Sigrun Vapneir Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I'm sorry Walsh it doesnt work that way and you have definitely been around long enough to know it. Anyway you're still arguing the situation a week ago. It's not last week anymore. Don't misunderstand me, I do get where you are coming from and I sympathize. But we are where we are. Enjoy the war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walshington Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Meth, you keep saying dre4m wanted to be bought out yet it was yo offering tech and cash for him to peace out with you. Offers that were outright refused by him. Should I post the screenshots? The ones of you trying to buy your way out of getting nuked. You know the ones. The messages sent to dre4m,smurthwaite and the offers made and refused in the peace talks Let's not, buddy. If we need to share those we always can, but let's just leave it at "Meth's diplomacy left something to be desired" for the time being. I think people who read the OWF get it, no need to embarrass people in public at this juncture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Wow fuckin' spoiler alert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walshington Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I'm sorry Walsh it doesnt work that way and you have definitely been around long enough to know it. Anyway you're still arguing the situation a week ago. It's not last week anymore. Don't misunderstand me, I do get where you are coming from and I sympathize. But we are where we are. Enjoy the war. Well, I'm arguing the situation a week ago because THAT is where this thing should have ended. And it seemed to work for FAN. I guess I'll check with FAN, see what their logs with Meth read like. If a mea culpa didn't do it, I should sharpen my FA skills and do what THEY did. After all, they had TWICE the number of nations attack Meth -- they must have said something TWICE as good. I'm sure the fact that they were 6 million NS was not a factor in Meth's principled stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigrun Vapneir Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I'm sure the fact that they were 6 million NS was not a factor in Meth's principled stand. Perhaps it was, would that be such a crime? You keep accusing him of being crazy then when he does something sane you try to make that sound bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walshington Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Perhaps it was, would that be such a crime? You keep accusing him of being crazy then when he does something sane you try to make that sound bad. For the record, I said he could not be reasoned with, not that he was crazy. And if he didn't hold FAN accountable because they were too tough for him, than it was not principled, it was opportunistic. Not that there is anything wrong with political opportunism, plenty of alliances do it -- but we should not call it principled when it's clearly not. But I'll withhold judgement until I talk to FAN. When I see those logs, maybe I'll find the problem with reason was my fault, not Meth's. One always has to allow for two sides of the story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigrun Vapneir Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) And if he didn't hold FAN accountable because they were too tough for him, than it was not principled, it was opportunistic. That's a very unsympathetic spin, and it seems to imply that no one with principles may use the Art of War, either Sun's or Clausewitz's. Good does not have to be stupid. Edited June 17, 2015 by Sigrun Vapneir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Hakai Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 #methrage #sigrun #eternaldebates #nologicallowed #raceto100pages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 That's a very unsympathetic spin, and it seems to imply that no one with principles may use the Art of War, either Sun's or Clausewitz's. Good does not have to be stupid.Just let it go. Nobody here is going to agree with you, because the majority of us have experienced Methrage's "logic" in action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walshington Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 That's a very unsympathetic spin, and it seems to imply that no one with principles may use the Art of War, either Sun's or Clausewitz's. Good does not have to be stupid. It's not spin, it is the truth. Principles don't change based on the strength of the alliances involved. That is why they are called principles. Look, I wouldn't want to take on FAN, either. But if he called in help on SRA because he felt his soveriegnty was being violated, and he didn't on FAN, who violated his sovereignty twice as much -- well, then he's not defending the principle of sovereignty. He's doing something else. Which isn't necessarily wrong, it's just something else. That shouldn't be hard to admit -- I've been completely frank in my decision process, sometimes publicly admitting where I went wrong. I've taken responsibility for my every decision, whether it plays well on the OWF or not. The truth is what it is. Unless, of course, FAN was THAT much better than me at the diplomacy table. I will check those logs, if they'll let me. Because if FAN outdid me in their efforts, I'd sure like to know how I could do better next time. Speaking of which, out of curiosity -- did you ever see my logs and PM's with Meth, or did he just verbally give you the high points and excerpts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) The FAN nations both lost 5-10x+ as much damage from me, as them to me. It was an honorable duel and hearing from mpol777 again was a pleasure. The other Senator bought up his tech to fight me. It was with mutual respect shown we talked quite a bit and enjoyed our duel. Having an ASS do a huge down declare on me to interrupt that fun moment, while blaming me for any nukes he sent because I tried to retaliate when he attacked, was not cool. Nothing about that was honorable, especially when he wanted to leave me wondering when he was going to attack and then blame me for his daily nukes for assuming his DoW meant he planned to nuke me anyways. The FAN nations were straight with me and it was fair odds when they came in. Dreamweaver also caused more damage to my nation than all other 5 combined, he even launched a last nuke before our war expired, after my wars with III% were expired. So it had nothing to do with their strength, but of respect. I got nothing but rude responses when I tried contacting SRA to put an end to the unwelcome extra war, along with their lower tier AA hopping to help those hitting our lower tier. So FAN was very different. Also FAN was clear with me they were just doing one round, regardless of how things went with BC. SRA decided to keep attacking us regardless of how things went with BC instead. Edited June 17, 2015 by Methrage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanth Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 First off, let's put this into perspective: Message: Yes, Margrave, he needs to look at the $%&*ing FA screens before he starts preaching. I searched Monsters Inc Foreign Aid.http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?Page=1&searchstring=All&search=Monsters%20inc There are 84 results, from 18 May up until June 14th Server Time. They used a whole 10 aid slots totaling 54,600,000 Yes one moron sent 600K He keeps bleating on about how they gave Minc massive amounts of aid? Not to say we weren't grateful- but looking more into it there were more nations associated with last nights quad from kashmir than there was ever support for us- so don't beat your chest too high on those grounds too hard. And yes, we had one Kashmiri nation ghost in. Second off- [b]our mini raids and wars have been practice for an eventual GOONs war, being a new alliance, we weren't going to hit someone of that nature without prior warring together. Of course, that is no longer on the table.[/b] Thirdly- as you already know, our war with TSO had nothing to do about a 'failed merger'. We should've never asked Kashmir for friendship the first day we formed because we had a friendship with smurf at a time where there was a lot of tension between the doom sphere and smurf. Why did I like smurf? Because post AZTEC raids on Riot Society he was the only one who's associate with us. And it's also the reason I hate Sparta- there was a time when we were working on an odp with them and at one point yeru and deathadder even asked us to draft a treaty and then post AZTEC war deathadder comes up with an excuse for calling it off because of Franz talking rotavelle into join stone and steel and forcing them to disband/merge into scar. So when smurf/kaskus stuck their neck out for us we sent a bunch of ghost to help they fight mi6. Now, being that TCA is ran out of the garage in SRA, who reports to DS- it made it plausible that DS was using SRA as a spy ring in the event of Kaskus ever getting hit because of smurf. Now when we hit tso, we new we'd see a fraction of that side and hopefully it shed light on the conflict. What we didn't know was that SRA didn't like smurf- who is no longer representing kaskus. Anyway, the core of members who formed monsters inc respected smurf. So when we formed as an entity with kaskus and kashmir we were already blackballed by dS because of our relationship with smurf. Doomsphere had been :$&/&@ing with us from day one of our existence. I was sanctioned for hitting an unaligned nation, we were threatened becuase we were doing tech deals with WTF (deals that occured months before DBDC even hit wtf). Ghost ordered tcA to try to start a perma war between ANIMALZ and us and do so quietly as DS and kashmir were friends. And I've adressed this with Lord Hershey who told be that we are viewed as a 'smurf puppet' and not as a kashmir ally. And I've adressed these issues with sir william. Now you can boast about how you gave us a 'chance' and I can tell you bull !@#$. Sir Williams at one point asked us to merge into kashmir and we said no because we wanted to help out smurf/kaskus in the event of an uproar. Now you can take your high horse somewhere else, BMTH- probably the biggest Kashmir fan ever on Bob wanted to break our friendship months ago and I tried to just see where it would go- and we did- and it's for the best at this point. Kashmir alwsys prided themselves on being different- having no treaties, etc etc etc- and really you are the same type of alliance as the others you attempt to seperate yourselves from. The majority of you wars will be dog piles with DS (ex. Short stint on invicta) and warring SUN. People like master hakai- we've talked a lot about planet Bob and it's boredom, the problem is that he wants other people to do stuff, he doesn't want to stick his neck out. So don't piss on our back and then tell us it's raining. Wait, did you just admit on the owf that you were actively planning on and training to attack goons? Isn't this the screenshot incident all over again for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kiloist Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Having an ASS do a huge down declare on me to interrupt that fun moment, while blaming me for any nukes he sent Ohhh boy the irony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenMorningstar Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Wait, did you just admit on the owf that you were actively planning on and training to attack goons? Isn't this the screenshot incident all over again for you? We are pretty used to that, so it's no big deal to us. Keep in mind as much as everyone talks about how terrible we are we deal with this crap constantly. Admittedly we bring a lot of it on ourselves. I will say this has a lot of parallels to the last Limited Nexus war we had. They decided to get a few more attacks in before sending peace after it was brokered, some of their guys went 2 days past the effective peace date and I didn't accept it and we mobilized the entire AA to smash them. Methface cried just as loud then as he is now, but he still didn't learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurthwaite Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 We are pretty used to that, so it's no big deal to us. Keep in mind as much as everyone talks about how terrible we are we deal with this crap constantly. Admittedly we bring a lot of it on ourselves. I will say this has a lot of parallels to the last Limited Nexus war we had. They decided to get a few more attacks in before sending peace after it was brokered, some of their guys went 2 days past the effective peace date and I didn't accept it and we mobilized the entire AA to smash them. Methface cried just as loud then as he is now, but he still didn't learn. Walsh didn't call him crazy, but I guess Ken just did. We all know the definition of insanity, and it's pretty easy to apply it to Meth here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walshington Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 The FAN nations both lost 5-10x+ as much damage from me, as them to me. It was an honorable duel and hearing from mpol777 again was a pleasure. The other Senator bought up his tech to fight me. It was with mutual respect shown we talked quite a bit and enjoyed our duel. Having an ASS do a huge down declare on me to interrupt that fun moment, while blaming me for any nukes he sent because I tried to retaliate when he attacked, was not cool. Nothing about that was honorable, especially when he wanted to leave me wondering when he was going to attack and then blame me for his daily nukes for assuming his DoW meant he planned to nuke me anyways. The FAN nations were straight with me and it was fair odds when they came in. Dreamweaver also caused more damage to my nation than all other 5 combined, he even launched a last nuke before our war expired, after my wars with III% were expired. So it had nothing to do with their strength, but of respect. I got nothing but rude responses when I tried contacting SRA to put an end to the unwelcome extra war, along with their lower tier AA hopping to help those hitting our lower tier. So FAN was very different. Also FAN was clear with me they were just doing one round, regardless of how things went with BC. SRA decided to keep attacking us regardless of how things went with BC instead. See now, there are a couple interesting things come to light in this post, and a couple interesting things that didn't. Let's look: First, it's nice to know that the principle of sovereignty was not your beef -- it was that the FAN guys did a lot less damage than Dre4m. That is a function of war, my friend. Right now, in this conflict, I am handing some guy named King Neptune his ass on a platter, while simultaneously some guy named PuliSher is handing mine to me. It's the way wars go, Meth -- sometimes you're the bug, and sometimes you're the windshield. It is mechanics, and we generally do not hobble ourselves because our opponent is at a disadvantage (although I wish this PuliSher guy would give it all due consideration). You also mention rude responses from Dre4m. I have to tell you, I've read that entire message stream. I'm getting pressure from my guys to post it here, but I am resisting because it would be tremendously unflattering. To you. And I find log dumping... distasteful. You also mention that the the FAN guys only took you for a round. Check the war screens and you will find that Dre4m also went one round with you. You also mention that SRA continued attacking you. That is correct, but you leave out a little context. We attacked ONE guy -- not coincidentally, the guy who attacked and/or spied on two of our guys, neither of whom had attacked LN or aided Dre4m. You may argue that we had it coming, but to leave it out there without the context, or worse inserting the context that it had anything to do with BC, is not fair. Just tell me we are not at war right now because Dre4m fights well, is rude, and SRA attacked a guy who attacked us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helbrecht Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 You aren't a libertarian. You're a lazy dictator with the gift of gab. You strip naked the goddess of liberty and attempt to parade her about as your strumpet; we are not fooled, nor shall long a freedom loving race of men suffer the besmirchment of noble virtues such as those you falsely espouse to fuel your megalomania. You are a criminal and justice shall be visited upon you with a fury. Sigrun, you have made common cause with a thief, and you are speaking in defense of a child long in need of punishment. Don't dirty yourself in common cause with such as these. Oh alrighty theN. Dont give a hoot about what this brouhaha is due to. This post though, the one i quoted ought to be the benchmark for inter nation communication henceforth. /me tips hat at Margrave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I really want to see these messages now since they keep getting brought up. Methrage stop bringing things up if you're not going to post them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingzog Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Second off- our mini raids and wars have been practice for an eventual GOONs war.... Translation: Dear GOONS, If you would like to raid us until the end of time, we have just given you an excuse to do so. Sincerely, Monsters Inc. I would suggest that you just merge with LN now and get it over with. The combination of insanity, meaningless bravado and public gaffes would keep our world spinning for many, many years to come. You and Meth both seem to enjoy being the center of attention, too. Think about it. Promise me you'll think about it. Also, I enjoy the way Meth tries to spin the difference between FAN and any other alliance attacking him. Fact is, he let FAN walk away because he knew that FAN would hound him to Hell and back. That's it. He can spin it as "they were polite" or any other way he pleases, but the fact is that he blinked. Right now it seems that Meth has put himself in a position so that AAs will simply take turns beating his Legion of the Unwell (or whatever they're calling themselves this week) while the rest of the world points and laughs. Finally.... Methrage, there is a significant difference between "of" and "have". If you have any love left for the English language, please learn it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernkastel Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 First off, let's put this into perspective: Message: Yes, Margrave, he needs to look at the $%&*ing FA screens before he starts preaching. I searched Monsters Inc Foreign Aid.http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?Page=1&searchstring=All&search=Monsters%20inc There are 84 results, from 18 May up until June 14th Server Time. They used a whole 10 aid slots totaling 54,600,000 Yes one moron sent 600K He keeps bleating on about how they gave Minc massive amounts of aid? Not to say we weren't grateful- We should have left you to rot after your stupid baiting for war anywhere you could. I've been in the constant micro drama road and I didn't like it. I was one of the few people absolutely and totally opposed to maintaining a relationship with you. Everyone else had high hopes you'd get your act together. I didn't. I just wanted you gone, peace preferred, from our little circle of friends. Kashmir has been nothing but patient with your actions and your constant drama llamas. They've spent so much time, effort and money and it's all gone to complete waste. I'm also going to state for the record that I thought you were in the wrong and I gladly gave aid to TSO. You have been nothing but a constant traffic cone in our rear. I, for one, am not shocked at all where we are at now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonewall14 Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 #methrage #sigrun #eternaldebates #nologicallowed #raceto100pages Now dats funny rat der, I don'care hoo u r... :v: Elephants, Red Asses and Flying Sabres oh My... :awesome: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Translation: Dear GOONS, If you would like to raid us until the end of time, we have just given you an excuse to do so. Sincerely, Monsters Inc. I would suggest that you just merge with LN now and get it over with. The combination of insanity, meaningless bravado and public gaffes would keep our world spinning for many, many years to come. You and Meth both seem to enjoy being the center of attention, too. Think about it. Promise me you'll think about it. Also, I enjoy the way Meth tries to spin the difference between FAN and any other alliance attacking him. Fact is, he let FAN walk away because he knew that FAN would hound him to Hell and back. That's it. He can spin it as "they were polite" or any other way he pleases, but the fact is that he blinked. Right now it seems that Meth has put himself in a position so that AAs will simply take turns beating his Legion of the Unwell (or whatever they're calling themselves this week) while the rest of the world points and laughs. Finally.... Methrage, there is a significant difference between "of" and "have". If you have any love left for the English language, please learn it. I feel like I've gained a new follower, with you following me around and making all your posts about me. I think you're just jealous I took the Senate and kept it, rather than the rogue stuff you did when you got a seat for a short time on red. Edited June 17, 2015 by Methrage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I feel like I've gained a new follower, with you following me around and making all your posts about me. I think you're just jealous I took the Senate and kept it, rather than the rogue stuff you did when you got a seat for a short time on red.yeah ok guy zog wouldn't have kept the senate seat if [OOC: game mechanics] some mysterious power hadn't prevented it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Layton Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 There's no conspiracy to attack the GOONS. The GOONS will be protectorates of War Jesus. I'm drawing up the treaty as we speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 *snip* I would suggest that you just merge with LN now and get it over with. *snip* Oh god no. That would be entirely too much stupid in one place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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