$% for me. So, radio silence time. I got work to do, things to prepare for, civilian life to look forward to. Bye-bye!

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='01 March 2010 - 04:47 PM' timestamp='1267462269' post='2209984'] ...and 500+ nations think I should mock you for your insults to Sparta, does that answer your question? As Ephor of Foreign Affairs, is it my job to be an avatar of cowardice, or the avenging sword of Sparta? You can complain all you want about my conduct in this thread, but if you read back over it I've only attacked those people who have showed a marked bias against us and have been attacking us themselves, and my attacks haven't even been overly vicious, the've merely been sarcastic mockeries of our detractors. As for you? Well thus far you've called me an !@#$%^&, that's more than I've done to you. Telling me you're not badmouthing Sparta, having looked over your posts several times in this thread, is ridiculous to the point I'm semi-concerned for your mental health--yes you have been badmouthing Sparta. I expected lies, but I didn't expect them to be that bald-faced. I'm not really concerned with your opinions, like I've said already a half dozen times in this thread: the biases are fairly clear here, nobody is going to win anyone over with clever or civil arguments. You'll notice that I've treated the roughly neutral posters in this thread accordingly, and those who have simply asked questions without posturing or insulting implications got prompt, civil responses. So here's a thought: if you want me to react in a civil manner, how about you drop the !@#$%^&* and act civil. Otherwise, flame away, and I'll keep treating you as such. Oh, and there's an old parable you might find useful in future, how does it go... "Remove the log from your own eye before you remove the splinter from your brother's"? I would welcome some well-reasoned and intelligent debate in an appropriately constructed thread. I even consider making one myself, but for now I have to babysit this thread until it becomes something other than a cesspool or it dies. Facts are fun [/quote] First off, I wasn't complaining. I was offering up some advice in a manner that wasn't even remotely trying to be confrontational. Second off, I said I wasn't badmouthing sparta, I meant for that post. Reading comprehension. Thirdly, I don't have a horse in this race, as I have stated before. I neither hate sparta, nor like sparta, I am not allied to them nor am I against them. Now, that being out of the way, all your points being .. well, garbage now, I'm going to say this to you person to person, without bias, without any hint of animosity. You should take your own advice about dropping the attitude though, but for your sake, I will start. When you act like an !@#$%^&, people will treat you like one. That is fine in my case, because who am I at this point in time? I'm not government, I'm not even in an alliance that's not my own for the purposes of having a bit of fun. I can get away with getting into a pissing contest with you, because if it makes me look bad, then so what, it hurts no one. If you get into a pissing contest with me, or with anyone, and it makes you look bad? It also makes sparta look bad. Be smarter about your interactions. That's all. Just be smarter about your interactions.

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='01 March 2010 - 03:59 PM' timestamp='1267459390' post='2209956'] Judging my, and more generally Sparta's Foreign Affairs based on a single thread would seem poor policy. [/quote] But when you're the FA guy for sparta and you generally come off as an !@#$%^&, well.. think about it. When you're in government, your posts, whether you want them to or not, are a representative of your alliance as a whole. If you come off as an !@#$%^&, if you come off as someone who's just trying to agitate and stir the pot with a generally !@#$%* attitude, then people are going to think "wow, sparta put this guy in office? what a !@#$hole they must be" It's probably not true, but you're a public face for sparta. Everything you do is under a microscope. [edit:] no, I'm not badmouthing sparta, but you can't get into a pissing contest with people whenever you feel like it, being in government. Being in government requires a certain amount of tact, you have to carry yourself a certain way and not use the "cold sarcasm" (which is way, way off what it actually was) of yours. You're in government, your posts represent sparta.. you gotta do better. I have the luxury of answering to no one, I can say whatever the hell I want and not have to worry about how I come across.. you're representing 500+ nations.

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='01 March 2010 - 03:03 AM' timestamp='1267412797' post='2209316'] DON'T MAKE FUN, PEARL! This is serious business! Can't you see what has happened to these poor, misguided people? They were once a proud race, men who built mighty, towering metropoli, with tech as far as the eye can see! We robbed them of that, Pearl, we robbed them of their civilization, their reputation, their dignity, and when the nukes came down few were spared the unspeakable holocaust that ensued. Sure, a handful survived here and there, living in sewers--and under bridges, shielded from the radiation to a degree, but little now remains of what they once were. They are horrid, mutated monsters, not men. They have nothing now, Pearl, all they have is a dream, one lasting ambition: to bash Sparta in an incredibly stupid, and unbelievably petty Karma thread. You have my deeper sympathies, and my lasting respect, my mutated bridge-dwelling friends. Semper Fi. [/quote] One last time, because your allies were superior, does not mean that you were.

[quote name='Seth Muscarella' date='01 March 2010 - 02:28 AM' timestamp='1267410743' post='2209259'] That would be quite the accomplishment if true. I've been in Sparta my entire existence and have gotten virtually every nation-building and warfighting strategy from there. My nation is/was a powerhouse in a very short time. You know why? I read the guides and ask questions. Sparta being an open alliance, we get many that don't take knowledge from experience seriously; they are eventually purged. Many more learn and become great fighters in Sparta. Point being, you probably don't know more ;-) [/quote] No, I'm pretty sure I do.

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='01 March 2010 - 02:18 AM' timestamp='1267410093' post='2209238'] Well... schizophrenia is not out of the question, that's a viable diagnosis for hearing things that aren't real... But I'm guessing you've been exposed to a near-lethal dose of whining propaganda from the not-so-fortunate side of this war, who are desperately attempting to turn a military defeat in to a PR victory. I call these factual mistruths 'lies', or 'bull%^&*'. It's a new concept, I know, why would anyone try to mislead somebody, especially for their own profit, but I'm afraid it's happening. Gone are the days of honest men in CN, thank you very much opposition. [/quote] So if the days of honesty are gone, why should anyone believe you?

[quote name='Pearl' date='01 March 2010 - 02:15 AM' timestamp='1267409962' post='2209235'] A one man alliance? Awesome! Can I join? It sounds like I can learnz war fieghting skilllz from u. [/quote] You know what? You probably could. I've been around a long time, and I probably know more than anyone in your alliance does.