Another Statement from BFF

[Sniper Joe]

[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1358204713' post='3076400']
VE and I were in the same club... damn

*someone has to put some kind of humor in here*
[/quote]

I am a passionate young man, full of love and venom.

To add on to what Chax said above...I meant everything I said in the OP. This guy is one of the greatest friends I've ever had and one of the coolest people I've ever met. I hate this more than probably anyone besides him. I'm just trying to determine the truth and do the right thing for my alliance. As soap opera-esque as CN can be, this is not me being machiavellian. I wish it was. If I came up with this on my own I'd be a goddamn genius.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Sniper Joe

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1358193156' post='3076244']
[b]This has now caused a knock on affect[/b] and INT (which we already know are fair weather friends) dropped them as well, (no surprise there).
[/quote]
Well, no it didn't. Unless we have some new revelatory thread from NEW stating that they did in fact inform INT (as per their treaty) of what they were intending, INT had every right to view it as a violation of their treaty and do what they did.

Don't tell fibs man, it gets you no where and reduces your credibility to nil.

e:

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1358196130' post='3076290']
Now, with everything clarified is BFF [b]and INT[/b] resigning the treaties they canceled because Chax manipulated the information? I (can only) hope so.
[/quote]
What does INT's cancellation of their treaty with NEW have to do with BFF, Chax and doctored logs? I'll refer to the relevant OP - if you can find anything that links the two, please feel free to share:

[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=114726"]http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=114726[/url]

Edited January 14, 2013 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz

[Stewie]

It's a Xiphosis led coup of BFF by SniperJoe...


[img]http://www.israellycool.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/StewieGriffin.png[/img]

[President Gunn]

Knowing Chax as well as I do, I don't think he lied/edited logs/ etc...

Edited January 14, 2013 by President Gunn

[Roadie]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1358203014' post='3076391']
The remote access does not make the logs 100% irrefutable. And to think it does, is silly. I could have a conversation with you on IRC about the weather, then afterwards, go to my logs folder in my client, edit the logs in notepad, save them over the existing log, then open them in my clients Log Viewer. The logs would appear to be on my client and not in a broken text form, but I will still have changed what they say. I dont know what did or did not happen, but the mere fact of a remote access does NOT make anything irrefutable. If you doubt me... shoot me a query on IRC, then give me an hour and I will show you that log, IN MY CLIENT, saying something totally different. Its not hard at all.
[/quote]

I'll hit you up on irc shortly. Bros will then remotely access your computer.

I honestly have to agree with you here. I don't see how remote access proves anything.

[BloodFury]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1358203014' post='3076391']
The remote access does not make the logs 100% irrefutable. And to think it does, is silly. I could have a conversation with you on IRC about the weather, then afterwards, go to my logs folder in my client, edit the logs in notepad, save them over the existing log, then open them in my clients Log Viewer. The logs would appear to be on my client and not in a broken text form, but I will still have changed what they say. I dont know what did or did not happen, but the mere fact of a remote access does NOT make anything irrefutable. If you doubt me... shoot me a query on IRC, then give me an hour and I will show you that log, IN MY CLIENT, saying something totally different. Its not hard at all.
[/quote]

Cannot agree more on this situation and voice my view on it better than Rush Sykes has.

[bombuator]

Seriously how are we supposed believe Chax altered those shots? You had your hands on them SniperJoe you could have done it yourself posted in BFF's Gov forums to make everyone else be on your side to just get Chax out of BFF because he didn't want to do what you did. And even if that's not the case why do you go straight to the OWF that is showing NO class to Chax, you could have easily just gone to your own Gov forums and figured it out.

[King Wally]

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1358205309' post='3076407']
It's a Xiphosis led coup of BFF by SniperJoe...


[img]http://www.israellycool.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/StewieGriffin.png[/img]
[/quote]

[i]And we would have got away with it too if it wasn't for you pesky kids![/i]


Serously though, what a mess. Good luck sorting this one out guys.

[The Pansy]

[quote name='AndrewHG' timestamp='1358205074' post='3076403']
looks like a coup, quacks like a coup. It is a coup.
[/quote]
I can confirm, Sniper Joe is a Duckroll plant.

[shirunei]

[quote name='AndrewHG' timestamp='1358205074' post='3076403']
looks like a coup, quacks like a coup. It is a coup.
[/quote]
I think you should look up the definition of coup. Doesn't quite fit.

[Altheus]

Best of luck to you Sniper Joe in sorting all this out. Also to the BFF in general.

To those feeling that they need more information, I don't want to start pulling "private channels for the win" memes (because that's annoying), but for your own enquiries, would it not be better to contact the relevant bodies in private? As clearly not every detail is going to be posted on this thread.

[President Gunn]

Chax has proved to me that he didn't fake them, by the same way these screenshots were supposedly "proven" to be real. Except, I'm probably a little more in depth since I know how easy it is to edit HTML in any modern browser. I could edit my Facebook messages to say anything I want and then let you remote in to see them, and I actually did. So I'm not buying this little witch hunt.

[K1L1O]

Thank you Robster and co that helped so much even there's no particular interest to NEW

FYI, we're monitoring OWF periodically but because of our lack of english-writing skill makes us hold back to post on OWF to response any questions/curiousities. HIt on our irc or forum to address the issues, but please use words that can be found on dictionary, and no twisted words since it's difficult to understand the meaning of twisted words.

Thanks Judge X that relayed our words in this thread, i must emphasized once again that NEW's aid purposely only to retaliated to Shangri-La's aid. It's just to make things back to square one, even there was no order from our top gov to prepare for wars after aid bomb. Still we accepted that such actions would endangered our allies in some level, hence we prepared to do diplomatical actions to resolve things, but situation went too fast.

Now the truth revealed, we can go back and enjoy our infra building. NEW maybe quiet but if you came to her with promise of war, whether it would be lose side, as long as loyalty is the main issue, we could go anywhere for you.

Warm greetings for ex-members of FEAR and WP, we won't generalize all BFF members over Chax's actions

[Groucho Marx]

The "evidence" coming from Robster of all people, and through remote access to boot, doesn't sit right with me. I trust BFF's inquiry will turn up the truth but until such a time I cannot trust the validity of the source. I wish Chax and BFF all the best in this matter.

[New Frontier]

Big fan of NPO (and others) making this thread about them.

Both Chax and Sniperjoe are personal friends of myself and BFF's other allies. Speaking for Deinos, BFF has complete support and the thoughts of outside parties aren't going to change that. Speaking as a member of the large group of alliances who consider BFF (and its government) an important part of our present and future, I can say that BFF is handling this as well as can be hoped for, and enjoys our complete support.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358196991' post='3076303']
Just saying there's reasonable doubt SniperJoe. I'm inclined to believe Chax was up to some shenanigans. I'm just saying you guys are doing a pisspoor job of convincing anyone that likes to use their brain with what you have given. You seem to believe that since you gave us a tiny snippet of Chax changing a few words but hardly the meaning of some logs that we should believe everything you say about the guy....it may work on some mopes but you'll have to do better for most others.
[/quote]
You have a doubt, but it is not reasonable. We know from hints in this thread that the logs contain information about BFF's plans for a potential war. Sorry, bub, you don't get to see that.

[quote name='Judge X' timestamp='1358196689' post='3076297']
There is quite a bit more information out there. Even more than what BFF/Robster83 hold. Posting 1/50th of the logs, to me, is not damning in any respect of Chax on the OWF. I have to agree with MagicNinja whole heartedly. He is making observations on the information he has while he is being told he is wrong(at the very least. Almost to the point of being called an idiot in my opinion) because there are a lot more logs. To infer that he is incorrect is ludicrous because he is 100% on point for the information that he has. the other 49/50th be damned. If your not going to give up the information then don't argue about information he doesn't have.
[/quote]
What you're arguing here is that truth is dependent upon knowledge. I can look at mice breeding in dirt piles of rags and conclude that mice are the product of dirty rags, that dones't make me "100% on point" It makes me ignorant. And that's what MagicNinja is. If someone who isn't ignorant explains to me that adult mice screw and then the babies come out of the female, I'm not virtuous for holding onto my ignorant assumption, I'm being an obstinant ass.

MagicNinja likes to argue for arguments' sake, which is why everyone can't stand him. He's just doing more of the same now.

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1358198441' post='3076319']
I have great faith in the legal system of BFF and hope that this will be worked out to the fullest as soon as possible. Granted, I'm not allowed to see my own trial, nor am I being allowed to defend myself in said trial, but I imagine something will come of it.
[/quote]
Perhaps when you were writing the laws you should have written them in a way that you could tolerate if you were ever held accountable to them. Too late to whine.
[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358200104' post='3076344']
Furthermore screenshots are not that reliable when it comes to logs anyway. One could edit logs in notepad or wordpad or whayever and then plug them back into their chat client to screenshot. Everyone should know this.
[/quote]
[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1358200495' post='3076351']
Okay so I have read the thread. There is some good talk her about BFF supporting/wanting or some such nature an attack on the NPO. I have not seen this please point this out. Furthermore you say this is 1/50th of the log and we shouldn't make assumptions on it.... so show us the whole thing so proper decisions and review can be had.
[/quote]
Brehon, you know as well as I do that if you want some official talks with BFF further than what they've posted then the place to do it is not on page 11 of a thread on the OWF.

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1358203014' post='3076391']
The remote access does not make the logs 100% irrefutable. And to think it does, is silly. I could have a conversation with you on IRC about the weather, then afterwards, go to my logs folder in my client, edit the logs in notepad, save them over the existing log, then open them in my clients Log Viewer. The logs would appear to be on my client and not in a broken text form, but I will still have changed what they say. I dont know what did or did not happen, but the mere fact of a remote access does NOT make anything irrefutable. If you doubt me... shoot me a query on IRC, then give me an hour and I will show you that log, IN MY CLIENT, saying something totally different. Its not hard at all.
[/quote]
These are not IRC logs, they're Facebook instant messages stored by Facebook ad infinitum for data mining pruposes. A remote access client has been used to view the IM on Facebook.

Now tell me about how you could totally h4x FB and change the convo with your 1337 skillz and change the files' timestamps and get Zuckerburg's waist size.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Schattenmann

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358201867' post='3076375']
VE have been the only ones who seem to care so much.
[/quote]

Oh come now, don't be silly. I have 5 posts in this thread including this one, Goldie has 3 posts, you, magicninja, [i]have 21 posts in this thread[/i]. That is the most out of anyone who has replied here by a large, large margin. If you want to equate posts to ulterior motives, it seems you are the one who has some sort of agenda.

Listen, keep your focus. I was not trying to make you feel bad, I was genuinely trying to help you understand the facts at hand and their implications on BFF's actions here.

Further, I think you are thoroughly misunderstanding the point I've been trying to make to you. I have not spoken to the technical aspects of the situation, and I have no idea if the evidence is irrefutable (tech stuff isn't my thing). What I am speaking to is the reasonableness of BFF's actions here. Given the facts as they know them now, they took the steps which any responsible alliance would. The alternative was let both allies and enemies alike think they have been deceived by BFF as a whole. In a world such as this, that is not an option.

As I noted a few times now, the fact that there is no 'why' also does not sit well with me. I think more facts will develop, though what they are I cannot say. Maybe Chax had good reason to do what he did, from what I understand he's a good guy. Maybe there is a nefarious 3rd party at work. Whatever the case, it has no relation to BFF responding in a proper manner here. What I do know though is that there is no reason for you to make 21 posts here decrying BFF and they did what any responsible alliance would in the situation. If additional aspects to this situation develop, I absolutely believe that BFF will handle them with the same responsibility and rationality that they have here.

[hobbies0310]

I want to know who this Robster guy is and how he got the logs lol

Edited January 14, 2013 by hobbies0310

[President Gunn]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1358207638' post='3076430']
Now tell me about how you could totally h4x FB and change the convo with your 1337 skillz and change the files' timestamps and get Zuckerburg's waist size.
[/quote]

Using Chrome. Right click on a message. Click Inspect Element. It highlights the text store in a <p> ... </p> You then just double click there and change it to whatever you want. Rinse and repeat. Then you just have to invite someone to look at your amazing screen! No it's not permanent but enough to fool most people just looking. That's why when I did it with Chax I made the page refresh to get the actual messages from Facebook while he didn't have a chance to edit anything.

[Jake Liebenow]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1358207638' post='3076430']
Now tell me about how you could totally h4x FB and change the convo with your 1337 skillz and change the files' timestamps and get Zuckerburg's waist size.
[/quote]

One word, Schatt. Photoshop.

Until the time period between when Robster got these screenshots and when he gave them to Goldie is accounted for, I cannot believe these logs and in fact believe the doctoring was doctored. But that's my opinion, and not the opinion of anyone on ~tHe SiDe~.

NPO, thank you, seriously, for making this thread about you. Because goodness knows you needed another outlet for your ego.

While this situation wasn't handled as best as it should've been, IMO, I personally stand with BFF. Personally, and as a representative of Deinos.

[AndrewHG]

Not quite finished yet. But you are right. Not a coup until the leader is disposed in a successful move... could be unsuccessful given the [s]bloody huge[/s], [s]astoundingly enormous[/s], [s]embarrising,[/s] [s]pr nighmare[/s], mess.

Helicopters on standby?

[Geerland]

[quote]These are not IRC logs, they're Facebook instant messages stored by Facebook ad infinitum for data mining pruposes. A remote access client has been used to view the IM on Facebook.

Now tell me about how you could totally h4x FB and change the convo with your 1337 skillz and change the files' timestamps and get Zuckerburg's waist size.[/quote]
Yes. You could add additional conversations into a Facebook chat page. Not on Facebooks side mind you, but it doesn't have to be on their side for a screenshot to be taken.

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='hobbies0310' timestamp='1358207836' post='3076432']
I want to know who this Robster guy is and how he got the logs lol
[/quote]

That is indeed a very good question.

[berbers]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1358208188' post='3076439']
That is indeed a very good question.
[/quote]

Roll UPN for accepting stolen screenshots?

Sounds familiar...

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='salsabeast1' timestamp='1358200042' post='3076342']
BFF are cowards, what a real shocker these logs are.
[/quote]
How the hell did you reach that moronic conclusion, based on the OP?

It's like me saying something like:

"TTK are complete idiots, what a real shocker of a post."

Does that help you understand why what you wrote is stupid?