Another Statement from BFF

[D34th]

[quote name='Sniper Joe' timestamp='1358196356' post='3076294']
This is not a game changer. NEW endangered us without talking to us. The cancellation remains in place.
[/quote]

There never was much hope. Just a fool's hope...

[Ovidsidios]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1358196130' post='3076290']
Now, with everything clarified is BFF and INT resigning the treaties they canceled because Chax manipulated the information? I (can only) hope so.
[/quote]

As of now no verifiable decision can be provided on the subject.

However, it may be in the best interest of the parties involved to abstain from treaty talks, and continue things as were their intentions (treaties remain cancelled). What the future holds for anyone, no one can say. But at my table, NEW is always welcome. A sincere, and most heartfelt apology. I understand that is hard to read behind a screen of text, and in the end only my actions will be able to prove those words. I hope if ever that day comes, I will not forget what I have spoken, as we often forget ourselves.

[i]EDIT: [/i][quote name='D34th' timestamp='1358196777' post='3076299']
There never was much hope. Just a fool's hope...
[/quote]

I stand corrected

Edited January 14, 2013 by Ovidsidios

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358196160' post='3076291']


I haven'trusted VE in years. SniperJoe could be making a power play. Who the hell is Robster anyway?
[/quote]

You seem pretty concerned. Do you know something you would like to share?

You were correct in your earlier comment that the 'why' in this situation is ambiguous at the moment, and that's unusual. However, I can confirm that there is a definitive indication that Chax made a material misrepresentation to his alliance and allies regarding this situation, and in turn his alliance and allies acted with reliance upon those misrepresentations. In short, it appears he committed a fraud against his family and friends.

I don't like it, and I don't like the fact that there is no readily ascertainable motive behind his actions, but the lack of apparent reason has no bearing on this announcement, which was made simply to do the right thing and inform the public that they had been mislead by one of their own.

[Judge X]

[quote name='Daimos' timestamp='1358196002' post='3076287']
Why would Chax post fabricated logs in public intentionally? Does the leader of NEW do not read the OWF? If so, maybe he should start. Specially when it involves his alliance on the brink of war.
[/quote]
Vibi speaks English as a second language as does all of NEW. The nuances of english are oft lost on them as well as most western politics.

[magicninja]

Just saying there's reasonable doubt SniperJoe. I'm inclined to believe Chax was up to some shenanigans. I'm just saying you guys are doing a pisspoor job of convincing anyone that likes to use their brain with what you have given. You seem to believe that since you gave us a tiny snippet of Chax changing a few words but hardly the meaning of some logs that we should believe everything you say about the guy....it may work on some mopes but you'll have to do better for most others.

[Irish Republic]

Edited January 18, 2013 by Irish Republic

[Lurunin]

Well now. This reminds me that I have something that needs cleared up by BFF gov. Something partially related

Sniper if you happen to me on IRC when I am itd be nice to sort it out. Maybe tonight round update when I'll be off work.

[darkfox]

Internal matter posted in the public before even talking to the rest of the government. Brilliant.

[magicninja]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1358196943' post='3076301']


You seem pretty concerned. Do you know something you would like to share?

You were correct in your earlier comment that the 'why' in this situation is ambiguous at the moment, and that's unusual. However, I can confirm that there is a definitive indication that Chax made a material misrepresentation to his alliance and allies regarding this situation, and in turn his alliance and allies acted with reliance upon those misrepresentations. In short, it appears he committed a fraud against his family and friends.

I don't like it, and I don't like the fact that there is no readily ascertainable motive behind his actions, but the lack of apparent reason has no bearing on this announcement, which was made simply to do the right thing and inform the public that they had been mislead by one of their own.
[/quote]

I was making a point about why I wouldn't just take someone's word for it. It is true I haven't trusted VE in a long time and I don't know who Robsyer is or why he cares so much...as for SniperJoe...who knows right?

I have no real details and after a few pages I still don't. No one has yet to answer my question. What really changed in the logs you guys are giving? What misrepresentation was made? I got pretty much the same story from both sets. I got the doctored set when this broke off but my opinion would not have changed if I had the originals.....so what was the big slight of hand you guys are saying happened here?

[longnameislonger]

[quote name='darkfox' timestamp='1358197270' post='3076306']
Internal matter posted in the public before even talking to the rest of the government. Brilliant.
[/quote]

BFF is becoming increasingly unstable.

[Ovidsidios]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358196991' post='3076303']
Just saying there's reasonable doubt SniperJoe. I'm inclined to believe Chax was up to some shenanigans. I'm just saying you guys are doing a pisspoor job of convincing anyone that likes to use their brain with what you have given. You seem to believe that since you gave us a tiny snippet of Chax changing a few words but hardly the meaning of some logs that we should believe everything you say about the guy....it may work on some mopes but you'll have to do better for most others.
[/quote]

Changing a few words is pretty drastic itself. Then those very few words that he changed, he later used to fuel his own personal agenda. What is being provided here directly refutes what Chax provided early, hence why what it is only a "tiny snippet". Had Chax given more, then more would have been shown to disprove it. No point in showing 2+hours worth of dialogue if the kernel of the issue is 10 minutes worth of exchange.

[Sniper Joe]

[quote name='darkfox' timestamp='1358197270' post='3076306']
Internal matter posted in the public before even talking to the rest of the government. Brilliant.
[/quote]

As I told you on IRC, this was about to leak and it's better for us to reveal it then allow for spin.

[magicninja]

[quote name='Ovidsidios' timestamp='1358197504' post='3076310']


Changing a few words is pretty drastic itself. Then those very few words that he changed, he later used to fuel his own personal agenda. What is being provided here directly refutes what Chax provided early, hence why what it is only a "tiny snippet". Had Chax given more, then more would have been shown to disprove it. No point in showing 2+hours worth of dialogue if the kernel of the issue is 10 minutes worth of exchange.
[/quote]

Like I said earlier I don't see why he changed anything when they both still tell the same story. What agenda? That hasn't been mentioned. I still don't see what big deception was created.

[Sniper Joe]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358197805' post='3076313']
Like I said earlier I don't see why he changed anything when they both still tell the same story. What agenda? That hasn't been mentioned. I still don't see what big deception was created.
[/quote]

Nobody knows, as has been said. It's kind of irrelevant, the proof is there. As has also been said.

[trimm]

Well color me surprised.

[berbers]

I am speechless

Thank admin something good came from this

[magicninja]

[quote name='Sniper Joe' timestamp='1358197946' post='3076314']


Nobody knows, as has been said. It's kind of irrelevant, the proof is there. As has also been said.
[/quote]

Alright....evidently even you guys have no clue. One says it was to further an agenda...one says who knows what agenda?

I ask what really changed? The answer? Well the proof is there!

What proof? Of what?

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358197358' post='3076308']


I was making a point about why I wouldn't just take someone's word for it. It is true I haven't trusted VE in a long time and I don't know who Robsyer is or why he cares so much...as for SniperJoe...who knows right?

I have no real details and after a few pages I still don't. No one has yet to answer my question. What really changed in the logs you guys are giving? What misrepresentation was made? I got pretty much the same story from both sets. I got the doctored set when this broke off but my opinion would not have changed if I had the originals.....so what was the big slight of hand you guys are saying happened here?
[/quote]

The relevant misrepresentation is, as it seems to me, the apparently fictional phrase 'we activating treaty' which was substituted in for 'up to you'. The fact that an MADP ally was literally activating their treaty after acting in a dangerous and reckless fashion framed BFF's actions and the stance of their allies. In its original wording, the conversation was not definitive and soft. After edits, however, the situation appears to be one of dire importance that requires immediate action, and such action was indeed taken by BFF and a number of other alliances both allied to them and across the aisle of conflict.

I hope this helps clear things up for you.

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

This is great to wake up to.

I have great faith in the legal system of BFF and hope that this will be worked out to the fullest as soon as possible. Granted, I'm not allowed to see my own trial, nor am I being allowed to defend myself in said trial, but I imagine something will come of it.

If anybody else understands Facebook, pixel variation between messages isn't exactly hard evidence. The fact that my friends, comrades and allies would be so quick to abandon me based on...what?...rather sickens me. Further, why the hell I would fake logs to add stress to my own life is beyond me.

[Parandiac]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1358194430' post='3076263']NEW would Burn down to the ground for you, they obviously wouldn't have that kind of friendship returned.
[/quote]
from a lot that i've gotten out of it, NEW was planning on quitting CN over this, hence them not requesting that BFF join in the war, if one came to fruition.

[AndrewHG]

woa slow down. Every time I read a page... two more appear

[Robster83]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1358198441' post='3076319']
This is great to wake up to.

I have great faith in the legal system of BFF and hope that this will be worked out to the fullest as soon as possible. Granted, I'm not allowed to see my own trial, nor am I being allowed to defend myself in said trial, but I imagine something will come of it.

If anybody else understands Facebook, pixel variation between messages isn't exactly hard evidence. The fact that my friends, comrades and allies would be so quick to abandon me based on...what?...rather sickens me. Further, why the hell I would fake logs to add stress to my own life is beyond me.
[/quote]

A screen share was carried out via a remote control/desktop sharing program to verify Vibi's logs. It's irrefutable.

... and your only screenshot has several inconsistincies.

* You were kicked from #bff by Chax[BFF] (!@#$%^)

Someone is mad.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Robster83

[Robster83]

oops.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Robster83

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Daimos' timestamp='1358196002' post='3076287']
Why would Chax post fabricated logs in public intentionally? Does the leader of NEW do not read the OWF? If so, maybe he should start. Specially when it involves his alliance on the brink of war.
[/quote]

English is not his first language so the small changes Chax made were probably made in a way that Vibi wouldn't understand the subtle difference/implication of them.

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358197358' post='3076308']
I have no real details and after a few pages I still don't. No one has yet to answer my question. What really changed in the logs you guys are giving?
[/quote]

Addressed [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=114761&st=20#entry3076238"]here[/url].

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358197358' post='3076308'] What misrepresentation was made?[/quote]

Addressed [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=114761&st=60#entry3076301"]here[/url].

Just wait until more logs come your way.

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Ovidsidios' timestamp='1358195640' post='3076283']
You speak in hindsight, and that is disappointing. That you speak so unempathetically is all the more saddening. Their is, was, and has yet to be discovered so much to this situation that you are now blindly assuming the role of vindicator as we did not too long ago. What's more is you are forgetting to understand that it is we who are bringing this to light, we who are working our hardest to get to the bottom of this (not excluding the works of others who are working as equally hard with us). You think that we harbor some malice in our mechanics, and confuse our fervor for truth as zealotry in our wants. Which is far from the case. As to the makings of our responses to each other's call is neither in your power to predict nor to determine.

Seeing your absolute wanton stance on the matter, I don't see speaking to you yielding anything more useful than salt to a wound.




We are following the constructs of our Charter. What war will come we have yet to determine. We must be steadfast in our efforts, but hope is a flickering luxury at the moment.
[/quote]


Harboring malice or not, it does not deflect away from the situation you placed NEW in, you went with knee jerking reaction and dropped them when indeed there was more to the story than 1 mans word on it. I thought your relationship and friendship would mean more than dropping them at the whim of 1 mans words. I'm personally happy you posted this. I'm not slating you for your honesty, I praise you for this action, i just can't praise you for dropping a friend who would burn for you and the backroom !@#$ talking and prepping your government member done with NPO & Co.

If NEW are okay with that then more power to them.