Response to Rebel Virginia's False Accusations

[PotFace]

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1295668638' post='2590670']
The fact that he was the one who mentioned that he saved your butts multiple times shows that you have no integrity. You only "stood up" for him after he mentioned all this. And your side has no individuality, if we're going by your standard. Everyone else is lockstep in showing Xiph hate.
[/quote]

I suppose if we actively participated in spying, we would have been aware of his efforts to "save our butts multiple times". But we don't, as everyone now knows. And clearly, I'm showing plenty of individuality. I think that perhaps both of us would be better informed of each side's take on this matter if there were some form of communication that had been opened up. We attempted it, but were denied that opportunity. Now look at the situation.

Cause and Effect.

[D34th]

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1295668690' post='2590674']
While that would definitely be to Polaris's benefit, it would not be in the interests of VE nor GOD. I see no reason why I should've purposefully encouraged my ally to walk into a PR trap and potentially start a major war over nothing.
[/quote]

Over nothing you say if the logs were faked? Or over nothing since suggest someone that VE or MK is a better target than MHA is just state the obvious?

[LordBucks]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1295668494' post='2590664']
Seeing the result of the idea? Yes, it would make the CB much more weak than it already is since the first VE excuses for the war was "He not only suggested lennox to spy but asked for the screenshots links!". You thought about ask Dajobo to see if the logs were true? You know Dajobo enough to know that he wont lie about that.
[/quote]

No offense, but we don't do anything for you. Yeah we were, maybe are getting more friendly with one another but VE are our Permanant MDAP partners. We have rolled with them for less.

Our job wasn't to make CB's look weak. It was to keep good allies like Genesis/ ARES and RoK from getting rolled.

Edited January 22, 2011 by LordBucks

[Choson]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1295668842' post='2590679']
[color="#0000FF"]Polar hasn't done anything wrong except earn the disfavor of the power structure. It is a simple matter of fact that regardless of what Polaris does, right or wrong, it will still have their wrath. It matters not how inconsequential or how nonexistent the perceived offense is, it will be blown out of proportion by those who wish to do the NpO harm every single time. I know you're defending VE because they are your friends, and have been your closest ally for as long as your alliance has existed, but I am sure even you can see that the story they've given is weak. It is about as strong as the spying charges levied against GATO, both times, or the numerous other silly CBs we have seen over the years. MK I am sure we can all acknowledge to be one of the most competent alliances out there, but in the past they were always under scrutiny and warned to get their house in order. They weren't doing any wrong. They were simply a target. By some miracle the NPO never managed to turn any of that nothing into a CB, but maybe had they had more time....

I'm not going to go on a long diatribe. You're a smart guy. You should understand perfectly well what I am saying.[/color]
[/quote]
That's a pretty long diatribe, to be quite honest.

And why do you have to underhandedly insult Xiph, RV? It's not like you're talking in huge words that have fallen into disuse.

[Aurion]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1295668978' post='2590687']
Over nothing you say if the logs were faked? Or over nothing since suggest someone that VE or MK is a better target than MHA is just state the obvious?
[/quote]

Wow that's not a incredibly loaded question [i]at all[/i].

But the first one is correct regardless.

[Xiphosis]

[quote]Polar hasn't done anything wrong except earn the disfavor of the power structure.[/quote]

[i]Up until this point[/i] they had done nothing of any substance wrong except that, but we will have to agree to disagree on that. I know perfectly well what you're saying, and all I can say is; cry me a !@#$@#$ river. How many alliances have been in the situation of having the power structure want you dead? We all survived Q, did we not? Who went through that whole period [b]without[/b] that bloc wanting them dead? Or BLEU wanting them dead? Or WUT? Or UJP?

You adapt. You politik. You deter. Polar did none of these things micro-alliances have been able to pull off before. GOD at it's most irrelevant showed severely more FA competence than NpO has in the last few months, so I really have no sympathy. You cannot be that bad at the basics and be as large as Polaris without someone cramming it down your throat at some point.

We both know that's the way CN is. It's hyper-natural selection.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1295669025' post='2590690']
That's a pretty long diatribe, to be quite honest.

And why do you have to underhandedly insult Xiph, RV? It's not like you're talking in huge words that have fallen into disuse.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Underhanded insults? There are none present except in your little fantasy world. If I am going to insult someone, which I have done countless times, I will do it quite openly. I have no reason to hide my opinions.[/color]

[PotFace]

[quote name='LordBucks' timestamp='1295668989' post='2590689']
Our job wasn't to make CB's look weak. It was to keep good allies like Genesis/ ARES and RoK from getting rolled.
[/quote]

Edit: That seems to be standard, actually now that I think about it a little more.

Edited January 22, 2011 by PotFace

[D34th]

[quote name='LordBucks' timestamp='1295668989' post='2590689']
No offense, but we don't do anything for you. Yeah we were, maybe are getting more friendly with one another but VE are our Permanant MDAP partners. We have rolled with them for less.

Our job wasn't to make CB's look weak. It was to keep good allies like Genesis/ ARES and RoK from getting rolled.
[/quote]


Oh so you agree that without the screenshots idea the CB would look weaker, finally.

Also I don't think Xiphosis need all you guys answering question for him, I know you guys love him and all but I'm sure that he is totally capable of answer them for himself if he wants to.

[Lusitan]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1295663287' post='2590366']
The "set-up" was only confirmation of Dajobo's intentions.

If one of NpO's allies wants to declare on VE over it they are free to do so.
[/quote]

I might be wrong, but this sure looks like the "do something about it" that was missing so far

Edited January 22, 2011 by Lusitan

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1295669259' post='2590704']
[i]Up until this point[/i] they had done nothing of any substance wrong except that, but we will have to agree to disagree on that. I know perfectly well what you're saying, and all I can say is; cry me a !@#$@#$ river. How many alliances have been in the situation of having the power structure want you dead? We all survived Q, did we not? Who went through that whole period [b]without[/b] that bloc wanting them dead? Or BLEU wanting them dead? Or WUT? Or UJP?

You adapt. You politik. You deter. Polar did none of these things micro-alliances have been able to pull off before. GOD at it's most irrelevant showed severely more FA competence than NpO has in the last few months, so I really have no sympathy. You cannot be that bad at the basics and be as large as Polaris without someone cramming it down your throat at some point.

We both know that's the way CN is. It's hyper-natural selection.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Bah. I cry not. In fact I look forward to getting to lob a few nukes at some of you. I'm merely saying this is all rubbish and lies. If you people had even the slightest ounce of balls you'd just come out and say you wanted the NpO dead. You wouldn't have to hide behind this sorry charade of justice or virtues or whatever you want to call it.[/color]

[Aurion]

[quote name='PotFace' timestamp='1295669399' post='2590709']
If you ever find yourself having to go to war all the time to keep other people from being rolled, out of their willingness to go to war so quickly, then you are participating in flawed politics.
[/quote]

And yet, up until now that war never happened.

Funny how that coincided exactly with your Regent handing out a reason on a golden platter isn't it?

Edited January 22, 2011 by Aurion

[Midkn1ght]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1295668806' post='2590678']
What I'm saying is: The idea to give Lennox screenshots made thing worse than they were at principle and nobody can deny that.
[/quote]

And what I'm saying is, there was never a mention of giving Lennox screenshot, not from Xiph, who several in this thread are trying to pin it on, since I guess the VE hate train is full, and we're catching the overflow. He's blameless in this.

[Dexomega]

A response to the response that responded to your response?

Argh, my head.

[LordBucks]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1295669411' post='2590710']
Oh so you agree that without the screenshots idea the CB would look weaker, finally.

Also I don't think Xiphosis need all you guys answering question for him, I know you guys love him and all but I'm sure that he is totally capable of answer them for himself if he wants to.
[/quote]

So you would rather we gave this war the go ahead without making sure?

Yeah...OWF just isn't for me.

[D34th]

[quote name='Midkn1ght' timestamp='1295669648' post='2590722']
And what I'm saying is, there was never a mention of giving Lennox screenshot, not from Xiph, who several in this thread are trying to pin it on, since I guess the VE hate train is full, and we're catching the overflow. He's blameless in this.
[/quote]

You can only blame Xiphosis for people thinking that he was the one who gave the idea, since they more or less said it in his first post in this thread(he even bolded it):
[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1295661490' post='2590234']
Okay, I have to confess to being pretty pissed off to see R_V and others try and tar VE/Impero for the screenshot stuff for one simple reason – they did it [b]because I asked them to[/b].
[/quote]

[quote name='LordBucks' timestamp='1295669761' post='2590733']
So you would rather we gave this war the go ahead without making sure?

Yeah...OWF just isn't for me.
[/quote]

No, I just suggested that there were better ways to see if the logs were real than giving screenshots for Lennox.

Edited January 22, 2011 by D34th

[Xiphosis]

[quote]I'm merely saying this is all rubbish and lies.[/quote]

And yet, am I wrong? Polar had 2 months to keep PB off it's back. They had an instruction manual hand-written and delivered to them, by me, for how to let PB know they weren't hostile [as was believed] without bending over for them. Small things. Talk to this guy, and that guy. Make some off the record friends. Be nice. Very easy, very basic.

Polaris, instead, clings on to all their allies - no matter how belligerent or how loose they were with waving Polar's guns around [I dare Dajabo to dump logs of the UINE stuff to NpO membership. Much less UPN or TKTB. Dare you, old friend. See how they feel about being used as meatshields for pompous little scumbags like that]. They shun and cold shoulder everyone in PB. They ally Legion, STA allies TPF. They let the RoK and NV ties fall into disuse.

They failed on a very fundamental, basic, elementary level. It's unacceptable for the caliber of alliance they can be and they paid/are paying the price for it. That's why you don't see me all that fussed about it. We tried to coddle them to an embarrassing degree and they just could not man the hell up.

[PotFace]

[quote name='Aurion' timestamp='1295669542' post='2590716']
And yet, up until now that war never happened.

Funny how that coincided exactly with your Regent handing out a reason on a golden platter isn't it?
[/quote]


That statement says so much about you and who you represent it's not even funny.

[Choson]

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1295669890' post='2590739']
And yet, am I wrong? Polar had 2 months to keep PB off it's back. They had an instruction manual hand-written and delivered to them, by me, for how to let PB know they weren't hostile [as was believed] without bending over for them. Small things. Talk to this guy, and that guy. Make some off the record friends. Be nice. Very easy, very basic.

Polaris, instead, clings on to all their allies - no matter how belligerent or how loose they were with waving Polar's guns around [I dare Dajabo to dump logs of the UINE stuff to NpO membership. Much less UPN or TKTB. Dare you, old friend. See how they feel about being used as meatshields for pompous little scumbags like that]. They shun and cold shoulder everyone in PB. They ally Legion, STA allies TPF. They let the RoK and NV ties fall into disuse.

They failed on a very fundamental, basic, elementary level. It's unacceptable for the caliber of alliance they can be and they paid/are paying the price for it. That's why you don't see me all that fussed about it. We tried to coddle them to an embarrassing degree and they just could not man the hell up.
[/quote]
Bootstraps, baby! Gotta pick themselves up by their bootstraps!

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1295669890' post='2590739']
And yet, am I wrong? Polar had 2 months to keep PB off it's back. They had an instruction manual hand-written and delivered to them, by me, for how to let PB know they weren't hostile [as was believed] without bending over for them. Small things. Talk to this guy, and that guy. Make some off the record friends. Be nice. Very easy, very basic.

Polaris, instead, clings on to all their allies - no matter how belligerent or how loose they were with waving Polar's guns around [I dare Dajabo to dump logs of the UINE stuff to NpO membership. Much less UPN or TKTB. Dare you, old friend. See how they feel about being used as meatshields for pompous little scumbags like that]. They shun and cold shoulder everyone in PB. They ally Legion, STA allies TPF. They let the RoK and NV ties fall into disuse.

They failed on a very fundamental, basic, elementary level. It's unacceptable for the caliber of alliance they can be and they paid/are paying the price for it. That's why you don't see me all that fussed about it. We tried to coddle them to an embarrassing degree and they just could not man the hell up.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]You know, you probably know a bit more about the current FA politics of Polar than I do. I've been out of the loop for a long time. But I don't really care. I've had strong informal ties to Polaris since 2007, so if they burn I do too. If it were up to me the NSO would have entered already on their behalf. I guess I'll have to wait and see.[/color]

[Midkn1ght]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1295669807' post='2590735']
You can only blame Xiphosis for people thinking that he was the one who gave the idea, since they more or less said it in his first post in this thread(he even bolded it):


No, I just suggested that there were better ways to see if the logs were real than giving screenshots for Lennox.
[/quote]

[quote]Okay, I have to confess to being pretty pissed off to see R_V and others try and tar VE/Impero for the screenshot stuff for one simple reason – they did it because I asked them to. [/quote]

Maybe if they're the typical denizen of these parts with zero reading comprehension sure, but anyone can read down a few lines and see that's just poorly worded. He asked for screenshots to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that that was indeed the real guy. I can see your point though, of why folks might think that. Then again I'm talking about expecting reading comp in here, what the heck and I thinking, lol.

Edited January 22, 2011 by Midkn1ght

[PMoses]

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1295669890' post='2590739']
And yet, am I wrong? Polar had 2 months to keep PB off it's back. They had an instruction manual hand-written and delivered to them, by me, for how to let PB know they weren't hostile [as was believed] without bending over for them. Small things. Talk to this guy, and that guy. Make some off the record friends. Be nice. Very easy, very basic.

Polaris, instead, clings on to all their allies - no matter how belligerent or how loose they were with waving Polar's guns around [I dare Dajabo to dump logs of the UINE stuff to NpO membership. Much less UPN or TKTB. Dare you, old friend. See how they feel about being used as meatshields for pompous little scumbags like that]. They shun and cold shoulder everyone in PB. They ally Legion, STA allies TPF. They let the RoK and NV ties fall into disuse.

They failed on a very fundamental, basic, elementary level. It's unacceptable for the caliber of alliance they can be and they paid/are paying the price for it. That's why you don't see me all that fussed about it. We tried to coddle them to an embarrassing degree and they just could not man the hell up.
[/quote]

So alliances have to ally who PB/GoD wants them to, and not be able to be sovereign alliances and choose who they wish to have IRC pow wows with? If thats the case.. Hell my alliance will be the next rolled because honestly.. There isn't an alliance in the PB block I would ally to over a piece of Garbage. but hey.. thats why they don't let me do FA.

[The MVP]

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1295669890' post='2590739']
And yet, am I wrong? Polar had 2 months to keep PB off it's back. They had an instruction manual hand-written and delivered to them, by me, for how to let PB know they weren't hostile [as was believed] without bending over for them. Small things. Talk to this guy, and that guy. Make some off the record friends. Be nice. Very easy, very basic.

Polaris, instead, clings on to all their allies - no matter how belligerent or how loose they were with waving Polar's guns around [I dare Dajabo to dump logs of the UINE stuff to NpO membership. Much less UPN or TKTB. Dare you, old friend. See how they feel about being used as meatshields for pompous little scumbags like that]. They shun and cold shoulder everyone in PB. They ally Legion, STA allies TPF. They let the RoK and NV ties fall into disuse.

They failed on a very fundamental, basic, elementary level. It's unacceptable for the caliber of alliance they can be and they paid/are paying the price for it. That's why you don't see me all that fussed about it. We tried to coddle them to an embarrassing degree and they just could not man the hell up.
[/quote]

So you set out to have Polaris get closer to PB? What if PB didn't want to become closer to Polaris? Why the hell does Polaris need to even be closer to PB?

The questions I ask...

[KCToker]

[quote name='PMoses' timestamp='1295670167' post='2590762']
So alliances have to ally who PB/GoD wants them to, and not be able to be sovereign alliances and choose who they wish to have IRC pow wows with? If thats the case.. Hell my alliance will be the next rolled because honestly.. There isn't an alliance in the PB block I would ally to over a piece of Garbage. but hey.. thats why they don't let me do FA.
[/quote]
God and here I thought reading Hal's posts killed my braincells.

EDIT: GG, Grammar, GG.

Edited January 22, 2011 by KCToker

[PotFace]

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1295669890' post='2590739']
And yet, am I wrong? Polar had 2 months to keep PB off it's back. They had an instruction manual hand-written and delivered to them, by me, for how to let PB know they weren't hostile [as was believed] without bending over for them. Small things. Talk to this guy, and that guy. Make some off the record friends. Be nice. Very easy, very basic.

Polaris, instead, clings on to all their allies - no matter how belligerent or how loose they were with waving Polar's guns around [I dare Dajabo to dump logs of the UINE stuff to NpO membership. Much less UPN or TKTB. Dare you, old friend. See how they feel about being used as meatshields for pompous little scumbags like that]. They shun and cold shoulder everyone in PB. They ally Legion, STA allies TPF. They let the RoK and NV ties fall into disuse.

They failed on a very fundamental, basic, elementary level. It's unacceptable for the caliber of alliance they can be and they paid/are paying the price for it. That's why you don't see me all that fussed about it. We tried to coddle them to an embarrassing degree and they just could not man the hell up.
[/quote]


Nice try at changing the subject. I'll humor you for just a few minutes on that one, if I may...

I think it's pretty clear that looking at Polaris and VE, it's pretty easy to determine who had the most hostility. It's not the Order's responsibility to ensure that **THOSE** guys don't make fools out of themselves in front of the entire planet in the manner which they have for this war. What I see are a bunch of trigger-happy warmongers that would seemingly stop at nothing to engage in a war with Polaris. I would have shunned and cold shouldered everyone in PB as well.

Edit: It's been a long day, lol, sorry

Edited January 22, 2011 by PotFace