LSF Apology to IRON

[Mogar]

looks like we might see the first 4 front war in our history.
[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1340160416' post='2989598']
Who is this exactly? CnG?

Members of DR have been given two clear CBs on your idiotic friends which would drag you into a conflict but instead of perusing them they've led it slide. Clearly they are looking at going after your bloc.
[/quote]
perhaps CnG is aware DR is currently not in a position to act upon those CBs, the timing of this little party matches up a bit too well.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Mogar

[Rokula]

LSF while I could see one agreeing to paying reps for a minor and playful joke, but to forsake your sovereignty and freedom to be bullied into kicking out a member of your AA?

I am sad that you allowed yourselves to dishonor a brother in arms, and gave in to being bullied by butthurt $%&@tards.

[James IV]

Some people just keep digging.

[Rudolph]

I find this to be amusing since a simple /whois and knowing people's IP (Especially if they're the leader of an alliance) would have shown the truth from the getgo.

[Mephala]

[quote name='Rudolph' timestamp='1340162856' post='2989628']
I find this to be amusing since a simple /whois and knowing people's IP (Especially if they're the leader of an alliance) would have shown the truth from the getgo.
[/quote]
I'm just going to stick my neck out there and say that I don't know the ISPs of the leaders of any alliances, including my own alliance.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Mephala

[Mogar]

[quote name='Rudolph' timestamp='1340162856' post='2989628']
I find this to be amusing since a simple /whois and knowing people's IP (Especially if they're the leader of an alliance) would have shown the truth from the getgo.
[/quote]
if this war has taught us anything, it's that people will go out of their way to not do anything if it means a war they want will occur.

[USMC123]

[quote name='Derwood1' timestamp='1340159120' post='2989573']
Are you purposely being obtuse or were you being sarcastic, if so then carry on.......
[/quote]

So expulsion of a member plus reps is a good set of terms for a joke

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='USMC123' timestamp='1340163380' post='2989632']
So expulsion of a member plus reps is a good set of terms for a joke
[/quote]

No, but infinitely less damaging than a war declaration. The key words being 'class' and 'restraint', not 'lulz'.

[Bob Sanders]

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1340159800' post='2989588']
Clearly they are since one of your members issued a callout to The International if I recall correctly, someone in your alliance wanted a shot at Int, no?
[/quote]

Apparently Hal did...

[Matt Miller]

[quote name='USMC123' timestamp='1340163380' post='2989632']
So expulsion of a member plus reps is a good set of terms for a joke
[/quote]

Several people have tossed around that this was a "joke" or "playful." However, the truth is that he tried to get an ally of ours to declare on NoR. It wasn't a joke, he was not playing around, and just because he says so after being caught in the act does not make it true. We do not take kindly to this sort of thing and rather than just declaring on them, we offered an alternative. Some folks need to put their faux outrage away; he is culpable and deserving of what LSF has agreed to concerning his future.

[USMC123]

[quote name='Matt Miller' timestamp='1340164490' post='2989649']
Several people have tossed around that this was a "joke" or "playful." However, the truth is that he tried to get an ally of ours to declare on NoR. It wasn't a joke, he was not playing around, and just because he says so after being caught in the act does not make it true. We do not take kindly to this sort of thing and rather than just declaring on them, we offered an alternative. Some folks need to put their faux outrage away; he is culpable and deserving of what LSF has agreed to concerning his future.
[/quote]

I promise you beyond a doubt that it was joke. You got the faux outrage part right though.

@Hal, so wouldn't that mean LSF are the classy ones or the ones showing restraint? I mean, they accepted these terms in spite of being a bit unfair not because it would hurt them (they are already at war with NoR, let's be honest, IRON couldn't do much to them if they tried), but because they knew it would put their own allies in a bad spot.

[Feanor Noldorin]

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1340161247' post='2989609']
perhaps CnG is aware DR is currently not in a position to act upon those CBs, the timing of this little party matches up a bit too well.
[/quote]
Well members of CnG are already at war with others so it's a pretty good time if DR wanted to push the issue. Seems like they are being more than fair by not being hyper aggressive. I don't think timing has anything to do with it, rather I think it has to do with LSF being complete morons.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Feanor Noldorin

[Matt Miller]

[quote name='USMC123' timestamp='1340164949' post='2989656']
I promise you beyond a doubt that it was joke. You got the faux outrage part right though.

@Hal, so wouldn't that mean LSF are the classy ones or the ones showing restraint? I mean, they accepted these terms in spite of being a bit unfair not because it would hurt them (they are already at war with NoR, let's be honest, IRON couldn't do much to them if they tried), but because they knew it would put their own allies in a bad spot.
[/quote]

How could you possibly know it was a joke? Promise beyond a doubt, give me a break...

Certain parts of LSF are acting with absolutely no regard for their allies on multiple occasions over the last weeks. Their actions are risking putting their allies in a bad spot. It's not like NoR provoked them into this rogue business out of the blue. It is also not like IRON sought them out and asked them if they could have a member impersonate our President on multiple occasions spewing filth and then asking our allies to declare war. Even if this was a joke (and I certainly don't believe it was), it shows a complete lack of awareness and (as I said) regard for their allies.

[USMC123]

[quote name='Matt Miller' timestamp='1340165431' post='2989660']
How could you possibly know it was a joke? Promise beyond a doubt, give me a break...

Certain parts of LSF are acting with absolutely no regard for their allies on multiple occasions over the last weeks. Their actions are risking putting their allies in a bad spot. It's not like NoR provoked them into this rogue business out of the blue. It is also not like IRON sought them out and asked them if they could have a member impersonate our President on multiple occasions spewing filth and then asking our allies to declare war. Even if this was a joke (and I certainly don't believe it was), it shows a complete lack of awareness and (as I said) regard for their allies.
[/quote]

Well, I do idle their private channel, and while I'm not going to log dump their private channel on here (I will PM you sections of them), I can assure you Opti was not genuinely trying to get GLOF to attack NoR. You can doubt me or call me a liar, but it is the God's honest truth.

e: welp

Edited June 20, 2012 by USMC123

[Auctor]

[quote name='USMC123' timestamp='1340166280' post='2989675']
Well, I do idle their private channel, and while I'm not going to log dump their private channel on here (I will PM you sections of them), I can assure you Opti was not genuinely trying to get GLOF to attack NoR. You can doubt me or call me a liar, but it is the God's honest truth.
[/quote]
that's not really all that was going on, just the nail that got hammered.

[Anarquista]

i certainly believe optimistic and who ever else were just making their stupid jokes, and the LSF had nothing to do with this

[Pacifist Ninja]

[quote name='Anarquista' timestamp='1340167724' post='2989755']
i certainly believe optimistic and who ever else were just making their stupid jokes, and the LSF had nothing to do with this
[/quote]
Anarquista speaks words both true and wise.

[Tehmina]

[quote name='Comrade Craig' timestamp='1340147685' post='2989322']
Cheers, guys. I'm glad this could be resolved amicably.

-Craig
[/quote]
Why are you and trots copying each others avatars and sigs?
I hate it when a read a post thinking that trots has writing it....
and in the end it turns out to be you!

[Unknown Smurf]

It'd be hilarious if IRON did something about this and Int activated just so MK could roll NPO again.

[The Pansy]

[quote name='Comrade Craig' timestamp='1340157549' post='2989548']
I'm personally offended by the LSF's behavior in this affair, because it feels like a slap in the face after everything they've put INT through. We busted our ass to broker something for them, and they respond with this garbage. $%&@ them.

But alas, this is also about IRON's royal family and its belief that it should be immune from ridicule. Some dumb kids made fun of IRON gov on IRC by doing a terrible and unserious parody, and we find ourselves here. IRON gov isn't this vain, nor this petty. No one really believes that this IRC stunt was anything except playful foolishness. This move from IRON can be interpreted only as an intentional provocation and escalation. If this thread had contained a heartfelt and genuine apology (accompanied by whatever other concessions were demanded), Valhalla woulds just show up in a few days with a new manufactured CB.

If anyone wants a piece of me, just click the damn link in my signature already. Why torture the sad little anarchists? We all know they're not the target.

-Craig
[/quote]
You are not the target either, I have told Rush time and time again, it is him and Magicninja, only those 2 heads will settle my blood lust.

[Gingervites]

[quote name='Comrade Craig' timestamp='1340157549' post='2989548']
I'm personally offended by the LSF's behavior in this affair, because it feels like a slap in the face after everything they've put INT through. We busted our ass to broker something for them, and they respond with this garbage. $%&@ them.

But alas, this is also about IRON's royal family and its belief that it should be immune from ridicule. Some dumb kids made fun of IRON gov on IRC by doing a terrible and unserious parody, and we find ourselves here. IRON gov isn't this vain, nor this petty. No one really believes that this IRC stunt was anything except playful foolishness. This move from IRON can be interpreted only as an intentional provocation and escalation. If this thread had contained a heartfelt and genuine apology (accompanied by whatever other concessions were demanded), Valhalla woulds just show up in a few days with a new manufactured CB.

If anyone wants a piece of me, just click the damn link in my signature already. Why torture the sad little anarchists? We all know they're not the target.

-Craig
[/quote]Of course not, LSF is more of a bridge than a target. Int is also not the target more like bait(enabled by LSF's stupidity)for Valhalla to get to other alliances. Now LSF is still your ally and to say "$%&@ them" isn't the best way to address your ally. Everyone in Bob that is at least semi active knows that LSF f#&@ed up and has done/is doing some very stupid things and it is 100% their fault and not yours. Yes IRON got a little butt hurt about this but there is no way that this will go far enough to drag you in so take a chill pill and calm yo titts.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Gingervites

[shahenshah]

[quote name='Comrade Craig' timestamp='1340157549' post='2989548']
I'm personally offended by the LSF's behavior in this affair, because it feels like a slap in the face after everything they've put INT through. We busted our ass to broker something for them, and they respond with this garbage. $%&@ them.

But alas, this is also about IRON's royal family and its belief that it should be immune from ridicule. Some dumb kids made fun of IRON gov on IRC by doing a terrible and unserious parody, and we find ourselves here. IRON gov isn't this vain, nor this petty. No one really believes that this IRC stunt was anything except playful foolishness. This move from IRON can be interpreted only as an intentional provocation and escalation. If this thread had contained a heartfelt and genuine apology (accompanied by whatever other concessions were demanded), Valhalla woulds just show up in a few days with a new manufactured CB.

If anyone wants a piece of me, just click the damn link in my signature already. Why torture the sad little anarchists? We all know they're not the target.

-Craig
[/quote]
Its not NoR that sought out !@#$ with LSF, its not us who sought out !@#$ with LSF...its your allies in LSF who are hell bent on escalating this. Its LSF that has tried again and again to stir up drama and put us, your allies and our common allies and friends in difficult situation. (And you know that very well)

You might downplay impersonating a govt member of one alliance trying to stir up an ally of said alliance to goto war as a joke, but we dont.

IF we wanted to escalate, we'd just do it, not do the opposite in attempting to close it down. I understand you gotta throw in a line of support or something to LSF publicly, but I hope you can give them good advise privately. Seeing their actions, I dont think they care about you.


[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1340159800' post='2989588']
Clearly they are since one of your members issued a callout to The International if I recall correctly, someone in your alliance wanted a shot at Int, no?
[/quote]
He makes a call out every week or two. He doesnt represents his alliance, you'd know if you bothered to read even the first page of said thread. Do you represent our good friends in TPF when you end up saying something less than spectacular?no you dont.

Edited June 20, 2012 by shahenshah

[Pacifist Ninja]

To all those saying that we are recklessly putting our allies in danger, you are laughably misinformed on many levels.
Firstly, the prank of a lone not-so-sober individual at 3 in the morning is obviously not sanctioned by the LSF. Second, we have approximately 17 war slots left open, if IRON were to declare war on us, it wouldn't effect us in the slightest. Therefore the will to concede to IRON's extortion exists almost purely out of deference to our allies. Thirdly, we expelled the member, paid 200 technology, and apologized over the joke. To be frank, expecting more from us and acting morally indignant is patently absurd. Lastly, we could have easily attempted to use this situation as a means of political leverage against MK (who have a strong interest in preventing CnG and DR from in-fighting), but again we refrained from doing so out of deference not to our ally, but to our ally's indirect ally. Honestly, I am tired of all the people pretending to be experts on the political machinations of the LSF and its allies who are completely ignorant of the facts.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Pacifist Ninja

[Laslo Kenez]

Did people really get bent out of shape about being mimicked? Are we all 8 years old?

[White Chocolate]

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1340156149' post='2989528']
LSF had the option to decline apologising, instead they [u]agreed[/u] to it. They could have been adult and mature and said "No", instead they displayed more of their immaturity and disrespect by turning the agreed upon apology into a slap in the face. So if its games and disrespect they want to play with IRON then I see no reason for IRON to not return the favor.......10 fold.
[/quote]

There has never been an apology on the OWF by anyone that was "sincere." The fact that this one includes a payment of technology just makes it even more obvious than usual.

The apology isn't about being sincere. This isn't a "slap in the face" by anyone to anyone else. Wanting a sincere apology is not why alliances ask for public apologies. So lets not pretend like it is.

It's about power. IRON just proved by this apology that the threat of their attack on LSF is a threat that LSF (or at least the person who posted it and the ones in LSF who agreed) considers worth avoiding. IRON wanted it, LSF provided. Deal completed.

Congrats to IRON for their show of power. Time to move on.

Edited June 20, 2012 by White Chocolate