Dispatch from the Dark Templar and CSN

[Emperor Whimsical]

This is actually pretty cool. Congrats to both of you.

I've still yet to understand the logic of a grudge from DT transferring to GATO and since DT have evidently gotten over it, however. And yes, Kerch is pretty great.

[Xiphosis]

[quote name='sammykhalifa' timestamp='1339508546' post='2981491']
It's hilarious to me when people dismiss announcements as unimportant in the big scheme of things [when none of this here is]. As if any other announcement is super-duper important and somehow more worthy of your time.
[/quote]

The man raises a good point. This thread is [i]so[/i] much less important than election results, anniversaries, and NS milestones.

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1339519410' post='2981558']
Is this treaty a truly meaningful document no not really NAPs are fairly irrelevant in the grand scope of things. Heres the thing there is so much BS flying around in the back channels these days that why not sign this. I know DT to be a stand up alliance and if they say weve moved on then they have. Now this just shows CSN that is the truth.
[/quote]

And it shows DT that CSN is serious as well, to be honest. It's a serious statement of intent for both.

[welshgazza1992]

Glad to see this.

o/ Both alliances.

[cookavich]

Congrats on your pretty dumb treaty.

[constapatedape]

o/ CSN
o/ NAPs

[magicninja]

[quote name='Neo Uruk' timestamp='1339537592' post='2981724']
But does he care?
[/quote]

I would hope not.

[porksaber]

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1339538484' post='2981731']
And it shows DT that CSN is serious as well, to be honest. It's a serious statement of intent for both.
[/quote]

To be both honest and serious; seriously honest in fact, and not to mention serious - this is seriously something that someone else has honestly done a seriously honest job of summing up:



[quote name='cookavich' timestamp='1339539450' post='2981740']
Congrats on your pretty dumb treaty.
[/quote]


whoop - there is is!

Edited June 12, 2012 by porksaber

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1339488020' post='2981403']
Its not really my intention to make you change your mind, I would not want to wield that kind of power over anyone. Im not really sure why my opinion has drawn so much attention, simply because I point out the obvious (that a NAP exists between every alliance in the game), so long as no reason to not have a NAP exists. If you need the warm and fuzzies of people congratulating you on burying the hatchet, then by all means, campaign for them.
[/quote]

Actually this is false. A NAP as a treaty, needs a cancellation clause (which this one has and it is 72 hours). Now, most alliances do not have this which means they can be hit by complete surprise (check out the recent trend of preemptive attacks for example). Which means no NAP actually exists without an actual treaty. So, what you said is again false.

To DT and CSN, glad to see ya'll moving on. o/ to moving on

[Thrash]

[quote name='Lord Boris' timestamp='1339526486' post='2981606']
To be completely fair, it's mostly Magicninja and Darth who are the overly verbose ones. Most of GATO are decent folks.
[/quote]

I'm gonna have to third this.

[kerschbs]

Wow, an announcement on the OWF that actually has gotten me out of the plague that has besieged my nation lately (OOC: terrible inactivity due to the relocation for my new job.)

I'm not necessarily the biggest fan of NAP's, however I can certainly appreciate the significance behind this treaty.

When GATO signed our PIAT with NPO after the viceroy ship, it signified that our grudge and vehement hatred for one another was coming to a close. With continued work our relationship has continued to improve. Considering the animosity between CSN and DT over the last few years, I'm sure there is the same sentiment here. I would imagine there was an incredible feeling of relief knowing that they can both finally move on to bigger and better things.

Also hello to SOM and the couple of GOD posters who I haven't had the pleasure of speaking to recently.

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='Lord Boris' timestamp='1339526486' post='2981606']
To be completely fair, it's mostly Magicninja and Darth who are the overly verbose ones. Most of GATO are decent folks.
[/quote]
Thats all i have to base my opinion on.

[quote name='TimLee' timestamp='1339531976' post='2981642']
I'm not here to go back and fourth, but merely wanted to shed some light on the first part of the post. You may seem some GATOans troll threads religiously as Lord Boris eluded to earlier. We for the most part don't worry with policing our membership on the open world forum. Everyone here is looking for posts to confirm their beliefs and argue with the other side to convince them they are wrong. It's 99% drivel and 1% amusement for the most part. It's a never ending cycle and most changes in relations occur on irc and through official diplomatic channels (may it be IRC or Forums.)

You'd be hard pressed to find a member of our Government throwing around any weight people believe we may have gotten from putting on our "big boy pants." Supposing you do find one chances are they weren't serving in a Government capacity in the next term.

GATO has quite solid relations with a good deal of the CSN members from 1V. A gracious plenty of them reside in HB now. We have not forgotten those that stood with us against all odds till the end. I believe our relationship with every IAA since then is indicative of that.

Oh, and Congrats to CSN & DT for beginning the road to patching relations.
[/quote]
For some reason i though MagicNinja was gov. If hes not then I apologize for my statement as members dont always reflect gov. If he is .gov then I stand by my statement.

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1339531986' post='2981643']
I missed you Buds.




As someone who hasn't really cared for GATO for a fairly long time, I can agree with this assessment. Kersch and folks are good people.
[/quote]
SOM my old friend im still here

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1339534635' post='2981675']
As someone who sat at the forefront of the CSN-DT relationship over the course of 2011, I can say with the utmost conviction that this was a bad, bad idea.
, y
Congrats, CSN. You win this round.
[/quote]
As another who was there for pretty much the whole thing this would have never been necessary had certain things been handled better. Bob I like you, your a passionate person, but those in glass houses and all. What has CSN won other than to see that DT holds no ill will. Please explain that to me Bob im all ears on this.

[Shimmer]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1339546610' post='2981799']
For some reason i though MagicNinja was gov. If hes not then I apologize for my statement as members dont always reflect gov. If he is .gov then I stand by my statement.

[/quote]
I don't believe Magicninja has been in Government for at least 1.5 years?

[magicninja]

[quote name='TimLee' timestamp='1339547648' post='2981811']
I don't believe Magicninja has been in Government for at least 1.5 years?
[/quote]
I was MoD for a term last war but was out for a stretch before and since but yeah just that one term in the last year and change....I generally tone it down a lot when I am in gov, I know how it goes.

[KemMo]

Congrats guys, early on bickering was entertaining. Glad you guys are moving forward

[Hereno]

Seriously? Six pages over a !@#$@#$ NAP? God damn it.

Congrats to DT and CSN.

[WarriorConcept]

Respectful move, dt. Congrats guys, the same old script has already gotten stale.

[Bob Ilyani]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1339546610' post='2981799']
As another who was there for pretty much the whole thing this would have never been necessary had certain things been handled better. Bob I like you, your a passionate person, but those in glass houses and all. What has CSN won other than to see that DT holds no ill will. Please explain that to me Bob im all ears on this.
[/quote]

I'll agree with you on the fact that this would not be necessary had things gone somewhat differently. But my reasoning for why this is a political victory for CSN and SF is on the subject of a different matter, which I will explain.

Both you and I (hell, and pretty much the rest of the world while I'm at it) know that the SF alliances are not the kinds to bury the past in favor of the future. No. Instead, they will quite frequently call upon past grievances and old rivalries for the sake of forming a dislike with other alliances/groups. Hell, I don't think a single member of current RoK gov was in their positions when the falling out with SF occurred, and RoK has for all intensive purposes been neutered and is no longer a threat, but that won't stop the SF alliances from fighting a bitter war of hatred with those remaining RoK members, even though the feeling is under no circumstances mutual. So, what I'm basically trying to say is that SF don't forget grudges, at least not permanently. They'll hide them if it's convenient (as a lot of alliances to to be fair) but they don't go away.

So where does that leave DT? DT, like all the other former Mjolnir alliances, was involved in a bitter war of words over IRC and the OWF during the majority of last year. A lot of harsh things were said on both sides and it resulted in a war front that the SF alliances wound up losing. That being said, with MJ as an entity dead and its former alliances scattered, it's not hard to see that SF smells blood in the water. Hell, you could see the rhetoric from the moment MJ's disbandment announcement was posted. The rivalry may be hidden right now, as both SF and many of the former MJ alliances are in the "marginalized" portion of the treaty web, but that is irrelevant. If SF thinks they can subjugate the MJ alliances in the future, they sure as hell will. You can have my word on that one. And, when that happens, treaties like this will only serve to cripple those who stand up against SF. DT won't be able to defend their allies from a SF attack, since they can't fight a key SF members. And that, right there, is the political victory that has been won today.

[Auctor]

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1339552144' post='2981836']
So where does that leave DT? DT, like all the other former Mjolnir alliances, was involved in a bitter war of words over IRC and the OWF during the majority of last year. A lot of harsh things were said on both sides and it resulted in a war front that the SF alliances wound up losing. That being said, with MJ as an entity dead and its former alliances scattered, it's not hard to see that SF smells blood in the water. Hell, you could see the rhetoric from the moment MJ's disbandment announcement was posted. The rivalry may be hidden right now, as both SF and many of the former MJ alliances are in the "marginalized" portion of the treaty web, but that is irrelevant. If SF thinks they can subjugate the MJ alliances in the future, they sure as hell will. You can have my word on that one. And, when that happens, treaties like this will only serve to cripple those who stand up against SF. DT won't be able to defend their allies from a SF attack, since they can't fight a key SF members. And that, right there, is the political victory that has been won today.
[/quote]
The day DT is unable to defend their allies because of a 72 hour cancellation clause is the day they basically gotta realize they have some awful !@#$ allies that can't hold out for three days. That and no great offense to no one intended, CSN just isn't the hugest threat out there.

[Manis B]

[quote name='Auctor' timestamp='1339552394' post='2981837']
The day DT is unable to defend their allies because of a 72 hour cancellation clause is the day they basically gotta realize they have some awful !@#$ allies that can't hold out for three days. That and no great offense to no one intended, CSN just isn't the hugest threat out there.
[/quote]

because everyone knows its colossus!

[Monster]

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1339552144' post='2981836']
I'll agree with you on the fact that this would not be necessary had things gone somewhat differently. But my reasoning for why this is a political victory for CSN and SF is on the subject of a different matter, which I will explain.

Both you and I (hell, and pretty much the rest of the world while I'm at it) know that the SF alliances are not the kinds to bury the past in favor of the future. No. Instead, they will quite frequently call upon past grievances and old rivalries for the sake of forming a dislike with other alliances/groups. Hell, I don't think a single member of current RoK gov was in their positions when the falling out with SF occurred, and RoK has for all intensive purposes been neutered and is no longer a threat, but that won't stop the SF alliances from fighting a bitter war of hatred with those remaining RoK members, even though the feeling is under no circumstances mutual. So, what I'm basically trying to say is that SF don't forget grudges, at least not permanently. They'll hide them if it's convenient (as a lot of alliances to to be fair) but they don't go away.

So where does that leave DT? DT, like all the other former Mjolnir alliances, was involved in a bitter war of words over IRC and the OWF during the majority of last year. A lot of harsh things were said on both sides and it resulted in a war front that the SF alliances wound up losing. That being said, with MJ as an entity dead and its former alliances scattered, it's not hard to see that SF smells blood in the water. Hell, you could see the rhetoric from the moment MJ's disbandment announcement was posted. The rivalry may be hidden right now, as both SF and many of the former MJ alliances are in the "marginalized" portion of the treaty web, but that is irrelevant. If SF thinks they can subjugate the MJ alliances in the future, they sure as hell will. You can have my word on that one. And, when that happens, treaties like this will only serve to cripple those who stand up against SF. DT won't be able to defend their allies from a SF attack, since they can't fight a key SF members. And that, right there, is the political victory that has been won today.
[/quote]


I don't think SF is gunning for RoK. They might still not like RoK, but I don't think they'll go out of their way to get revenge given RoK already capsized and whatnot.

I also think they don't really care about the Mjolnir alliances. Not sure if it would be worth the energy of burning political capital if they ever got into the position of doing something about it. It seemed like a lot of the legit grievances between Mj members and SF were buried with the last war. I honestly don't see SF being a hegemonic force now or in the future simply because of everything that's happened and the fact that non-Mj people are pretty much saying they're going to wipe them out and those people do have the NS to do it. I don't see them ever recovering to the point where they can target people for fun especially given that SF isn't exactly a powerhouse militarily and has lots of things going against it diplomatically.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Roquentin

[Gibsonator21]

tl;dr: Yay us. Yay DT. Lol @ Rush.

[quote name='Neo Uruk' timestamp='1339537592' post='2981724']
But does he care?
[/quote]
Tbh I'm glad I can attract that much hatred from my presence alone.

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1339552144' post='2981836']
Both you and I (hell, and pretty much the rest of the world while I'm at it) know that the SF alliances are not the kinds to bury the past in favor of the future.
[/quote]


Well !@#$, Bob. If you don't get why I did this. Then. Wellp.

[Emperor Whimsical]

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1339552144' post='2981836']
Both you and I (hell, and pretty much the rest of the world while I'm at it) know that the SF alliances are not the kinds to bury the past in favor of the future. No. Instead, they will quite frequently call upon past grievances and old rivalries for the sake of forming a dislike with other alliances/groups. Hell, I don't think a single member of current RoK gov was in their positions when the falling out with SF occurred, and RoK has for all intensive purposes been neutered and is no longer a threat, but that won't stop the SF alliances from fighting a bitter war of hatred with those remaining RoK members, even though the feeling is under no circumstances mutual. So, what I'm basically trying to say is that SF don't forget grudges, at least not permanently. They'll hide them if it's convenient (as a lot of alliances to to be fair) but they don't go away.

[/quote]

We are "not fighting a bitter war of hatred against Rok". In fact, NPL and Rok get along pretty well. I can only speak for GOD, but Rok comes to our forums every few weeks, and pretty much asks how we're doing, and then repeats the same process in few weeks later. Just because your leadership departed, doesn't mean that Ragnarok isn't responsible for its actions. That's not pettiness, that's precedent. Alliances have always been responsible for the actions of their leaders.

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

[quote name='Emperor Whimsical' timestamp='1339554521' post='2981850']
Rok comes to our forums every few weeks, and pretty much asks how we're doing, and then repeats the same process in few weeks later.
[/quote]

You could put up a notice informing them that you are fine, which they can read every-time they visit, along with some common stuff about the weather and 5 fav alliances. That way, banalities can be gotten out of the way and some serious talk can begin.

[King Wally]

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1339552144' post='2981836']
That being said, with MJ as an entity dead and its former alliances scattered, it's not hard to see that SF smells blood in the water. Hell, you could see the rhetoric from the moment MJ's disbandment announcement was posted. The rivalry may be hidden right now, as both SF and many of the former MJ alliances are in the "marginalized" portion of the treaty web, but that is irrelevant. If SF thinks they can subjugate the MJ alliances in the future, they sure as hell will. You can have my word on that one. And, when that happens, treaties like this will only serve to cripple those who stand up against SF. DT won't be able to defend their allies from a SF attack, since they can't fight a key SF members. And that, right there, is the political victory that has been won today.
[/quote]

Your intel is pretty sharp man. There's litterally nothing SF wants more then to restart the Mj fueds hey. This masterstroke of a 72 hour cancelation clause is all we need now to disable their armys and pillage their towns and steal their slighty hairy yet amazingly beautiful nordic women. Then we shall rule the world!!!

Seriously though sometimes you've got to move on man, not everyone has the same grudge-obsession you do. And trust me... the only RoKers in my sights are the ones working the meadhall bar. I'll show them for chargin Old Man Wally inflated visitor rates at the tavern!