Pingu Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 Chax is innocent until proven guilty. Not shown so far. Anyone leaping to judgment either doesn't know him or has an agenda. BFF are in no way cowards until shown to be. Not shown so far. Anyone throwing around those kinds of accusation either doesn't know BFF or has an agenda. Robster is unusually exercised and involved for no apparent reason. Amply demonstrated. Reasonable conclusion: foul play possible, even likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 [quote name='Pingu' timestamp='1358216148' post='3076512'] Chax is innocent until proven guilty. Not shown so far. Anyone leaping to judgment either doesn't know him or has an agenda. [/quote] Or has access to more information. Regardless, BFF is abiding by their charter and handling it internally and as stated from the beginning BFF's allies are there for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggah Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 In the future, should you attempt to condemn a man in public, expect the public to demand evidence. As has been stated before, there was no reason to take this public pre-trial. That was a poor decision on many levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bit Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 I have 3 questions?? 1) the log I saw were Facebook messages from the picture on the side, are these easy to change, It would seem that using remote desktop and looking at FB conversations, one would need to hack the FB server??? yes anything can be hacked, but this is not simple cut paste modify etc. 2) did Shangra La notify all their treaty partners that they were aid bombing NSO, and possibly incuring the wrath of Kaskus! and possibly opening a can of whoop a$$. BOO I just saw some flowered shirted Shangra la soliders jump!! 3) Kaskus are barbarians that are undiplomatic, I am trying to learn, is the a model of modern CN civilized diplomacy? that we should imulate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingu Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 So when Robster is shown to have faked all this we all get to roll UPN? I can think of more exciting outcomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garion Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 This is getting better and better. Best of luck to BFF, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster83 Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 [quote name='Pingu' timestamp='1358216482' post='3076517'] So when Robster is shown to have faked all this we all get to roll UPN? I can think of more exciting outcomes. [/quote] ...I would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for you meddling kids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 [quote name='Lord Bit' timestamp='1358216431' post='3076516'] 2) did Shangra La notify all their treaty partners that they were aid bombing NSO, and possibly incuring the wrath of Kaskus! and possibly opening a can of whoop a$$. BOO [/quote] Not as threatening as you think this is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 [quote name='Tiggah' timestamp='1358216419' post='3076515'] In the future, should you attempt to condemn a man in public, expect the public to demand evidence. As has been stated before, there was no reason to take this public pre-trial. That was a poor decision on many levels. [/quote] Government changes, even temporary ones, are typically always announced. Especially when said alliance/leader was on the brink of war just last week. As has been stated before (12 pages worth), many parties were already starting to talk about this in public venues. BFF government then decided, with all the information it had available and after evaluating it, that it merited an announcement to let the OWF know what information was out there, what it believed to be the case, and that per its charter even a further review would be held. If the OWF isn't pleased with the evidence, I'm fairly certain BFF won't lose any sleep over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Commander shepard' timestamp='1358200234' post='3076347'] Didn't you abandon NEW, sorta ironic if you ask. [/quote] Chax did not abandon NEW, BFF did. Else you'd have seen withdrawal of cancellation or something along those lines. No, all of Chax's actions regarding this episode are very much in place. Edited January 15, 2013 by shahenshah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 [quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1358192130' post='3076231'] This is certainly interesting. Not to mention highly disappointing. Nonetheless, not that anyone waits with bated breath to see how Prototype moves, BFF has our continued support in these difficult times. If the speed with which this world turns bores you you're free at any point to take action yourself. edit: If I read too much into your questions then my apologies. [/quote] You know I don't even roll of bed for anything less than 1 mill NS engaged or the occasional rogue... Nah, I was genuinely interested in the end game to all this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 [quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1358217308' post='3076524'] Chax did not abandon NEW, BFF did. Else you'd have seen withdrawal of cancellation or something along those lines. No, all of Chax's actions regarding this episode are very much in place. [/quote] Chax and BFF both agreed in how to deal with NEW (regardless of this current episode, NEW has done more than enough to warrant a cancellation including plotting to rogue VE). I have no idea what you're trying to claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) [quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1358217664' post='3076528'] Chax and BFF both agreed in how to deal with NEW (regardless of this current episode, NEW has done more than enough to warrant a cancellation including plotting to rogue VE). I have no idea what you're trying to claim. [/quote] The person I quoted was implying Chax abandoned NEW. My point, as is your point to that said person was that responsibility lies not with Chax, but BFF. It was highly stupid of BFF to not cancel after NEW-VE episode. But the fact is they canceled on NEW episode, not VE incident, that honestly makes BFF look even more incompetent then they already are. Edited January 15, 2013 by shahenshah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggah Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 [quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1358217102' post='3076522'] Government changes, even temporary ones, are typically always announced. Especially when said alliance/leader was on the brink of war just last week. As has been stated before (12 pages worth), many parties were already starting to talk about this in public venues. BFF government then decided, with all the information it had available and after evaluating it, that it merited an announcement to let the OWF know what information was out there, what it believed to be the case, and that per its charter even a further review would be held. If the OWF isn't pleased with the evidence, I'm fairly certain BFF won't lose any sleep over it. [/quote] This was well beyond an announcement of a change in government. The op flat out states, "But he betrayed that trust". That's not laying out facts or anything of the sort. It's an assertion of guilt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge X Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 [quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1358211585' post='3076472'] And after making 25 posts, would you mind telling us what you would have done differently and what BFF's mistake was here, if one was made at all? Bear in mind that this information was moments away from being posted by a third party. How would an esteemed thinker such as your self have handled it, all while making it so no one thinks they were intentionally deceived? [/quote] I would have kept this crap quiet, held the trial, and if in the process got hit by somebody, I would have burned for someone like Chax that has devoted huge quantities of time into his alliance and was in the wrong, then post war after we got stomped I'd kick him out and post it on the OWF making no apologies at all for what happened as it would have been an internal issue and no ones goddam business! But then I guess that's what loyal alliance mates do. Wonder why you asked that question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) [size=4][quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1358218154' post='3076531'] The person I quoted was implying Chax abandoned NEW. My point, as is your point to that said person was that responsibility lies not with Chax, but BFF. [/quote][/size] [size=4]Sorry, long week [/size] [size=4][quote name='Tiggah' timestamp='1358218310' post='3076533'] This was well beyond an announcement of a change in government. The op flat out states, "But he betrayed that trust". That's not laying out facts or anything of the sort. It's an assertion of guilt. [/quote][/size] [size=4]I feel like you glossed over the lines below that completely:[/size] [size=4][quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]BFF government then decided, with all the information it had available and after evaluating it, that it merited an announcement to let the OWF know what information was out there, what it believed to be the case, and that per its charter even a further review would be held. [/quote][/font][/color][/size] [size=4][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Let me break it down for you:[/font][/color][/size] [size=4][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]1. BFF acknowledged and shared some of the information that was being leaked around[/font][/color][/size] [size=4][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]2. BFF government stated what it believes to be the outcome after evaluating all the information (both released and not, which includes their belief that Chax is guilty)[/font][/color][/size] [size=4][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]3. Per their charter they will continue with a mandatory trial that in the meantime keeps Chax with limited power.[/font][/color][/size] Edited January 15, 2013 by WarriorConcept Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenoCore Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 [quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1358200495' post='3076351'] Okay so I have read the thread. There is some good talk her about BFF supporting/wanting or some such nature an attack on the NPO. I have not seen this please point this out. Furthermore you say this is 1/50th of the log and we shouldn't make assumptions on it.... so show us the whole thing so proper decisions and review can be had. I have to agree with GATO on this one, what I am seeing is not changing much in what I understood happened. Is this because I am only seeing 1/50th of the log... sure I can accept that. But you cant put that up, then make leaps (Chax wanted NEW to hit NPO) and then say trust us. Nothing in this situation gives any form or base on the grounds of trust. US - sorry there is seriously nothing coming out of your mouth at this point anyone can trust. You have played this little game well so frankly I would rather just see the sources than get your commentary. [/quote] i have to agree about this changing anything nothing here changes the minds of whats been done and decided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ilyani Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 Chax is a good guy and someone who I consider a friend, and as someone who was wrongly implicated in a similar affair, I can't help but feel for him. Guilty or not, this OWF thread is sad, not because of what SniperJoe said or has done, but because it is essentially allowing the typical OWF idiots to character assassinate probably one of the last people to deserve such a fate. It's also worth noting that screenshots like those (especially those on facebook) are notoriously unreliable, and are very, very easy to edit. Hell, I'm computer illiterate and I could figure out a way to pull something like that off. It isn't hard. That, combined with the fact that Robster is a completely unreliable source of information (for gods sake, he has a blood grudge against Chax. Look at his posting), leads me to be very skeptical of this entire affair. Obviously I may be missing something behind the lines that is important, but if I'm not, then I'm hoping for a positive trial outcome for my favorite Owl, and a return to normalcy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingervites Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) [img]http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/39/2010/08/340x_zrzmhu_4m-g.jpg[/img] When doing your trial, make sure to spend a lot of time figuring out if Chax weighs more than a duck. Edited January 15, 2013 by Gingervites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvon Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 [quote name='Gingervites' timestamp='1358222892' post='3076546'] [img]http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/39/2010/08/340x_zrzmhu_4m-g.jpg[/img] I eagerly await the outcome of this fair trial [/quote] That's twice now DR has been implicated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggah Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 [quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1358218757' post='3076537'] [size=4][/size] [size=4]Sorry, long week [/size] [size=4][/size] [size=4]I feel like you glossed over the lines below that completely:[/size] [size=4][/font][/color][/size] [size=4][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Let me break it down for you:[/font][/color][/size] [size=4][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]1. BFF acknowledged and shared some of the information that was being leaked around[/font][/color][/size] [size=4][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]2. BFF government stated what it believes to be the outcome after evaluating all the information (both released and not, which includes their belief that Chax is guilty)[/font][/color][/size] [size=4][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]3. Per their charter they will continue with a mandatory trial that in the meantime keeps Chax with limited power.[/font][/color][/size] [/quote] Our understanding of the sequence of events is pretty similar. I just don't see the events as being justified while you do. It's a judgement call, and I see no reason to continue arguing over it. I'll also state that, to me, this situation looks more like a poor decision made under stress than an active attempt by Sniper to screw someone over. I'll wish Chax good luck with his trial and state my continued support for BFF as an ally of ODN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYIyTh Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 Having also been the victim of purposely misrepresented events, I am also naturally skeptical. Given the publicity of late and spotlight I'm sure we'll actually get some answers in this case, so better now for Chax & BFF than another time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 No way I'm going to read all of this, but if anyone would like to scrutinize the screenshot Chax sent me they are more than welcome to have the original, provided Chax is fine with who I give it to (it has names in it and that's not how I roll). I don't know if someone can replicate a Facebook message going out of alignment and back into perfect alignment, and then from having perfect spacing to crazy spacing, all in a simple screenshot that was never edited, but skepticism is the key to proper analysis, and people have a right to take their shot at the same kind of process I went through with the screenshot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helbrecht Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 The text indent and alignment might change based on clients or messy coding. What about the actual text? The content in the two sets of logs itself is different, and facebook lameness cant be blamed for that. So either one of the people who participated in the conversation edited their conversation. Going by the content of the logs (those made available to us, here) there is not much difference. Except, that one line where the NEW person is shown to be activating a treaty as compared to the other version where it seems more like a light-hearted banter. The rationale behind such an edit escapes me. More so, when you take into account that NEW was already in breach of their treaty obligations to BFF (if I have understood the timeline properly). All you could possibly have against this Chax person is "conduct unbecoming" seeing as no damage was done. Of course, as we have been told that there are 50 times as many logs as those shared here, maybe the real damaging content was in that unshared log pile. What did you do Chax? Plot to overthrow admin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicknight Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 [quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1358223045' post='3076547'] That's twice now DR has been implicated [/quote] Wait for it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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