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Response to Rebel Virginia's False Accusations


Il Impero Romano

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[quote name='Brandon Simonson' timestamp='1295926116' post='2597793']
Was the frank advice Xiph saying that VE should attack NpO? If so, by analogy, that's an order to attack. Not merely his opinion because he's high government member that someone might not trust.

Just saying. :rolleyes:
[/quote]
Care to point out where he said that? In all the logs I've seen he was saying pretty close to the opposite.

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[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1295926331' post='2597803']
Care to point out where he said that? In all the logs I've seen he was saying pretty close to the opposite.
[/quote]

It was a joke; however it would still have made a poignant analogy.

Sorry to have confused you and no offense meant to Xiph.

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[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1295925774' post='2597780']
Once again, your argument is "Dajobo can't have wanted to spy on VE because he said so!" I, if you bothered to notice, never said anything about what Dajobo did or didn't intend to do. I am simply pointing out a simple fallacy to a single argument that you have repeated endlessly. When I look at the Dajobo-Lennox logs I see what looks to me like Dajobo setting up a spy while using doublespeak to maintain official deniability. When you look at them you see Dajobo joking around and making friendly suggestions. The interpretation simply depends on how much you trust Dajobo's integrity. Given that he's high gov in Polar, I trust him about as far as I can throw him.

Also, there's no evidence whatsoever that Xiphosis or Sera were involved in the inciting incident of this war. The only logs relating to Xiph at all are when he was giving his frank advice to Impero, an allied leader.
[/quote]

so what you are saying is that you are reading what you want to into what occurred instead of reading the words as they are actually written? i don't care how you [b]interpret[/b] them, because interpretation fails without any actual evidentiary support to back it up. you have no support other than again, your interpretations of what actually happened.

kthx. now that we got that tidbit settled, we can move on. Xiph stated himself that he told Impero to use Lennox to give screenshots to Dajobo. so, yes, i would state that Xiph had a large hand in starting this war and not only that but a large hand in setting up the ally of Ragnarok, which shows that Xiph is far less trustworthy than you want to state. and given ya'lls predilection with stating that if the gov does it, then the alliance does, that means that all of GOD had a hand in trying to manufacture a CB for the sole purpose of creating war with an ally of Ragnarok. VE did so with an ally of Nueva Vida. Then to cover their asses, they lied their asses off about what actually occurred.

now that we have that tidbit settled, do ya'll really want to continue? cuz, right now, ya'll not looking that good at all and one can only hope that GOD/VE get more than just RoK/NV to cancel on them since it is blatantly obvious that both alliances are willing to manufacture a CB to war, and not only that but to war against allies of GOD/or VE. if i was in an ally that was once removed from either GOD or VE, i would be wondering if i was next.

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[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1295926798' post='2597821']
so what you are saying is that you are reading what you want to into what occurred instead of reading the words as they are actually written? i don't care how you [b]interpret[/b] them, because interpretation fails without any actual evidentiary support to back it up. you have no support other than again, your interpretations of what actually happened.

kthx. now that we got that tidbit settled, we can move on. Xiph stated himself that he told Impero to use Lennox to give screenshots to Dajobo. so, yes, i would state that Xiph had a large hand in starting this war and not only that but a large hand in setting up the ally of Ragnarok, which shows that Xiph is far less trustworthy than you want to state. and given ya'lls predilection with stating that if the gov does it, then the alliance does, that means that all of GOD had a hand in trying to manufacture a CB for the sole purpose of creating war with an ally of Ragnarok. VE did so with an ally of Nueva Vida. Then to cover their asses, they lied their asses off about what actually occurred.

now that we have that tidbit settled, do ya'll really want to continue? cuz, right now, ya'll not looking that good at all and one can only hope that GOD/VE get more than just RoK/NV to cancel on them since it is blatantly obvious that both alliances are willing to manufacture a CB to war, and not only that but to war against allies of GOD/or VE. if i was in an ally that was once removed from either GOD or VE, i would be wondering if i was next.
[/quote]

So you think Xiph wanted to engineer a war to take out NpO? You really are clueless. :lol1:

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[quote name='Audran' timestamp='1295928016' post='2597853']
So you think Xiph wanted to engineer a war to take out NpO? [b]You really are clueless. :lol1:[/b]
[/quote]

not really. i have no actual clue to be honest other than Xiph stating he gave advice to Impero about using Lennox to give screenshots to Dajobo.

as Brandon stated, it is also relevant in that i and others could easily [i]interpret[/i] the events to be the way i stated with just as much evidence as you guys have on Dajobo (more really since Xiph did state he talked to Impero about this event and what to do, which is far more than what Dajobo did with Lennox).

but the bolded, really applies to all those who think that Dajobo tried to start a spy ring.

Edited by Dochartaigh
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[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1295928742' post='2598017']
not really. i have no actual clue to be honest other than Xiph stating he gave advice to Impero about using Lennox to give screenshots to Dajobo.

as Brandon stated, it is also relevant in that i and others could easily [i]interpret[/i] the events to be the way i stated with just as much evidence as you guys have on Dajobo (more really since Xiph did state he talked to Impero about this event and what to do, which is far more than what Dajobo did with Lennox).

but the bolded, really applies to all those who think that Dajobo tried to start a spy ring.
[/quote]

If you read some of the posts at the start of the thread, you'll see that Xiph has been doing his best to keep NpO's bacon out of the fire ever since BiPolar.

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[quote name='Brandon Simonson' timestamp='1295926797' post='2597820']
It was a joke; however it would still have made a poignant analogy.

Sorry to have confused you and no offense meant to Xiph.
[/quote]
I'm sure no offense was taken and I'm sorry to have misunderstood your tone. The way people are around here you never can tell...

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1295926798' post='2597821']
so what you are saying is that you are reading what you want to into what occurred instead of reading the words as they are actually written? i don't care how you [b]interpret[/b] them, because interpretation fails without any actual evidentiary support to back it up. you have no support other than again, your interpretations of what actually happened.
[/quote]
What I'm saying is that the "he wasn't spying because he said so" argument doesn't fly because it relies entirely on Dajobo being entirely honest.
[quote]
kthx. now that we got that tidbit settled, we can move on. Xiph stated himself that he told Impero to use Lennox to give screenshots to Dajobo. so, yes, i would state that Xiph had a large hand in starting this war and not only that but a large hand in setting up the ally of Ragnarok, which shows that Xiph is far less trustworthy than you want to state. and given ya'lls predilection with stating that if the gov does it, then the alliance does, that means that all of GOD had a hand in trying to manufacture a CB for the sole purpose of creating war with an ally of Ragnarok. VE did so with an ally of Nueva Vida. Then to cover their asses, they lied their asses off about what actually occurred.
[/quote]
No one set up Ragnarok. There was some sort of confusion in the higher levels of Rok government that I'm not really in a position to discuss - you should maybe ask their new leader about it - that gave a number of Rokkers this impression, who then relayed it to the OWF. The fact of the matter is that it was clearly communicated to Rok that SF would be supporting VE, and no one at Rok told us they were siding with Polar.
[quote]
now that we have that tidbit settled, do ya'll really want to continue? cuz, right now, ya'll not looking that good at all and one can only hope that GOD/VE get more than just RoK/NV to cancel on them since it is blatantly obvious that both alliances are willing to manufacture a CB to war, and not only that but to war against allies of GOD/or VE. if i was in an ally that was once removed from either GOD or VE, i would be wondering if i was next.
[/quote]
GOD has in fact been getting serious flak from our allies lately. Not over going to war with NpO, but because we had been trying to [i]prevent[/i] war with NpO. I was, personally, unaware of this at the time or else I would be having a serious I-told-you-so moment with Xiph right now over the way we've been getting treated by Polar and her allies.

I hope I've cleared things up for you.

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[quote name='Audran' timestamp='1295929407' post='2598179']
If you read some of the posts at the start of the thread, you'll see that Xiph has been doing his best to keep NpO's bacon out of the fire ever since BiPolar.
[/quote]

"Okay, I have to confess to being pretty pissed off to see R_V and others try and tar VE/Impero for the screenshot stuff for one simple reason – they did it because I asked them to."

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97492&st=0&p=2590234&#entry2590234 (i.e. 2nd post in this thread)

kthxbai.

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[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1295929891' post='2598261']
"Okay, I have to confess to being pretty pissed off to see R_V and others try and tar VE/Impero for the screenshot stuff for one simple reason – they did it because I asked them to."

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97492&st=0&p=2590234&#entry2590234 (i.e. 2nd post in this thread)

kthxbai.
[/quote]

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97492&view=findpost&p=2590335
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97492&view=findpost&p=2590622

kthxbai :rolleyes:

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[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1295920723' post='2597587']
This is why no one really bothers to argue with the idiot anymore.
[/quote]

So your just going to go with straight up name calling now?

And you wonder why I stop responding on a point by point basis.

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[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1295929729' post='2598238']
GOD has in fact been getting serious flak from our allies lately. Not over going to war with NpO, but because we had been trying to [i]prevent[/i] war with NpO. I was, personally, unaware of this at the time or else I would be having a serious I-told-you-so moment with Xiph right now over the way we've been getting treated by Polar and her allies.

I hope I've cleared things up for you.
[/quote]

personally i have a healthy respect for god. idk what anyone else thinks. :ph34r:

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[quote name='Audran' timestamp='1295930388' post='2598326']
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97492&view=findpost&p=2590335
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97492&view=findpost&p=2590622

kthxbai :rolleyes:
[/quote]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

how do those dispute anything i stated? i stated that it would be quite easy to interpret that Xiph helped set up Polaris in order to war against Polaris. where did you exactly dispute anything? oh wait, you really didn't. the first link actually further confirms that Xiph in fact helped establish the set up against Dajobo. One could say his "I had personal doubts as to the logs authenticity" is just some throwaway line kind of like Dajobo's "i was just lolling with you" or Dajobo's "I do not condone spying"... that line is just some attempt to cover up the fact that he was actively plotting against an ally of Ragnarok. (again i am just stating how all of this can be [b]interpreted[/b] to prove a point. i honestly don't care whether Xiph had any malicious intent or not as i am not allied to Xiph, nor would i ever be if i can possibly help it)

as for the second link- well, what exactly did Dajobo do towards VE prior to this incident? from what i know, absolutely nothing. so, Xiph was friendly before hand and then all of a sudden (kind of out of nowhere just like with Dajobo) became unfriendly towards Polaris. i mean, again it is just like Dajobo all of a sudden, out of nowhere, for no reason whatsoever, establishing a spy ring to spy on VE...

so yeah, using ya'lls very loose and utterly stupidly ridiculous interpreting skills, i can easily interpret it to Xiph maliciously manufacturing a CB in order to war against Polaris- who is an ally of Ragnarok. (same holds true with Impero though far less is needed in terms of actual interpretation as Impero did set out to manufacture a CB against Polaris hence the lack of diplomacy)

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[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1296013833' post='2601742']
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

how do those dispute anything i stated? i stated that it would be quite easy to interpret that Xiph helped set up Polaris in order to war against Polaris. where did you exactly dispute anything? oh wait, you really didn't. the first link actually further confirms that Xiph in fact helped establish the set up against Dajobo. One could say his "I had personal doubts as to the logs authenticity" is just some throwaway line kind of like Dajobo's "i was just lolling with you" or Dajobo's "I do not condone spying"... that line is just some attempt to cover up the fact that he was actively plotting against an ally of Ragnarok. (again i am just stating how all of this can be [b]interpreted[/b] to prove a point. i honestly don't care whether Xiph had any malicious intent or not as i am not allied to Xiph, nor would i ever be if i can possibly help it)[/quote]

It seems you just don't have the comprehension or communicative skills necessary to make a coherent argument. Maybe English isn't your first language? I don't know. As Xiph said, he suggested screenshots be offered to Dajobo to confirm whether or not Polar was serious about spying. We could've just rolled them off the initial logs if we had wanted to.

[quote]as for the second link- well, what exactly did Dajobo do towards VE prior to this incident? from what i know, absolutely nothing. so, Xiph was friendly before hand and then all of a sudden (kind of out of nowhere just like with Dajobo) became unfriendly towards Polaris. i mean, again it is just like Dajobo all of a sudden, out of nowhere, for no reason whatsoever, establishing a spy ring to spy on VE... [/quote]

What does this at all have to do with the second link? How can you compare Xiph saving NpO's bacon multiple times to Dajobo and VE prior to this incident?

[quote]so yeah, using ya'lls very loose and utterly stupidly ridiculous interpreting skills, i can easily interpret it to Xiph maliciously manufacturing a CB in order to war against Polaris- who is an ally of Ragnarok. (same holds true with Impero though far less is needed in terms of actual interpretation as Impero did set out to manufacture a CB against Polaris hence the lack of diplomacy)
[/quote]

U mad? :smug:

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[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1295925774' post='2597780']
Once again, your argument is "Dajobo can't have wanted to spy on VE because he said so!" I, if you bothered to notice, never said anything about what Dajobo did or didn't intend to do. I am simply pointing out a simple fallacy to a single argument that you have repeated endlessly. When I look at the Dajobo-Lennox logs I see what looks to me like Dajobo setting up a spy while using doublespeak to maintain official deniability. When you look at them you see Dajobo joking around and making friendly suggestions. The interpretation simply depends on how much you trust Dajobo's integrity. Given that he's high gov in Polar, I trust him about as far as I can throw him.[/quote]
This is pretty much how I see things as well. Except, of course, having known Dajobo for almost 4 years in a much more intimate capacity than you or anyone on your side, I trust his word implicitly at this point. I can still understand why someone who didn't know Dajobo or Lennox would read the conversation a different way, as those on your side have done in all threads on the topic. If you're not willing to budge on the impression of Dajobo you've created based on your disdain for my alliance, and I'm not willing to budge on my impression of Dajobo based on four years and hundreds if not thousands of hours of interactions, then we've obviously reached an impasse. Assuming the ultimate goal is reconciling both of our "truths" as we each see them, someone's going to have give a little ground at some point.

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[quote name='Audran' timestamp='1296016529' post='2601907']
It seems you just don't have the comprehension or communicative skills necessary to make a coherent argument. Maybe English isn't your first language? I don't know. As Xiph said, he suggested screenshots be offered to Dajobo to confirm whether or not Polar was serious about spying. We could've just rolled them off the initial logs if we had wanted to.
[/quote]

i doubt the last sentence but his point is that if youre making one line in a list of logs from our side to mean nothing because you WANT to believe dajobo had malicious intent then we could easily ignore the one line from xiph to make him seem like he had malicious intent as well

its really not hard to understand where hes coming from on this. i suppose with all the bias its hard to think straight

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[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1296013833' post='2601742']
how do those dispute anything i stated? i stated that it would be quite easy to interpret that Xiph helped set up Polaris in order to war against Polaris. where did you exactly dispute anything? oh wait, you really didn't. the first link actually further confirms that Xiph in fact helped establish the set up against Dajobo. [/quote]

Sure, it can be interpreted that way, but anyone dense enough to interpret it that way needs to work on their reading comprehension. After all the stuff we've been through lately for Polar, them suddenly being rolled was on our very last list of things we wanted to happen.

[quote name='Audran' timestamp='1296016529' post='2601907'] I don't know. As Xiph said, he suggested screenshots be offered to Dajobo to confirm whether or not Polar was serious about spying.
[/quote]

I don't understand why this is still being talked about, and especially why a VE member phrased it like that, lol. Again, Xiph didnt tell them to offer up screenshots of anything, not one single damned thing. He said screenshot the whois. He said ask Lennox to screenshot the conversation realtime because it sounded like bull. At not one single point in time did he tell Impero, or suggest to him in any way to set up Polar, even the people involved have said this multiple times in this very thread.

[quote name='Penguin' timestamp='1296020376' post='2602135']
This is pretty much how I see things as well. Except, of course, having known Dajobo for almost 4 years in a much more intimate capacity than you or anyone on your side, I trust his word implicitly at this point. I can still understand why someone who didn't know Dajobo or Lennox would read the conversation a different way, as those on your side have done in all threads on the topic. If you're not willing to budge on the impression of Dajobo you've created based on your disdain for my alliance, and I'm not willing to budge on my impression of Dajobo based on four years and hundreds if not thousands of hours of interactions, then we've obviously reached an impasse. Assuming the ultimate goal is reconciling both of our "truths" as we each see them, someone's going to have give a little ground at some point.
[/quote]

Penguin please don't generalize, you'd be surprised how many on our side are peeved we're fighting because some knucklehead made some other knucklehead say the exact wrong thing, that couldn't be passed up on as a CB. I don't think Daj has malicious intent. I think he got suckered into it, and what he said put him in a corner he couldn't get out of.

[quote][ 17:52:42 ] (Impero[VE]) then, he did, and has been giving them screen shots of our battalions and !@#$
[ 17:52:47 ] (Impero[VE]) until he realized he likes it here
[ 17:53:01 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) I say this very disillusioned with NpO lately: ask for screenshots
[ 17:53:22 ] (Impero[VE]) of the logs?
[ 17:53:25 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) yes
[ 17:53:34 ] (Xiphosis[GOD]) or get Dajabo to bring it up and screenshot the convo real-time[/quote]

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[quote name='Audran' timestamp='1296016529' post='2601907']
It seems you just don't have the comprehension or communicative skills necessary to make a coherent argument. Maybe English isn't your first language? I don't know. As Xiph said, he suggested screenshots be offered to Dajobo to confirm whether or not Polar was serious about spying. We could've just rolled them off the initial logs if we had wanted to.[/quote]

right, can't really refute my argument so make an ad hominem... and as Dajobo said "i don't condone spying". again, it could easily be interpreted as some throwaway statement much like you guys continue to state that Dajobo saying "i don't condone spying" and "i am only lolling with you" are throwaway lines. how about you actually try to refute my argument instead of spouting the same !@#$ over and over again. or going for ad hominems. if you can't refute my argument then say so or stop posting as if you won anything.



[quote]What does this at all have to do with the second link? How can you compare Xiph saving NpO's bacon multiple times to Dajobo and VE prior to this incident?[/quote]

simple- according to you, since Xiph saved Polaris so many times before, he could not possibly be out for Polar blood. Well, Dajobo did absolutely nothing to VE prior to this, in fact none of Polaris has (from what i can tell by Xiph's posts in other threads, it was GOD's allies looking for Polar blood, not Polaris looking for VE blood.) so why exactly would he begin out of nowhere? if Polaris can supposedly come from nowhere to "spy" on VE, then it is just as likely that Xiph, tired of "saving" Polaris's ass, decides to just set them up to maybe smack them into the "humility" that Xiph thinks they should have.



[quote]U mad? :smug:
[/quote]

no. just tired of reading the same gibberish and dribble that spews forth from those holes you call a mind and mouth. maybe if you actually stopped towing the party line and read what i post, you may realize that using the same stupid ass party line is not refuting my argument in the least. and the only thing you are doing is making yourself look stupid and as if you know nothing more than what you are spoonfed from others. you have no mind outside the collective hive mind and no actual thought of your own. please, be like Typo at try to make yourself look better by posting some inane "oh, until you see i am fully right, i won't respond to you anymore. it does not matter if my argument makes no sense, has been thrashed upteen million times, and i look utterly ridiculous continuously spouting the party line over and over. I AM STILL RIGHT!!!" and stop responding to me.

[quote name='Midkn1ght' timestamp='1296035584' post='2602503']
Sure, it can be interpreted that way, but anyone dense enough to interpret it that way needs to work on their reading comprehension. After all the stuff we've been through lately for Polar, them suddenly being rolled was on our very last list of things we wanted to happen.[/quote]

yay another party line toter. man, ya'll like cockroaches. anyone dense enough to ignore Dajobo stating "i do not condone spying" and "i am just lolling with you" needs to work on their reading comprehension. :o look i can do it too, which has been my entire point all along. ya'll even more friggin stupid than i thought.



[quote]I don't understand why this is still being talked about, and especially why a VE member phrased it like that, lol. Again, Xiph didnt tell them to offer up screenshots of anything, not one single damned thing. He said screenshot the whois. He said ask Lennox to screenshot the conversation realtime because it sounded like bull. At not one single point in time did he tell Impero, or suggest to him in any way to set up Polar, even the people involved have said this multiple times in this very thread.[/quote]

wait, are you seriously that stupid? "Okay, I have to confess to being pretty pissed off to see R_V and others try and tar VE/Impero for the screenshot stuff for one simple reason – they did it because I asked them to. Oh god Xiph set up NpO!" From Xiph's own mouth on the first page, second post. seriously, try harder. that is beyond the "screenshot the whois" since that would not be "setting up NpO". but having Lennox give screenshots to Dajobo would be.


[quote]Penguin please don't generalize, you'd be surprised how many on our side are peeved we're fighting because some knucklehead made some other knucklehead say the exact wrong thing, that couldn't be passed up on as a CB. I don't think Daj has malicious intent. I think he got suckered into it, and what he said put him in a corner he couldn't get out of.
[/quote]

well i am sure had diplomacy been attempted, it could very well have not gone to war. so if your side is peeved, be peeved at VE for putting you in this position by not even attempting diplomacy in the least.

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[ 17:52:42 ] (Impero[VE]) then, he did, and has been giving them screen shots of our battalions and !@#$
[ 17:52:47 ] (Impero[VE]) until he realized he likes it here


I will simply point out that what Impero said to Xiphosis was a complete and total lie. At the time that their conversation took place, Lennox had not had access to, nor had he passed on, any "screen shots of our battalions and !@#$". Also, at the time Imp and Xiph spoke, Lennox had not had any opportunity to have "realized he likes it here". The fact of the matter is that Lennox set up Daj in the [b]very first conversation he had with Imp, which was before he even applied to VE.[/b]

I realize that this won't mean much to anyone, but I find it deeply ironic that Imp found it necessary to lie to Xiph about what was going on. Did he think that actually stating the truth would cause Xiph to decline support for Imp's desire to roll Polar?

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