An OOC discussion about Jamahiriya

[Schad]

I really don't care how people choose to represent themselves in game, and the only IC/OOC line with respect to alliance conduct that shouldn't be crossed is the use of the game as a means to advance some sort of unsavory OOC action. Role-playing a communist is fine; role-playing a communist while actually [i]being[/i] a communist outside the game is fine; however, using your presence in-game to recruit prospective members of your putsch against the capitalist swine is decidedly less okay.

As I'm sure that Jamahiriya intends nothing even remotely analogous to that, they're fine as far as I'm concerned.

[Holy Ruler]

Allahu Akbar. Go Jama. That's all. Thank you.

[Uralica]

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1291748337' post='2533075']
Presumably one must be a professed Christian to belong to the CCC. (Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.)[/quote]

Actually, one simply needs to have their in-game religion set to Christianity. I remember when Lady Athena's "most successful" alliance, Macedonia, disbanded, and since their embassy at CCC literally became their HQ after Ionizer DDoSed their forums, there was one member that actually joined CCC after the alliance disbanded who wasn't Christian.

Plus of course, there's the fact that Chancellor Wes recently [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95340&view=findpost&p=2530157"]said[/url] that all non-Christian members of DAAN were more than welcome to join them after DAAN merged into CCC

Most CCCers [i]are[/i] actually RL Christians though.

[Kzoppistan]

Anything is allowable. This is just fantasy, after all.

[Sal Paradise]

[quote name='Schad' timestamp='1291749219' post='2533086']
I really don't care how people choose to represent themselves in game, and the only IC/OOC line with respect to alliance conduct that shouldn't be crossed is the use of the game as a means to advance some sort of unsavory OOC action. Role-playing a communist is fine; role-playing a communist while actually [i]being[/i] a communist outside the game is fine; however,[b] using your presence in-game to recruit prospective members of your putsch against the capitalist swine is decidedly less okay.[/b][/quote]

Why? Something special about this game I've been missing?

[Hereno]

[quote name='Aurion' timestamp='1291740518' post='2532994']
Outside of getting the impression their founder is a overly stubborn fool, I can't really say I have anything against them. OOC-based alliances are a large part of the fabric of CN, and getting on Jamahiriya solely on that basis would be pretty hypocritical by most everyone.

[b]Not gonna touch the Israel/Palestine argument.[/b]
[/quote]

^ This man knows what's up.

I agree with all of it, but the bold part in-particular.

[The MVP]

Life's too short to worry about such things. Just move on.

[xoindotnler]

[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1291752152' post='2533122']
Life's too short to worry about such things. Just move on.
[/quote]
But it's so fun to make problems about nothing! And more interesting that government changes to.

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='Sal Paradise' timestamp='1291750355' post='2533105']
Why? Something special about this game I've been missing?
[/quote]
While I understand that your signature is an attempt at parody, you have unwittingly made the most correct set of statements in your history.

[GulagArchipelago]

[quote name='Uralica' timestamp='1291749432' post='2533090']
Actually, one simply needs to have their in-game religion set to Christianity. I remember when Lady Athena's "most successful" alliance, Macedonia, disbanded, and since their embassy at CCC literally became their HQ after Ionizer DDoSed their forums, there was one member that actually joined CCC after the alliance disbanded who wasn't Christian.

Plus of course, there's the fact that Chancellor Wes recently [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95340&view=findpost&p=2530157"]said[/url] that all non-Christian members of DAAN were more than welcome to join them after DAAN merged into CCC

Most CCCers [i]are[/i] actually RL Christians though.
[/quote]
Correct, there were Jews and Muslims in CCC due to lack of other faith based AAs.

I mean...JAMA hasn't gone Allahu Akbar, Death to the Infidels at all during it's DOE. It never stressed the use of violence by terrorist groups such as HAMAS or Hezbollah. It never formally denounced other AAs and declared a jihad against em. There's nothin wrong with JAMA. If they believe that Palestinians should have an equal right to the Middle East land, then it is a legitimate claim (as is a claim by an Israeli for equal rights).

[oOoMidooOo]

[quote]This is one part of Isreali history that I am no expert on What would some one say to the argument that the Palestinians only have that land from taking it as well, or that Jews lived in the territory long before Muslims (AKA biblical times)? If some one could PM me the knowledge that would be great.[/quote]

erghh...do you really want to go into this, that way, USA for instance red indians lived before, so u saying after hundred of years red indians can come and taake USA back??

Secondly Jamahyria has every right to exist and its even based on peace which is the true islamic faith.

[Heft]

I refuse to be offended by an internet forum.

And if you all insist on sharing your opinions about Israel or whatever, then at least take it off the OWF, thankyouverymuch.

[2burnt2eat]

If an alliance is offensive or controversial, so be it. Sure, they can exist, but they shouldn't be surprised if they find themselves in a massive beatdown.

As for the rest in this thread such as likening Israel to foreign invaders, or attributing Israel's existence to America, has up to now been presently quite laughable. If only my sense of humor hadn't been worn out by the outspoken stupid long ago...

[greenacres]

They're about as inflamatory an alliance as NoR is, or CCC is, or really any alliance that has a centralized theme that is based around some sort of OOC influence. But, this is a game, and yeah, big scary muslims etc. etc., but this is a game, and people are allowed and actually encouraged to play a role, to play a role in this roleplaying nation simulation game, and to stay in character while they play that role in this roleplaying nation simulation game. If you cannot separate your own personal views/biases/hatreds/whatever that you may have about an OOC subject, from those people who are merely playing the role in a roleplaying game, then perhaps you need to step away from the keyboard and remind yourself that most everyone here is actually fairly decent. Just because they may play the role of an !@#$%^&, or a muslim, or a german, or an ewok, or anything, doesn't mean that's who they are behind the character.

Now, I'm not the best person to have said any of that, but you get the idea. Roles are being played, and those roles may, surprisingly, not be based upon the person playing the role.

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1291703441' post='2532706']
The Jewish extremists happen to have the backing of a powerful nation, itself receiving billions upon billions each year to carry out its acts from the most powerful country in the world.
[/quote]

Yeah, because Muslim terrorists clearly do not get any funding from established nations.

That being said, who cares? Honestly, it's an internet game it's not like this Cybernations alliance actively participates in the murder of civilians. Grow up.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Mr Damsky

[crushtania]

From a game ToS perspective, JAMA is well within their right to create an alliance based on the Muslim faith, or at least their interpretation of it. It's folly to debate their representation of a community and debate whether their politics or methods of political agency are ethical - and its equally so to debate whether their opponents are performing morally equivalent acts. Completely irrelevant.

Within the game, if water-based mammals have an aversion to mushroom-based lifeforms, they can throw their diplomats out of embassies and hate on them as much as they like.

Like it or not, CN as a game has no moral prescription to it - DoWs don't need to have rational, logical or even pragmatic [i]casus belli[/i] backing them up. Likewise with the formation and function of alliances.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Crushtania

[New Frontier]

Can I be King Jew of the WBSS?

[Kevin McDonald]

I've enjoyed reading the comments in this thread. I have also, I should note, been persuaded to realize that bringing my dislike of the original JAMA over to this re-incarnation is as of yet unjustified. Hopefully this remains the case.

MvP, I appreciate your response as well. The only one I will mention here is the question about not calling out Lennox for his Osama bin Laden avatar. I most certainly would do this if Lennox was to found an alliance that set out to be anti-Israel, anti-American, or anything else Osama bin Laden is associated with. I have not called him out on it because he has done no such thing. This is similar to how I have not called you out for any of your various avatars until you created this alliance. In regards to everything else you mentioned, we will certainly always see differently on those subjects, so no more time needs to be spent arguing it.

I thank all for their participation, and to those who wish to continue debate, please do so... I have got what I needed.

[Chief Savage Man]

I don't dislike this new Jamahiriya because of its ideology or its theme, I dislike it because of its leader. I don't have an opinion either way on the Palestine issue (both sides need to get over themselves imo). My problem with it is MvP himself (mostly because he banned me from the wiki for no good reason). The point is: don't hate on this alliance because it's an Islamist-themed alliance when there's plenty of better IC reasons to not like it.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Chief Savage Man

[Voytek]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' timestamp='1291771365' post='2533401']MvP, I appreciate your response as well. The only one I will mention here is the question about not calling out Lennox for his Osama bin Laden avatar. I most certainly would do this if Lennox was to found an alliance that set out to be anti-Israel, anti-American, or anything else Osama bin Laden is associated with. I have not called him out on it because he has done no such thing. This is similar to how I have not called you out for any of your various avatars until you created this alliance. In regards to everything else you mentioned, we will certainly always see differently on those subjects, so no more time needs to be spent arguing it.[/quote]
oh gosh you're so intellectually honest in your harassment of people who disagree with your bad country and your dumb ideals

Edited December 8, 2010 by Voytek

[bigwoody]

They can RP whoever the hell they want as an alliance.

Has anyone ever had a crusades avatar? Going to criticize them too?

If you don't like them that much, try and roll them IC. Might make things interesting, maybe.

[Dochartaigh]

This to me seems like the same argument between Nazi images and Communist images. People flying a Swastika or posting Hitler's pic is evil and should be banished from CN. those flying the Hammer and Sickle or posting Stalin's pic or Mao Tse Tung and so on are just fine despite the fact that Stalin/Mao Tse Tung killed far more people during their purges than Hitler.

frankly, it is a game. if someone wants to RP as some Muslim or Israeli extremists so what. it does not mean that their OOC selves feel this way, just that in game they want to do something to spice this place up. i see no one crying over NNK despite their use of (albiet parody images) the leader of North Korea.

[Cobalt]

Hey, lets bring a complicated, emotional, heated topic into CN... that's what really we really need.

Seriously though, JAMA has every right to exist - what they don't have (and no alliance does) is the right for their leadership to claim their personal views do not represent those of their alliance, and that's what we're looking at here. That little struggle is further complicated by the OOC issue it is being connected to; the Arab/Israeli conflict.

Like it or not that Conflict has major religious tie-ins. On one side you have the Nation of Israel, which isn't quite a theocracy but is most certainly a Jewish state - which is in conflict with the countries that surround it - most of whom have incorporated Islam into their governments to the extent that sharia law comprises at least part of their legal system if not nearly the whole thing. It is not a big stretch to go from Arab Israel, to Islam/Judaisism, even if its not correct.

Throw in a little hostile anti-israel speak from a triumvirate, and the assumptions get even weaker.

JAMA as an Islamic alliance has nothing wrong with it. JAMA as an Islamic alliance with leaders who subscribe to extremist viewpoints? Yeah... you're getting questionable there.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Tungsten

[Batallion]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1291822375' post='2533916']
This to me seems like the same argument between Nazi images and Communist images. People flying a Swastika or posting Hitler's pic is evil and should be banished from CN. those flying the Hammer and Sickle or posting Stalin's pic or Mao Tse Tung and so on are just fine despite the fact that Stalin/Mao Tse Tung killed far more people during their purges than Hitler.

frankly, it is a game. if someone wants to RP as some Muslim or Israeli extremists so what. it does not mean that their OOC selves feel this way, just that in game they want to do something to spice this place up. i see no one crying over NNK despite their use of (albiet parody images) the leader of North Korea.
[/quote]

The problem about Hitler/Nazism is that it's associated to total racism of every race other than Germans (specifically blonde hair blue eyed Germans). It's not about how much death Hitler/Nazism caused as much as it is of the racism.

[Schad]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1291822375' post='2533916']
This to me seems like the same argument between Nazi images and Communist images. People flying a Swastika or posting Hitler's pic is evil and should be banished from CN. those flying the Hammer and Sickle or posting Stalin's pic or Mao Tse Tung and so on are just fine despite the fact that Stalin/Mao Tse Tung killed far more people during their purges than Hitler.
[/quote]

The issue there was that the Nazi imagery brought in real-life neo-Nazis (or at least idiots who fantasized about being neo-Nazis) in Stand or Die. The same can't really be said about the commies.