Another Statement from BFF

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Ovidsidios' timestamp='1358192063' post='3076229']
We all feel the same. [b]I'm hoping we will be able to rectify the situation[/b], not only with those members of the OWF who stood on the forefront of that heated debate, bit [b]most importantly with NEW.[/b]

But this is politics. I'm just glad we were able to discover this before things got too out of hand. A lesson learned, now onward into the future.
[/quote]

That will be an interesting conversation.

They would be mugs to even converse with your government.

[Robster83]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358191860' post='3076226']
To what end though? If NEW said they didn't want help...why the spectacle? Wouldn't it have been simpler to have NEW say they didn't want allies involved? It's been done numerous times and BFF would've taken less flak than the cancellation brought.....maybe Chax is a huge moron.
[/quote]

How do you expect me to know what Chax was thinking? I fully agree with you. The point of this thread just serves the purpose to prove that Chax lied to the OWF, his allies and even his own alliance about what had happened. At no point did NEW demand that BFF backed them in this situation, and Chax himself almost actively encouraged NEW at times to attack NPO in the full logs.

I think that is the point of the thread though, to highlight that BFF shouldn't be defined by Chax's moronic actions.

[magicninja]

[quote name='USMC123' timestamp='1358191891' post='3076228']


Looks like it to me.
[/quote]

I saw him say he'd talk to BFF while prepping just in case...

I still don't get it though. Why say they wanted to activate if they didn't? It doesn't negate the fact that NEW aided without consulting anyone...both sets say it was to cause war. Those were the reasons for the cancellation if I recall....so while he may have lied about the wants of NEW in the situation....why would he? What was to gain? If the goal was to avoid war...he had that without having to cancel..apparently. So, that can't be it.....

What was the point?

[Goldie]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358191466' post='3076219']
Maybe I'm not catching context....but what is really the difference between the sets?
[/quote]

True logs:

[b]Chax: [/b] Hello there, you have a minute
[b]Vibi: [/b]yes
[b]Chax: [/b]NSO and Non Grata found out about NEW's aid drop to Kaskus. They're probably going to declare war on NEW.
[b]Vibi: [/b]great than
[b]Chax: [/b]Are you guys going in alone on this? BFF's not thrilled about the situation, but we've got your backs if needed.
[b]Vibi: [/b]i decided aided kaskus cos NSO got bombed aid from shangrila((break))and also i read your pm about your situation
[b]Chax: [/b]haha that's over with now, but thanks
[b]Vibi: [/b]any possible war, i will going it((break))just create war
[b]Chax: [/b]Thanks man. So will NEW be wanting BFF's help in this war if NSO/NG hit you?
[b]Vibi: [/b]this is my reason aided kaskus((break))lol
[b]Chax: [/b]lol I figured
[b]Vibi: [/b]up to you.. if you dont mind((break))
[b]Chax: [/b]Right on, I'll talk to BFF about it. Let's just prepare for the hit.
[b]Vibi: [/b]sure((break))thanks for this information((break))i will let my member get prepare((break))
[b]Chax: [/b]No problem. Good luck, and good hunting.

With Chax' modifications:

[b]Chax: [/b]Hello there, you have a minute?
[b]Vibi: [/b]yes
[b]Chax: [/b]NSO and Non Grata found out about NEW's aid drop to Kaskus. They're probably going to declare war on NEW.
[b]Vibi: [/b]great than
[b]Chax: [/b][s]Are you guys going in alone on this? BFF's not thrilled about the situation, but we've got your backs if needed.[/s] [color=green]So what's your plan with this?[/color]
[b]Vibi: [/b]i decided aided kaskus cos NSO got bombed aid from shangrila((break))and also i read your pm about your situation
[b]Chax: [/b][s]haha that's over with now, but thanks[/s] [color=green]That situation blew over, haha[/color]
[b]Vibi: [/b]any possible war, i will going it((break))just create war[color=green]((break))this is my reason aided kaskus((break))lol[/color]
[s][b]Chax: [/b]Thanks man. So will NEW be wanting BFF's help in this war if NSO/NG hit you?[/s] [color=red]**this line was removed**[/color]
[b]Vibi: [/b]this is my reason aided kaskus((break))lol [color=red]**this line was connected to Vibi's last line, which is where the discrepancy shows in spacing and alignment**[/color]
[b]Chax: [/b][s]lol I figured [/s] [color=green]I figured. What's the position on NEW regarding BFF?[/color]
[b]Vibi: [/b][s]up to you.. if you dont mind((break)) [/s] [color=green]We could use help if you dont mind((break))we activating treaty [/color]
[b]Chax: [/b][s]Right on, I'll talk to BFF about it. Let's just prepare for the hit.[/s] [color=green]Alllright, I'll chat with BFF about it, but we're bound into this.[/color]
[b]Vibi: [/b]sure((break))thanks for this information((break))i will let my member get prepare((break))
[b]Chax: [/b]No problem. Good luck, and good hunting.

Edited January 14, 2013 by goldielax25

[Ovidsidios]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1358192248' post='3076234']
That will be an interesting conversation.

They would be mugs to even converse with your government.
[/quote]

Not necessarily, from what I understand the strength of this evidence comes from the cooperative work of BFF and NEW's members. I do not wish to imply we'll buddy buddy up as we were before, but there are many good people in NEW and many good people in BFF, and to let the actions of one man ruin the friendships of many is silly. We do not have to be allies, this is understandable, but I hope we do not become enemies.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Ovidsidios

[Robster83]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358192550' post='3076237']
I saw him say he'd talk to BFF while prepping just in case...

I still don't get it though. Why say they wanted to activate if they didn't? It doesn't negate the fact that NEW aided without consulting anyone...both sets say it was to cause war. Those were the reasons for the cancellation if I recall....so while he may have lied about the wants of NEW in the situation....why would he? What was to gain? If the goal was to avoid war...he had that without having to cancel..apparently. So, that can't be it.....

What was the point?
[/quote]

I agree with you. In the entirety of the logs it seems that Chax is not only supporting NEW, but actively encouraging them to attack NPO. I assume he had some sort of motive, and wanted to get back at NEW for what he saw as !@#$@#$ them over.

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Ovidsidios' timestamp='1358192657' post='3076240']
Not necessarily, from what I understand the strength of this evidence comes from the cooperative work of BFF and NEW's members. I do not wish to imply we'll buddy buddy up as we were before, but there are many good people in NEW and many good people in BFF, and to let the actions of one man ruin the friendships of many is silly. We do not have to be allies, this is understandable, but I hope we do not become enemies.
[/quote]

I'd be surprised if they even entertained you. Your government acted rashly and dropped them like a hot brick, fair weather friends almost. Considering the length of your so called friendship, is quite shocking. Instead you acted upon 1 mans words and followed it blindly and discarded them like trash. This has now caused a knock on affect and INT (which we already know are fair weather friends) dropped them as well, (no surprise there).

As i said before, I'd be surprised if they even bothered with striking up friendship, when clearly it was one sided to begin with.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Hiro Nakara

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358191860' post='3076226']
To what end though?
[/quote]

This would be the only relevant outstanding question.

[USMC123]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358192550' post='3076237']


I saw him say he'd talk to BFF while prepping just in case...

I still don't get it though. Why say they wanted to activate if they didn't? It doesn't negate the fact that NEW aided without consulting anyone...both sets say it was to cause war. Those were the reasons for the cancellation if I recall....so while he may have lied about the wants of NEW in the situation....why would he? What was to gain? If the goal was to avoid war...he had that without having to cancel..apparently. So, that can't be it.....

What was the point?
[/quote]

Perhaps the support was implicit, but to me its more that NEW didn't keep BFF (namely Chax) In the dark as much as they made it sound.

E: but based on the difference in logs, I think the log edits makes NEW look like they are using BFF versus chax implying they'll help NEW if asked.

Edited January 14, 2013 by USMC123

[magicninja]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1358192558' post='3076238']


True logs:

[b]Chax: [/b] Hello there, you have a minute
[b]Vibi: [/b]yes
[b]Chax: [/b]NSO and Non Grata found out about NEW's aid drop to Kaskus. They're probably going to declare war on NEW.
[b]Vibi: [/b]great than
[b]Chax: [/b]Are you guys going in alone on this? BFF's not thrilled about the situation, but we've got your backs if needed.
[b]Vibi: [/b]i decided aided kaskus cos NSO got bombed aid from shangrila((break))and also i read your pm about your situation
[b]Chax: [/b]haha that's over with now, but thanks
[b]Vibi: [/b]any possible war, i will going it((break))just create war
[b]Chax: [/b]Thanks man. So will NEW be wanting BFF's help in this war if NSO/NG hit you?
[b]Vibi: [/b]this is my reason aided kaskus((break))lol
[b]Chax: [/b]lol I figured
[b]Vibi: [/b]up to you.. if you dont mind((break))
[b]Chax: [/b]Right on, I'll talk to BFF about it. Let's just prepare for the hit.
[b]Vibi: [/b]sure((break))thanks for this information((break))i will let my member get prepare((break))
[b]Chax: [/b]No problem. Good luck, and good hunting.

With Chax' modifications:

[b]Chax: [/b]Hello there, you have a minute?
[b]Vibi: [/b]yes
[b]Chax: [/b]NSO and Non Grata found out about NEW's aid drop to Kaskus. They're probably going to declare war on NEW.
[b]Vibi: [/b]great than
[b]Chax: [/b][s]Are you guys going in alone on this? BFF's not thrilled about the situation, but we've got your backs if needed.[/s] [color=green]So what's your plan with this?[/color]
[b]Vibi: [/b]i decided aided kaskus cos NSO got bombed aid from shangrila((break))and also i read your pm about your situation
[b]Chax: [/b][s]haha that's over with now, but thanks[/s] That situation blew over, haha
[b]Vibi: [/b]any possible war, i will going it((break))just create war[color=green]((break))this is my reason aided kaskus((break))lol[/color]
[s][b]Chax: [/b]Thanks man. So will NEW be wanting BFF's help in this war if NSO/NG hit you?[/s] [color=red]**this line was removed**[/color]
[b]Vibi: [/b]this is my reason aided kaskus((break))lol [color=red]**this line was connected to Vibi's last line, which is where the discrepancy shows in spacing and alignment**[/color]
[b]Chax: [/b][s]lol I figured [/s] [color=green]I figured. What's the position on NEW regarding BFF?[/color]
[b]Vibi: [/b][s]up to you.. if you dont mind((break)) [/s] [color=green]We could use help if you dont mind((break))we activating treaty [/color]
[b]Chax: [/b][s]Right on, I'll talk to BFF about it. Let's just prepare for the hit.[/s] [color=green]Alllright, I'll chat with BFF about it, but we're bound into this.[/color]
[b]Vibi: [/b]sure((break))thanks for this information((break))i will let my member get prepare((break))
[b]Chax: [/b]No problem. Good luck, and good hunting.
[/quote]

I'm not advocating for Chax here. TBH, I don't know him all that well. Doctoring logs is certainly not something I look on favorably. That said....I still fail to see a major difference except that NEW didn't explicitly ask for help...but implied it with "if you don't mind)". Now perhaps what Chax did was try to clear up the logs by adding in his interpretation... I don't see a huge difference between them. Still shows NEW did it to cause war....still shows NEW not denying help...still shows Chax saying he'd talk to BFF. I still don't see a major change that really makes a huge difference in the context of the convo.....

I still have no idea why Chax would believe it to help any cause...what cause anyway? No one has said what his motivation was. That could help.

[magicninja]

[quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1358193015' post='3076242']


I agree with you. In the entirety of the logs it seems that Chax is not only supporting NEW, but actively encouraging them to attack NPO. I assume he had some sort of motive, and wanted to get back at NEW for what he saw as !@#$@#$ them over.
[/quote]

That's highly speculative and I foubt NEW needed any encouragement to begin with...they sent the aid with no promise of help...to cause war as is said in the logs. Makes me believe they were planning on going to war regardless.

No I don't think you are on point in tjis line of thought. I'm interested in the truth myself. I'd rather ask questions than make statements. I guess I'll have to wait for Chax since no one else can seem to figure it out either.

[Thrash]

Chax

[Robster83]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358193554' post='3076249']
That's highly speculative and I foubt NEW needed any encouragement to begin with...they sent the aid with no promise of help...to cause war as is said in the logs. Makes me believe they were planning on going to war regardless.

No I don't think you are on point in tjis line of thought. I'm interested in the truth myself. I'd rather ask questions than make statements. I guess I'll have to wait for Chax since no one else can seem to figure it out either.
[/quote]

Highly speculative? Its fact.

[Sniper Joe]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358191860' post='3076226']
To what end though? If NEW said they didn't want help...why the spectacle? Wouldn't it have been simpler to have NEW say they didn't want allies involved? It's been done numerous times and BFF would've taken less flak than the cancellation brought.....maybe Chax is a huge moron.
[/quote]

Nobody knows. We haven't been able to get in touch with him yet.

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1358193156' post='3076244']
I'd be surprised if they even entertained you. Your government acted rashly and dropped them like a hot brick, fair weather friends almost. Considering the length of your so called friendship, is quite shocking. Instead you acted upon 1 mans words and followed it blindly and discarded them like trash. This has now caused a knock on affect and INT (which we already know are fair weather friends) dropped them as well, (no surprise there).

As i said before, I'd be surprised if they even bothered with striking up friendship, when clearly it was one sided to begin with.
[/quote]

Excuse us for trusting a long time friend and government member. I'll be sure to let everyone know that they shouldn't assume honesty when their government speaks. I confronted him about these rumors. I asked him to tell me straight out if he lied to me. And he played me too.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Sniper Joe

[Ovidsidios]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1358193156' post='3076244']
I'd be surprised if they even entertained you. Your government acted rashly and dropped them like a hot brick, fair weather friends almost. Considering the length of your so called friendship, is quite shocking. Instead you acted upon 1 mans words and followed it blindly and discarded them like trash. This has now caused a knock on affect and INT (which we already know are fair weather friends) dropped them as well, (no surprise there).

As i said before, I'd be surprised if they even bothered with striking up friendship, when clearly it was one sided to begin with.
[/quote]

From what I understand, the act of aiding Kaskus without the proper notification would still be a violation of our article 2, and as such a nullifying of our treaty. The continuation of the cancellation would have nothing to do with the fabrication of the logs.

What is at fault here is the general tone many members took that was directly attributed to those fake logs, namely that NEW had no consideration for us and was going to drag us into a war. For that, the act of one man (and not just any man but a high ranking government official) with the proof he provided was enough to spur such a tone.

[shirunei]

Eh
Good Luck Chax
This might be appropriate http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xPDwQwM1cLU#t=15s

[magicninja]

[quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1358193681' post='3076251']


Highly speculative? Its fact.
[/quote]

Except in the "correct" logs Chax says he isn't happy with the situation...I don't see that as actively trying to get NEW to do anything. You are taking wild leaps in your assumption here. Please don't try to twist that assumption in to fact.

[Robster83]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358193954' post='3076256']
Except in the "correct" logs Chax says he isn't happy with the situation...I don't see that as actively trying to get NEW to do anything. You are taking wild leaps in your assumption here. Please don't try to twist that assumption in to fact.
[/quote]

... I have the logs in their entirety, you have a 1/50th ( if that ) of them. Yet I am the one taking wild leaps? Yeah...

To make it clearer. NEW clearly committed an act of war by sending the aid, however they had no intention to attack NPO, that was something Chax brought up and encouraged. For example, Chax "I know. They're too chicken. Somebody's gotta be the man in this house, eh? Either way, BFF is ready to go in with you at update."

Edited January 14, 2013 by Robster83

[Groucho Marx]

This is extremely disappointing and downright disgusting. I'll be waiting for the full story.

[magicninja]

[quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1358194019' post='3076257']


... I have the logs in their entirety, you have a 1/50th ( if that ) of them. Yet I am the one taking wild leaps? Yeah...

To make it clearer. NEW clearly committed an act of war by sending the aid, however they had no intention to attack NPO, that was something Chax brought up and encouraged. For example, Chax "I know. They're too chicken. Somebody's gotta be the man in this house, eh? Either way, BFF is ready to go in with you at update."
[/quote]

I was taking no leap. Just asking questions and basing my opinion off of what you had given up. You want people to listen provide more than you are. Easy solution.

[The Pansy]

[quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1358194019' post='3076257']
For example, Chax "I know. They're too chicken. Somebody's gotta be the man in this house, eh? Either way, BFF is ready to go in with you at update."
[/quote]
You should couple them with the logs of him talking to Brehon, there will be some fun stuff between those two.

[Irish Republic]

Edited January 18, 2013 by Irish Republic

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Sniper Joe' timestamp='1358193765' post='3076253']
Nobody knows. We haven't been able to get in touch with him yet.



Excuse us for trusting a long time friend and government member. I'll be sure to let everyone know that they shouldn't assume honesty when their government speaks. I confronted him about these rumors. I asked him to tell me straight out if he lied to me. And he played me too.
[/quote]


Are you lot sheeple that hang off the word of 1 man? Being played or not, you should have looked into it further.

[quote name='Ovidsidios' timestamp='1358193815' post='3076254']
From what I understand, the act of aiding Kaskus without the proper notification would still be a violation of our article 2, and as such a nullifying of our treaty. The continuation of the cancellation would have nothing to do with the fabrication of the logs.

What is at fault here is the general tone many members took that was directly attributed to those fake logs, namely that NEW had no consideration for us and was going to drag us into a war. For that, the act of one man (and not just any man but a high ranking government official) with the proof he provided was enough to spur such a tone.
[/quote]

Nobodies denying that they should have contacted you. But you chose the most extreme option, rather than working with them to resolve it while maintaining a friendship (one sided it appears), NEW would Burn down to the ground for you, they obviously wouldn't have that kind of friendship returned. You acted rashly, you should have found an alternative option than outright cancelling on them. What's happened here is a friendship is ruined, because you chose to drop them instead of working with them to keep a friendship alive, not only that, the manner in which they were treated with the backroom chats with the people that were going to roll them was despicable and !@#$%*. If they ever deal with you again and strike up a friendship, it will only show their quality they have as human beings.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Hiro Nakara

[Robster83]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358194353' post='3076260']
I was taking no leap. Just asking questions and basing my opinion off of what you had given up. You want people to listen provide more than you are. Easy solution.
[/quote]

I have nothing more to prove. My sole agenda was to prove to BFF, and their allies that Chax was lying and misled them.

I know for a fact that BFF and ther allies are better off now.

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358193281' post='3076247']
I'm not advocating for Chax here. TBH, I don't know him all that well. Doctoring logs is certainly not something I look on favorably. That said....I still fail to see a major difference except that NEW didn't explicitly ask for help...but implied it with "if you don't mind)". Now perhaps what Chax did was try to clear up the logs by adding in his interpretation... I don't see a huge difference between them. Still shows NEW did it to cause war....still shows NEW not denying help...still shows Chax saying he'd talk to BFF. I still don't see a major change that really makes a huge difference in the context of the convo.....

I still have no idea why Chax would believe it to help any cause...what cause anyway? No one has said what his motivation was. That could help.
[/quote]

Based on the OP there are more logs but for opsec reasons they can't be released. So I imagine Chax's betrayal goes a little bit further.