NPO Annoucement: 2nd Triannual Report of the 6th Year of Order

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Branimir' date='04 May 2010 - 12:54 AM' timestamp='1272948822' post='2286098']
So if the sum is astronomical enough, you can take out alliances for a year out of it.[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Yes, which is what Karma did to the NPO, and again to TOP. I do not believe that any alliance should be forced out of commission for a year's length. NPO not once ever demanded a sum of reparations that took that long to pay off.[/color]

[Ashoka the Great]

[quote name='Branimir' date='03 May 2010 - 10:35 PM' timestamp='1272940500' post='2285836']
You came, to change the standards of time. You didn't, as you are sheep, you do not have it in you to change or make anew, you are a reactionary, opportunistic grouping of what is, midgets in size.

Do not worry, what you couldn't do, or live up to, we will. As we are leaders, setters of standards and conduct. Shapers of time. And you are big collection of, what are individually, midgets in size.

The only ones that get any credit are the ex Voxians.[/quote]

When one of the Chief Bleaters of the New Pacific Order calls you a sheep, you know it must be true. Thank God I'm an ex-Voxian, else I'd be offended. (Branimir, if you think Vox acted out of anger, you show a level of understanding that is 100% expected. Most of the early Vox members were not motivated by anger, but by disgust.)

As to the rest, the New Pacific Order has promised much. But will you deliver? I'm sure you'll [i]tell[/i] everyone that you have.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Ashoka the Great

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Mansa Musa' date='04 May 2010 - 03:21 PM' timestamp='1272946890' post='2286048']
I think the reparations demanded of ONOS and the NPONOS Massacre still rank higher than anything that's happened as of recent. Mostly because the reparations of ONOS took what once was the strongest alliance on Maroon, a sanctioned alliance at that, and destroyed it permanently. I am aware that other sanctioned alliances have been destroyed in the past, but all have managed to come back in some way, shape or form. ONOS, on the other hand, went from being sanctioned to decimation. It's one thing to demand thousands of Tech and Financial Reparations from an alliance, but it was quite another for NPO to have demanded to give the control of the ONOS forum to the NPONOS Viceroy or else face further destruction. That was borderline illegal at the time, I'm sad that it wasn't outright against the rules to do such a thing as it is now.

So, please get off your high horse. You and the rest of you NPO Righteous posters. I bet you weren't even around for the NPONOS Incident, because I find it completely insane that you would make such remarks - you obviously can't have been around from that era. I've had too many friends put on PZI and EZI lists by NPO to ever even fathom the thought that anyone could do worse than what NPO did.

Do I hate NPO? No, this is a game, what's done is done. You can't change the past. Is NPO a successful alliance? Why yes, they were basically the victors of the game for years on end. They're making a comeback, and the fact that this thread celebrates the 6th Year of the Order is quite an achievement. For that, I congratulate you. But also, I would like to advise you guys to stick to the "Evil Empire" persona that was once adopted so vehemently by NPO posters of not-long-ago. It fit you guys better, no one played the villain as well as you did. So, stick to that. It's a lot more believable and certainly a lot more acknowledgeable of your position in the Cyberverse.
[/quote]
Hi. I was here for the ONOS war, check my nation age. Back then, espionage was still a valid CB, unlike now, apparently. They got what they deserved. You can argue against the validity of viceroys if you wish, but they were also acceptable back then. And ONOS was not permanently destroyed, they merged with DUAL to form CORE.

[NationRuler]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='03 May 2010 - 11:58 PM' timestamp='1272949077' post='2286107']
[color="#0000FF"]Yes, which is what Karma did to the NPO, and again to TOP. I do not believe that any alliance should be forced out of commission for a year's length. NPO not once ever demanded a sum of reparations that took that long to pay off.[/color]
[/quote]

Yeah, but it's ok to destroy an alliance forever apparently.

[quote name='WorldConqueror' date='04 May 2010 - 12:44 AM' timestamp='1272951833' post='2286150']
Hi. I was here for the ONOS war, check my nation age. Back then, espionage was still a valid CB, unlike now, apparently. They got what they deserved. You can argue against the validity of viceroys if you wish, but they were also acceptable back then. And ONOS was not permanently destroyed, they merged with DUAL to form CORE.
[/quote]

I can't believe I have to type this all again. For the millionth time.
[list]
[*]ONOS. NEVER. SPIED. Using google isn't spying, it's using Google.
[*]ONOS [b]was[/b] permanently destroyed. Any member who was REALLY an ONOS member went out with a bang and went elsewhere. ONOS was not going to allow itself to be ruled by a viceroy. Stirex (or whatever his name was) never was and never will be considered a Godfather of ONOS by anyone who knew ONOS.
[*]The number 6 alliance merging with DUAL to form CORE? You don't consider that being destroyed? What if NPO merged with TTK to form The Pacific Knights. I'd consider them destroyed.
[/list]

[TrotskysRevenge]

Thank you, Sir Paul, for another great Report. No one captures the Order quite like you. And I, too, wish to thank Penkala for all he is doing for the NPO. Keep it up!

But mostly, I want to thank each and every member of the NPO who has stayed through terms and helped pay reps, whether it be tech or money. I'm not going to lie; it has been tough. It isn't easy to stay motivated for an entire year when forced to essentially stay on the sidelines. There is only so much activity one can manufacture at home. But this past year has been a testament not just to the Order as an alliance, but to every single member. I couldn't ask for a better or more honorable community of which to be a part. You are the best in the cyberverse. o/

EDIT: I am not whining, just in case

[flak attack]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='03 May 2010 - 10:32 PM' timestamp='1272940351' post='2285827']
Accepting this paragraph requires that you accept the belief that C&G and Superfriends did not conspire with \m/ to lure TOP and IRON into one of the most destructive wars in history, and are not currently providing under the table support to keep the war going on - for well over three months now.

This has been a matter of some dispute.
[/quote]
You are just precious.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='NationRuler' date='04 May 2010 - 02:03 AM' timestamp='1272953002' post='2286165']
Yeah, but it's ok to destroy an alliance forever apparently.[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]There are too many alliances these days anyway. Quite frankly we could do with less. Mainly the ones with no flash or style. Alliances like your own, for example.[/color]

[Il Impero Romano]

You know, in reality Pacifica has been pretty cooperative and relatively good natured throughout this whole process despite what these kinds of arguments may lead one to believe, but I gotta wonder, what the hell are you guys gonna have to scream about once the terms are done? lol

Edited May 4, 2010 by Il Impero Romano

[Gizmo]

Triyun has always been an outspoken and wise representative for NPO and I have always enjoyed his visits to MHA. I hope his retirement doesn't mean he'll stop his occasional visits to MHA's forum in NPO's Q and A thread and the Cybernation forum for that matter. Good health in retirement Triyun, you served your alliance well!

o/ NPO
o/ Triyun

Edited May 4, 2010 by masterbake

[Letum]

[quote]
[*]Decommission of wonders. This is one of the most devastating in-game terms, seeing as it sets you back 30 days that can never ever be recovered. It is perhaps less damaging today now that many nations are maxed out on wonders, but it has still not been used.
[/quote]

The "setting back a month" rationale doesn't make any sense. A nation is "set back a month" by sending out 900 tech in reps; since it would need a month to recover that amount. It is also arguably set back many months if there are terms forbidding the purchase of wonders over an extended period of time (and if it is maxed out on the non-forbidden wonders). Hell, you can credibly claim that, in terms of opportunity cost, beating a nation that hasn't maxed out on wonders down to ZI "sets it back", since it might not have the economic ability to buy new wonders. In terms of economic rationale, all those are pretty equal. The reason wonder decommissioning is disliked more than alternatives is not because of its economic impact (since the alternatives have a similar impact), but because of its psychological one, because wonders are an otherwise indestructible asset.

[F15pilotX]

[quote name='Mansa Musa' date='03 May 2010 - 11:21 PM' timestamp='1272946890' post='2286048'][quote name='F15pilotX' date='03 May 2010 - 11:07 PM' timestamp='1272946044' post='2286019']
The fact that the two single largest tangible amounts of reparations to an alliance ever demanded, and the two most destructive wars in history have both been demanded/happened since NPO fell from the top spot.

Not going to argue here, but I found that amusing.
[/quote]I think the reparations demanded of ONOS and the NPONOS Massacre still rank higher than anything that's happened as of recent. Mostly because the reparations of ONOS took what once was the strongest alliance on Maroon, a sanctioned alliance at that, and destroyed it permanently. I am aware that other sanctioned alliances have been destroyed in the past, but all have managed to come back in some way, shape or form. ONOS, on the other hand, went from being sanctioned to decimation. It's one thing to demand thousands of Tech and Financial Reparations from an alliance, but it was quite another for NPO to have demanded to give the control of the ONOS forum to the NPONOS Viceroy or else face further destruction. That was borderline illegal at the time, I'm sad that it wasn't outright against the rules to do such a thing as it is now.[/quote]I specifically said "tangible" reparations so that people wouldn't respond to me with posts like yours; obviously that flew over your head. Obviously you're a tad bitter (just a tad ) over that, but since you want to be like that, I'll respond.

[quote name='Mansa Musa' date='03 May 2010 - 11:21 PM' timestamp='1272946890' post='2286048']So, please get off your high horse. You and the rest of you NPO Righteous posters. I bet you weren't even around for the NPONOS Incident, because I find it completely insane that you would make such remarks - you obviously can't have been around from that era.[/quote]Where is my righteous NPO "high horse"? I never even mentioned my opinion of my alliance, or its acts, in my post. My response was lighthearted in the first part, and I was simply pointing out a stupid comment in the last part.

As to your second snide comment, I have been around since November 2006, so thank you very much I was around for it; no need for the arrogant, condescending attitude. I actually hung out on the ONOS forums for a few months (this was before the war), which made your ignorant assumption pretty funny to me, personally. Again, I made the remarks specifically about one area, because I found it ironic. That you wanted to bring up other issues was entirely up to you, and I neither asked nor wanted you to.

[quote name='Mansa Musa' date='03 May 2010 - 11:21 PM' timestamp='1272946890' post='2286048']Do I hate NPO? No, this is a game, what's done is done. You can't change the past. Is NPO a successful alliance? Why yes, they were basically the victors of the game for years on end. They're making a comeback, and the fact that this thread celebrates the 6th Year of the Order is quite an achievement. For that, I congratulate you. But also, I would like to advise you guys to stick to the "Evil Empire" persona that was once adopted so vehemently by NPO posters of not-long-ago. It fit you guys better, no one played the villain as well as you did. So, stick to that. It's a lot more believable and certainly a lot more acknowledgeable of your position in the Cyberverse.[/quote]For as much as you complain(ed) about the NPO being evil and bad, you sure do seem to have loved it when we played the part. Hey, at least you can complain about us not acting our "part" soon - that'll give you something more current to blame us for


[quote name='Shodemofi' date='03 May 2010 - 11:44 PM' timestamp='1272948251' post='2286086']You know, that largest reparations bit is a nice talking point, but is rather misleading. With the hyperinflation of money and tech as time goes on in the Cyberverse, it's only natural that nominal values of reparations would grow, however that doesn't mean that reparations are any more harsh than they were before. If you had a number based on percentage of tech owned, that would mean more.[/quote]Funny you mention that, because we actually had to pay more than 100% of the tech we had at the signing of terms in reparations. The hyperinflation argument only goes so far - then reality sets in.

[quote name='Shodemofi' date='03 May 2010 - 11:44 PM' timestamp='1272948251' post='2286086']And lastly, reparations aren't just about money, NPO implemented numerous other terms that alliances would have rather paid tens of thousands of technology than adhere to.[/quote]And I do believe you were part of NPO Military Command during a very long stretch of that time. Funny how things change

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' date='04 May 2010 - 01:28 AM' timestamp='1272954472' post='2286186']
You know, in reality Pacifica has been pretty cooperative and relatively good natured throughout this whole process despite what these kinds of arguments may lead one to believe, but I gotta wonder, what the hell are you guys gonna have to scream about once the terms are done? lol[/quote]Hopefully nothing.

Edited May 4, 2010 by F15pilotX

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Letum' date='04 May 2010 - 02:31 AM' timestamp='1272954689' post='2286192']
The "setting back a month" rationale doesn't make any sense. A nation is "set back a month" by sending out 900 tech in reps; since it would need a month to recover that amount. It is also arguably set back many months if there are terms forbidding the purchase of wonders over an extended period of time (and if it is maxed out on the non-forbidden wonders). Hell, you can credibly claim that, in terms of opportunity cost, beating a nation that hasn't maxed out on wonders down to ZI "sets it back", since it might not have the economic ability to buy new wonders. In terms of economic rationale, all those are pretty equal. The reason wonder decommissioning is disliked more than alternatives is not because of its economic impact (since the alternatives have a similar impact), but because of its psychological one, because wonders are an otherwise indestructible asset.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]So, what you're telling me is that Karma has done one of the same things that they preached would never be done again. They have stunted national growth. They've merely found a way to do so that they can claim isn't something NPO did. Does their hypocrisy know no bounds?[/color]

[Starfox101]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='04 May 2010 - 03:32 AM' timestamp='1272940351' post='2285827']
Accepting this paragraph requires that you accept the belief that C&G and Superfriends did not conspire with \m/ to lure TOP and IRON into one of the most destructive wars in history, and are not currently providing under the table support to keep the war going on - for well over three months now.

This has been a matter of some dispute.
[/quote]
Wow, you're incredibly paranoid and foolish. First off, nobody forced TOP to attack, and nobody lured TOP in. TOP made the decision by themselves. To attempt to pin that on MK and Co is an incredibly ignorant attempt at propaganda. Next, MK and \m/ have a terrible relationship. They troll us and such, and we respond with a cold indifference. There was no plot and anyone with a working knowledge of our relationship knows it.

[quote name='Haflinger' date='04 May 2010 - 05:32 AM' timestamp='1272947552' post='2286072']
If you think the alliances currently named GOONS and \m/ have anything to do with their namesakes disbanded after the Unjust War other than name... well, lol.

GOONS technically doesn't have the same name, as well. In fact, the last time I checked, they were at war with a nation from Neutral Shoving. It's been a while though, maybe they made peace.
[/quote]
Oh hey, another stupid statement. You don't know anything about the old \m/, and you know even less about this \m/. So please, don't try and make any statements pretending you have knowledge of how either alliance works, because you don't.

We don't even talk to you so how would you know?

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' date='04 May 2010 - 06:16 AM' timestamp='1272950194' post='2286129']
When one of the Chief Bleaters of the New Pacific Order calls you a sheep, you know it must be true. Thank God I'm an ex-Voxian, else I'd be offended. (Branimir, if you think Vox acted out of anger, you show a level of understanding that is 100% expected. Most of the early Vox members were not motivated by anger, but by disgust.)

As to the rest, the New Pacific Order has promised much. But will you deliver? I'm sure you'll [i]tell[/i] everyone that you have.
[/quote]
Revenge was certainly a big motivation. Accountability for their crimes, as well.

[quote name='TrotskysRevenge' date='04 May 2010 - 07:04 AM' timestamp='1272953025' post='2286166']


Thank you, Sir Paul, for another great Report. No one captures the Order quite like you. And I, too, wish to thank Penkala for all he is doing for the NPO. Keep it up!

But mostly, I want to thank each and every member of the NPO who has stayed through terms and helped pay reps, whether it be tech or money. I'm not going to lie; it has been tough. It isn't easy to stay motivated for an entire year when forced to essentially stay on the sidelines. There is only so much activity one can manufacture at home. But this past year has been a testament not just to the Order as an alliance, but to every single member. I couldn't ask for a better or more honorable community of which to be a part. You are the best in the cyberverse. o/

EDIT: I am not whining, just in case
[/quote]
Yeah, it is pretty tough to stand and watch, isn't it? Hope you feel bad about forcing all those players onto PZI and continuing those alliance wars for over 2 years.

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='03 May 2010 - 10:32 PM' timestamp='1272940351' post='2285827']
Accepting this paragraph requires that you accept the belief that C&G and Superfriends did not conspire with \m/ to lure TOP and IRON into one of the most destructive wars in history, and are not currently providing under the table support to keep the war going on - for well over three months now.

This has been a matter of some dispute.
[/quote]

I don't think it's really a matter of some dispute. It's a conspiracy theory for which I have seen no evidence. Even if you accept the fact that C&G and SuperFriends were out to get TOP from the start, that plan would hinge on TOP employing a preemptive attack, and nobody could have predicted such a harebrained attempt.

[quote name='Branimir' date='03 May 2010 - 10:35 PM' timestamp='1272940500' post='2285836']
We did as it was the time and its standards.

You came, to change the standards of time. You didn't, as you are sheep, you do not have it in you to change or make anew, you are a reactionary, opportunistic grouping of what is, midgets in size.

Do not worry, what you couldn't do, or live up to, we will. As we are leaders, setters of standards and conduct. Shapers of time. And you are big collection of, what are individually, midgets in size.[/quote]

So you're saying that when you committed these crimes, it was simply how things were at the time. You state that we have changed nothing. And yet these things are no longer the standard?

Oh, one other very important point I forgot last night:
[list]
[*]Suppression of debate. Look at us here, in this thread. Me, a government member of the SuperFriends, and all of you, the membership of the New Pacific Order, the downtrodden enemy under surrender terms. We are having a (mostly) civil argument, other than a few random insults you guys are throwing out. This would never ever have happened during the Pacifican Hegemony. Dissenters that didn't have Continuum to back them up (mainly looking at Gremlins here) were isolated and PZIed, or simply silenced by fear. Like it or not there is way more debate nowadays than under your reign, and that is probably the most important thing of all.
[/list]

[applesauce59]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='04 May 2010 - 06:28 AM' timestamp='1272972485' post='2286296']
I don't think it's really a matter of some dispute. It's a conspiracy theory for which I have seen no evidence. Even if you accept the fact that C&G and SuperFriends were out to get TOP from the start, that plan would hinge on TOP employing a preemptive attack, and nobody could have predicted such a harebrained attempt.



So you're saying that when you committed these crimes, it was simply how things were at the time. You state that we have changed nothing. And yet these things are no longer the standard?

Oh, one other very important point I forgot last night:
[list]
[*]Suppression of debate. Look at us here, in this thread. Me, a government member of the SuperFriends, and all of you, the membership of the New Pacific Order, the downtrodden enemy under surrender terms. We are having a (mostly) civil argument, other than a few random insults you guys are throwing out. This would never ever have happened during the Pacifican Hegemony. Dissenters that didn't have Continuum to back them up (mainly looking at Gremlins here) were isolated and PZIed, or simply silenced by fear. Like it or not there is way more debate nowadays than under your reign, and that is probably the most important thing of all.
[/list]
[/quote]

To be honest i think that's because we were just plain stronger than you. We didn't hold sanction alliances under reps we beat them down much further. I actual believe its the same reason you guys have not done cuberstoppings, your base of power is to weak for it. The Athens situation with the tech raid is a good example of a failed attempt.

Edited May 4, 2010 by applesauce59

[Penkala]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='03 May 2010 - 09:46 PM' timestamp='1272937568' post='2285725']
[color="#0000FF"]That was different. TORN is the alliance that initiated the war. NPO and its allies had a legitimate complaint with TORN. The Immortals really did not have to enter the war, and the were not crucial to its success either. They came in, however, and provided some relief until they were overwhelmed. You're comparing apples and oranges here Penky.[/color]
[/quote]

Except that TORN's NS wouldn't really have made a difference one way or another in that war, either. It's the same, really. 2 alliances leaving a war. You claimed that NPO has never talked crap if their allies did that. I said that they did -- with TORN (and those from the CoC). Why all the dancing? Can't you just admit that you're wrong and I'm right, Reb?

[quote]Fair enough, but as RV said, apples and oranges.[/quote]

"But we were really mad so it doesn't count!"

How do you know the allies of whatever-that-alliance-was-that-surrendered weren't really really pissed too? Is it that once Pacifica is mad she is immune to the rules of logic, and everything she does can no longer be compared to anything else (especially if using that comparison as a reason Pacifica is better than the "new hegemony")?

Edited May 4, 2010 by Penkala

[Corinan]

[quote name='Cortath' date='03 May 2010 - 10:57 PM' timestamp='1272941828' post='2285881']
I'd like to thank our newest propaganda officer for his fine work: Penkala. Keep it up man, you're doing us more good than this humble servant of Pacifica ever could.
[/quote]

Penkala is pretty good for that. I recently told him he was good for NSO PR as well.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='applesauce59' date='04 May 2010 - 08:12 AM' timestamp='1272975115' post='2286309']
To be honest i think that's because we were just plain stronger than you. We didn't hold sanction alliances under reps we beat them down much further. I actual believe its the same reason you guys have not done cuberstoppings, your base of power is to weak for it. The Athens situation with the tech raid is a good example of a failed attempt.
[/quote]

I wouldn't bring up Athens too much...reminds people of that nice little attack you pulled on GATO that used a CB so old that it was written on stone tablets.

I also wouldn't brag abut beating alliances into disbandment. The Karma coalition *could* have pounded NPO permanently into PM, but they took the knife from your throat (even as they set up a plan to keep your pockets empty for a very long time). If and when you ever turn the tables, never forget that.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='04 May 2010 - 07:28 AM' timestamp='1272972485' post='2286296']
I don't think it's really a matter of some dispute. It's a conspiracy theory for which I have seen no evidence. Even if you accept the fact that C&G and SuperFriends were out to get TOP from the start, that plan would hinge on TOP employing a preemptive attack, and nobody could have predicted such a harebrained attempt.
[/quote]
This thread isn't the appropriate place for this argument, there are plenty other threads where it's on topic. However, Archon has mentioned that the attack was leaked to him.

[Bob Janova]

Briefly regarding 'hyperinflation' and reparations, it is greatly overstated. Any nation with a daily income over $1.5m – around 4000 infra – can send full cash aid indefinitely, and that means they can fund tech reps through sellers within the alliance unless there are deliberately restrictive terms like those imposed on the Orders. The destructive effect of nuclear war means that the average and total NS of major alliances has not changed that much since nukes became commonplace (Unjust War or arguably BLEU War/noCB). Supergrievances members often bring up the reps given to MK and Athens in noCB as an 'injustice' but there was little inflation between September 2008 and July 2009 when they put those record terms on NPO, and the damage caused in Karma and Bipolar means that most alliances were smaller in April 2010 than at the same time last year.

Take a look at the [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=11169&view=findpost&p=878852]Sanction Race[/url] at the end of noCB/BLEU war. The sanction line was 21 points, 5th place 36 points. Today, sanction is 23½ points, and 5th place 34 points. I don't believe the score formula has changed since then, and with more nations then than now, the same score would actually be a slightly [i]higher[/i] score. I don't have NS stats back then to hand (UE?) but I do have them from February 2009 onwards (in the history of the treaty listings on my wiki page) – and in February 2009, you needed 7 million NS and 27 points for a sanction (compared to 6 million today) and 10 million NS/42 points for 5th place.

The conclusion is that [b]NS inflation is a myth[/b] when comparing terms within the last two years. The greatest time of NS inflation came in 2007 and possibly early 2008, when there were no major wars (apart from the Unjust War which fizzled before it did much damage) and many alliances learnt the benefits of back collection and tech dealing.

Edit: As far back as summer 2007, ODN had 46 nations at 3999 or more infra (132 today). GOONS had almost 150. Yes, the capacity for large alliances to make reps has increased, but only by a factor of 3 or so – far less than the inflation of the terms themselves.

What [i]has[/i] greatly increased is the infra level, warchest and capacity to make money of [i]individual large nations[/i]. But since they're still limited to the same old $3m, that doesn't justify an increase in the size of terms. You can clearly see they have outpaced inflation by the length of time it takes to pay them off; it's almost a year since NPO surrendered, and estimates of the time for payment of the reps imposed on TOP and IRON are in the six month bracket. Standard terms imposed in pre-Karma times (i.e. not those deliberately designed to be long term like GPA or GATO) were lifted in much less than that.

I guess that wasn't so brief after all.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Bob Janova

[Branimir]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='04 May 2010 - 01:28 PM' timestamp='1272972485' post='2286296']
So you're saying that when you committed these crimes, it was simply how things were at the time. You state that we have changed nothing. And yet these things are no longer the standard? [/quote]
2, 3 or even 4 years ago, things were different and everybody acted as such. Not just NPO. What was "crime" or not, was subject to different definition. For example, before spying was a CB universally accepted, now-- not so much.

For all your talk, [i]you[/i] changed nothing as you do not have it in you. You only "refreshed" rhetorics. Yet you keep yapping how you did. Amusing.
[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='04 May 2010 - 01:28 PM' timestamp='1272972485' post='2286296']Suppression of debate. [/quote]
Debates before were far more lively and fun then now. Your are stretching it thin.

We didn't held "shark weeks", go talk to neutral shoving, or mpol for his famous "one more post and I will dow you". I suppose both of those, are NPO's fault, right?

Good day.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Branimir

[NeCoHo]

[quote name='Penkala' date='04 May 2010 - 08:18 AM' timestamp='1272975478' post='2286312']
Except that TORN's NS wouldn't really have made a difference one way or another in that war, either. It's the same, really. 2 alliances leaving a war. You claimed that NPO has never talked crap if their allies did that. I said that they did -- with TORN (and those from the CoC). Why all the dancing? Can't you just admit that you're wrong and I'm right, Reb?



"But we were really mad so it doesn't count!"

How do you know the allies of whatever-that-alliance-was-that-surrendered weren't really really pissed too? Is it that once Pacifica is mad she is immune to the rules of logic, and everything she does can no longer be compared to anything else (especially if using that comparison as a reason Pacifica is better than the "new hegemony")?
[/quote]

see

[quote name='NeCoHo' date='03 May 2010 - 11:11 PM' timestamp='1272942643' post='2285908']
For the record, TORN surrendered, canceled their treaty with NPO, and then disregarded the cancellation clause at the urging of Archon. THEN Mary said that. They were not allies at the time. [i]The situation is completely different.[/i] To be honest, I don't see much point in arguing with you beyond this, since you are probably too thick-skulled to see the difference in the two situations, and that kool-aid must taste pretty good.
[/quote]


It's okay, you don't need reading comprehension in this Brave New World. I guess that change is for the better for people like Penkanla.

[IronSoldier820]

[quote name='F15pilotX']
I specifically said "tangible" reparations so that people wouldn't respond to me with posts like yours; obviously that flew over your head. Obviously you're a tad bitter (just a tad ) over that, but since you want to be like that, I'll respond.[/quote]
No, I saw your wording. I just chose to go straight to my argument rather than argue over which party is guilty of more intangible terms, because the line between "tangible reparations" and "intangible reparations" has been and will continue to be blurred. There will always be demands for reparations that people will deem impossible, unthinkable. The terminology of "tangible reparations" is ill-defined in Cyber Nations, because at the time, NPO Government was of the opinion that the terms they were offering ONOS were completely tangible.

[quote name='F15pilotX']Where is my righteous NPO "high horse"? I never even mentioned my opinion of my alliance, or its acts, in my post. My response was lighthearted in the first part, and I was simply pointing out a stupid comment in the last part.

As to your second snide comment, I have been around since November 2006, so thank you very much I was around for it; no need for the arrogant, condescending attitude. I actually hung out on the ONOS forums for a few months (this was before the war), which made your ignorant assumption pretty funny to me, personally. Again, I made the remarks specifically about one area, because I found it ironic. That you wanted to bring up other issues was entirely up to you, and I neither asked nor wanted you to.[/quote]
For one, the high horse was general comment to the World Police attitude held by several NPO Posters on this forum. Not just this thread. Also, I do not remember you posting on ONOS Forums, so forgive me not remembering your presence there.

Additionally, I made my remarks specifically about one area of history because I found it ironic in regards to what you were stating. And it's not just you, I'm aware of how well the NPO Propaganda Machine works. The entire "Is Karma really what you thought it would be" thing just grates on me because the continued argument that "you all are worse than we ever were" just gets to me.

[quote name='F15pilotX']For as much as you complain(ed) about the NPO being evil and bad, you sure do seem to have loved it when we played the part. Hey, at least you can complain about us not acting our "part" soon - that'll give you something more current to blame us for [/quote]
That was my attempt to keep the thread on track and still be posting in reference to the opening post. Also, you are putting words into my mouth - specifically that one 'loved'. I never loved NPO and I still don't, I really don't love any alliance in this game save for a few. The concession I made at the end of my post was based on the idea that I prefer the NPO didn't pretend they were the good guys and stick with the Evil Empire theme rather than the one that makes-believe that they're the All-Righteous World Police.

I'm sorry that my wording does not come off as optimal and clear, it's just difficult to stay on-topic and keep a post moderately congratulatory when engaged in an argument at the same time.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Mansa Musa

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Penkala' date='04 May 2010 - 08:18 AM' timestamp='1272975478' post='2286312']
Except that TORN's NS wouldn't really have made a difference one way or another in that war, either. It's the same, really. 2 alliances leaving a war. You claimed that NPO has never talked crap if their allies did that. I said that they did -- with TORN (and those from the CoC). Why all the dancing? Can't you just admit that you're wrong and I'm right, Reb?
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Except TORN initiated that war. The Immortals really had nothing to do with the last war, so they're leaving meant nothing. Sort of the reason people were peeved at Polar. They started the war, and then bailed on their allies. Same thing TORN did pretty much.[/color]

[Proxian Empire]

I will never trust the NPO. Nor should anyone else.