Krunk the Great Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Usually you refute someones argument when you respond. I did not see this in the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1295662553' post='2590314'] Doesn't [i]anyone[/i] find the fact VE set up and even [i]admit[/i] to setting up Polaris with this CB a CB in and of itself? [/quote] Damnit, MVP, don't try and bring common sense in here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branimir Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1295662553' post='2590314']Doesn't [i]anyone[/i] find the fact VE set up and even [i]admit[/i] to setting up Polaris with this CB a CB in and of itself?[/quote] I think that most here understand what basically happened. If not at the moment of the DoWs, then now. But they will not be swayed from their party lines. At least this is a very transparent war, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1295662553' post='2590314'] Doesn't [i]anyone[/i] find the fact VE set up and even [i]admit[/i] to setting up Polaris with this CB a CB in and of itself? [/quote] Polaris are free to declare war on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Interesting rebuttal...and the war continues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1295662725' post='2590322'] Read his logs. Notice where I said "if it all checks out". We were only rolling if it was true and there were no objections for mutual parties, and both questions were answered. [/quote] Objections from mutual parties? Does mutual parties include RoK? Or did I just misunderstand what you're talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphosis Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='The Flying Scotsman' timestamp='1295662505' post='2590311'] Thanks for proving my point Xiph that VE was going to roll NpO regardless of what happened. [/quote] Again, pretty words that lack substance. VE was going to roll NpO because an active member of VE came to them with logs wherein the #2 in command of another alliance suggested he reroll into them to spy. That was all VE needed to go stomp Polar. It's a perfectly valid CB in itself and it's not without precedent [that was rollable long before the UJW, much less now that CB's have been cheapened beyond repair]. I had personal doubts as to the logs authenticity, especially after Impero mentioned it was Lennox. That was where the supposed 'setup' came into play. The key points being: A) Had Dajabo not actually been involved and Lennox couldn't come up with anything note worthy, Impero said he'd concede it wasn't true and walk away. See my logs above - near the end. B) VE was going to roll for Lennox being in VE on Dajabo's suggestion prior to the 'setup'. It was a confirmation of a suspicion, nothing more or less. Had Dajabo done nothing and been guilty of nothing, this war would not have happened. Plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R&R-Viking Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1295662765' post='2590325'] Is it really fair to tolerate injustice if it happened to people who were unjust?[/quote] Yes, yes it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janax Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1295662765' post='2590325'] If the people in power can do that what do they plan on doing next? Who will they go after next? I pray I'm wrong, but I'm not going to bet on it. [/quote] Is this the Polar side buzzword? I hear you are using that "rallying cry" trying to sway some of the alliances not engaged. You guys really think the alliances you sold out last war are looking to ride to your defense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenacres Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) You took screenshots of logs you loaded into mIRC, and as we all know from the whole illuminati mess a few years back, mIRC logs are very easy to edit, and load back into mirc. I'm not saying you did what people are accusing you of, but just know that mirc logs are pretty damn low on the totem pole of evidence. edit: I think it was illuminati, or the guy who ran it.. whatever, it was someone from back then. Edited January 22, 2011 by greenacres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1295662872' post='2590333'] Objections from mutual parties? Does mutual parties include RoK? Or did I just misunderstand what you're talking about? [/quote] Yes, it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Virginia Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [color="#0000FF"]So you don't deny that this was a set up at all? Well, at least you're being slightly less dishonest now. I suppose that counts for something. But yes, Dajobo says that if he were to spy he'd spy on someone relevant. That's like me saying if I were to attack someone I'd attack VE. It doesn't necessarily mean a thing. It's just talk. Lennox went to VE of his own accord, and not on anyone's orders. He went there with the intent to screw over Polaris, and you happily helped him.[/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='greenacres' timestamp='1295663050' post='2590344'] You took screenshots of logs you loaded into mIRC, and as we all know from the whole illuminati mess a few years back, mIRC logs are very easy to edit, and load back into mirc. I'm not saying you did what people are accusing you of, but just know that mirc logs are pretty damn low on the totem pole of evidence. [/quote] The screens show they haven't been edited since the last conversation they had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The MVP Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) [quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1295662762' post='2590324'] You still set them up. You could have just as easily laughed it off and never gave Lennox anything. Doesn't completely exonerate Dajobo for his actions but you could have stopped this thing before it ever got off the ground. You chose not to. I think that is the detail most people will focus on. Quite frankly you have no defense for it. It's ok I can't complain. I'm not in it for VE or Polar. I'm in it for my pals. [/quote] I agree with ya 100%. I don't care for Polaris and am only doing this for my friends as well wherever the chips may lay however the fact no one thinks the fact that the initial set up condoned by VE and admitted isn't the true CB is just astounding. Yes I know the sides were predetermined, we all knew this was going to happen, etc. etc. but the level of ignorance about the entire situation is incredible. How does VE waive the bait in front of Polaris than declare a war in [i]defense[/i], of all things, and then get shown to have not told the whole story and have this look all defensive in nature? Fact is VE scraped by just enough to give everyone who was on their side a good enough reason and all those who are looking on to see what they want to see and give them not a perfect, but a good enough reason to just roll Polaris. Let's cut through all the fluff and get right to the chase. Edited January 22, 2011 by The MVP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='Viking' timestamp='1295662958' post='2590338'] Yes, yes it is. [/quote] I guess we just disagree there. I like standing up for my morals no matter who it is. Otherwise, [quote name='janax' timestamp='1295662966' post='2590340'] Is this the Polar side buzzword? I hear you are using that "rallying cry" trying to sway some of the alliances not engaged. You guys really think the alliances you sold out last war are looking to ride to your defense? [/quote] I didn't sell out a single alliance. So "you guys" is incorrect. IAA had a very easy way out of this. We could have followed Athens out with PC. However, I believe we were all genuinely concerned what would be next. Polar $%&@ed over a lot of people. I won't deny that. I just hope that they learned some humility from that though. They've paid for it by being isolated and un-trusted. This war isn't about last war though. This is PB flexing their muscle. Nice try in trying to equate me with betraying people though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeJeezy Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 I wish both of you would shut the $%&@ up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1295662765' post='2590325'] Is it really fair to tolerate injustice if it happened to people who were unjust? Honestly, if this was GOONS being set up I'd be just as angry as I am with Polar. Let me be honest, if this was Pacifca being set up it'd take all the strength it had in me to not cheer for the other side, but I'd not be happy. The only thing that worries me is the fact that in two political moves (MK canceling all their treaties and the forming of PB) a whole group of alliances were deleted from the Super-Grievance side. If the people in power can do that what do they plan on doing next? Who will they go after next? I pray I'm wrong, but I'm not going to bet on it. [/quote] Oh please! As if Polar would never plot to destroy someone if they were in power. Everybody does it, and if everybody doesn't then they bloody well should. Edited January 22, 2011 by Johnny Apocalypse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1295663092' post='2590346'] Yes, it does. [/quote] Well atm it doesn't look like RoK really supports the rolling of their ally. So, does that mean VE will be peacing out soon? Edited January 22, 2011 by Omniscient1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Levistus Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1295662765' post='2590325'] Is it really fair to tolerate injustice if it happened to people who were unjust?[/quote] Who ever claimed life was fair? Edited January 22, 2011 by Lord Levistus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midkn1ght Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1295661860' post='2590263'] And then GOD didn't believe it, so they got you, personally, to give Lennox screenshots to give to Dajobo. Who opened them, having no idea what they were. [/quote] Some corrections Pezstar. Xiph was still trying to give Polar the benefit of doubt. He advised to be 100% sure, and even said that they need to screen shot a whois [b]if[/b] the spy talk were to take place again, cause txt logs can be screwed with easy. That's all he advised. Don't try to say he told them to set up a honeypot, cause he didn't. All he was saying is he didn't believe it was Daj, but if VE still felt it was, they better be damned sure. Give him more credit then that, he's sitting there telling our closest ally to be really, really, really sure that their worst enemy is really trying to mess with them, while telling Impero he thinks the whole thing is suspect/bs unless they can get more proof. Personally if I was Impero and had what I thought was "rock solid proof" of a hated enemy serving their head up on a silver platter, and my best friend laughed at me and told me to be careful and get another batch of proof, I'd of flipped my wig he was still sticking up for the other side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1295662553' post='2590314'] Doesn't [i]anyone[/i] find the fact VE set up and even [i]admit[/i] to setting up Polaris with this CB a CB in and of itself? [/quote] The "set-up" was only confirmation of Dajobo's intentions. If one of NpO's allies wants to declare on VE over it they are free to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenacres Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1295663128' post='2590351'] The screens show they haven't been edited since the last conversation they had. [/quote] They're simple text files. You could fake an entire conversation with a person that never actually happened, and load it back up into mirc and take screenshots of them. Again, I'm not saying he's guilty of anything, just that he should know mirc logs are nowhere near concrete. [edit:] And my personal feelings on this matter is that NpO is !@#$, so it would be hard to say I'm biased against VE in this instance. VE is by far the lesser of two evils. Edited January 22, 2011 by greenacres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1295663213' post='2590358'] Oh please! As if Polar would never plot to destroy someone if they were in power. Everybody does it, and if everybody doesn't then they bloody well should. [/quote] Actually, I don't think they would be. I think they learned from the last war getting into someone else's business isn't a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) Its thick enough now guys...cant stir it anymore! Edit* Also I noticed the pages on other threads were suddenly not rolling fast, suspected another thread! Funtime. Edited January 22, 2011 by shahenshah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypoNinja Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1295663168' post='2590355'] Polar $%&@ed over a lot of people. I won't deny that. I just hope that they learned some humility from that though. [/quote] Humility? One of the Orders? I wouldn't hold your breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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