An OOC discussion about Jamahiriya

[Hereno]

[quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1293038000' post='2550113']
And maybe if you'd show exactly [b]where[/b] Bordiga is closed to hearing dissenting opinions, rather than resorting to those ad hominems we'd give you a bit more than a snarky comment. It's a two way street.

I for one don't think that a person displaying their political/religious/personal convictions in their avatar is at all a display of how open to dissenting opinions are, unless that avatar directly says something like "I don't care what you think". Stamping on a national flag is a well demonstrated way to show your disapproval for that nation, be it its policies [b]or[/b] the very foundation of the nation itself. Both of these are legitimate political positions to take, with regard to any nation.

Can you dislike someone for these convictions? Sure.
But don't expect others to take you seriously if you're not willing to pay at least lip service to convention and give a logical post a logical answer.
[/quote]

If you read his post, and can honestly say that even by concentrating on the parts I pointed out (via bolding) and avatar you have no idea what I'm talking about, then no amount of explanation is going to help you. I also really don't care if either of you take me seriously, seeing as the feeling wouldn't be mutual. His post wasn't worth lip service. Neither are yours, honestly, I'm just really bored.

Feel free to respond to me saying "oh look see how unopen you are". After all, I know that you know damn well that any position that one-sided on this issue (of all issues) is bound to be overlooking essential details and cherry-picking facts.

[Hereno]

[quote name='Bordiga' timestamp='1293038195' post='2550116']
So basically, you reply with character assassinations and once again ignore the actual argument at hand.

You presume that because you highlighted certain items in my post I am discredited but I am quite confused as to why that is. I am merely turning around the argument offered in the OP. While obviously I do not support attacking people who may or may not be Islamophobes in their real lives, I'm merely pointing out that someone being a RL Islamophobe would appear, at least to me, to be a much better reason to attack someone in-game than simply because an alliance adheres to a Islamic theme. Likewise, I don't see how one can be opposed to "recruiting" being conducted by extremists unless people plan to place large bans on all manner of activity related to the game. [b]And finally I merely pointed out the hypocrisy of those who openly display images referring to Real Life politics when attacking those who display others, despite neither having any greater claim to being more justifiable. [/b]

Obviously, I have my own opinions. I support the right for people to be Islamic against those who do not, I am not for trying to limit political interaction around this game, and I oppose western government's agenda in the Middle East. Unless this is an interrogation of my political views, I don't really see how trying to lampoon me proves anything.



Like I said before, if you do not wish to actually argue on the topic but would prefer to simply whinge and complain about my audacity, I suggest you find another forum. Otherwise, you are really wasting space in this thread. Your rant about me being a communist is particularly sickening. I could easily have not even mentioned that in terms of the actual argument I was making.
[/quote]

I would also suggest to those who wear avatars depicting the leaders of RL states, militaries or varying political themes favouring their own [s]pro-western[/s] anti-western skewed world view not to throw stones in a glass house. Those doing so show their incredibly insulting ignorance when acting upset about images of people who are considered heroes by millions around the world, such as [s]Hassan Nasrallah.[/s] the state of Israel and the Israeli people.

If you honestly don't see a problem with attacking someone in-game for an OOC view, or with extremist organizations prone to violence using CyberNations as a recruiting ground, there is no help for you.

As for the part I bolded, I would suggest that you realize how much of a hypocrite you are being and take your own advice.

And finally, nobody is mad because Jamahiriya is an Islamic alliance. People are mad because the previous incarnation of Jamahiriya was an extremist alliance posting offensive images, and they don't want that to happen again. Maybe if you had actually read the thread before posting in it, you would understand that.

[Bordiga]

[quote]I would also suggest to those who wear avatars depicting the leaders of RL states, militaries or varying political themes favouring their own pro-western anti-western skewed world view not to throw stones in a glass house. Those doing so show their incredibly insulting ignorance when acting upset about images of people who are considered heroes by millions around the world, such as Hassan Nasrallah. the state of Israel and the Israeli people.[/quote]

Good to see you are getting a grip on this whole "debating" aspect of these forums.

As I am not the one posting to condemn forum members who wear such avatars, but merely posting to point out the hypocrisy of those that do (make condemnations, not wear avatars), I hardly see your point.

[quote]If you honestly don't see a problem with attacking someone in-game for an OOC view, or with extremist organizations prone to violence using CyberNations as a recruiting ground, there is no help for you.[/quote]

Where did I say that I support attacking someone who holds an OOC view? As I said it would just appear to me that Islamophobia, rather than an Islamic alliance, would seem to be more of a problem warranting concern. I do not support people attacking those of differing OOC views in CN. As for "extremist organizations prone to violence using CN as a recruiting ground," if you had read Schad's post that I was replying to, you would see that the discussion was related to "extremists" of many stripes and was in the context of the varying communist alliances in CN. Even so, I am not for CN members attacking in game those who support, for example, Hamas, and are able to defend that political position, as millions of people around the world do (similar to the US military in fact). And so even in this example of an "extremist organization prone to violence" I would not be for restrictions being placed on their activity by CN community members as you apparently are.

[quote]As for the part I bolded, I would suggest that you realize how much of a hypocrite you are being and take your own advice.[/quote]

I certainly will take my own advice and not attack someone just because they are displaying an image with RL political connotations, which I have not done yet. As I am annunciating as slowly and clearly as I can, I am simply pointing out that people should not take for granted that because they disagree with a certain image or idea that they are correct, as others, such as myself, have quite different ideas.

[quote]And finally, nobody is mad because Jamahiriya is an Islamic alliance. People are mad because the previous incarnation of Jamahiriya was an extremist alliance posting offensive images, and they don't want that to happen again. Maybe if you had actually read the thread before posting in it, you would understand that.[/quote]

I read the entire thread before posting the reply I did, which is after all why I referenced the reply specifically by Schad, a player that I know..

Given you have read the entire thread, you should be aware by now that Jamahiriyah is an Islamic alliance and that is its only defining aspect. Which is why I posted to say that the only opposition to it could be that of Islamophobia in reality.

Edited December 22, 2010 by Bordiga

[Teddyyo]

I hate the brown sphere.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Teddyyo