NPO Annoucement: 2nd Triannual Report of the 6th Year of Order

[Biazt]

[quote name='NationRuler' date='04 May 2010 - 11:31 PM' timestamp='1273030298' post='2287260']
I really should either stop posting here entirely, or explain in full detail all things I could possibly NOT be implying.

Guys. I'm not equating them. I'm just friends with none of them. Why do you all have to take connotations that are simply NOT THERE out of these posts?

I guess I am speaking to the OWF peanut gallery...
[/quote]

This is pretty funny considering that by virtue of being in CSN you are the peanut gallery.

[Sir Paul]

I'm busy preparing for rsoxbronco1's future police action against Pacifica, so I'm not going to quote the questions I'm answering.
-----
Q1: What was the proportion of tech/cash that the Order had to pay?

A1: Converting tech to cash at the standard rate, $20.5 billion, or 148% of the NPO's techworth, most of that in high-value technology. For comparison, you can chant Londo's name 3 times and ask him for the exact number, but I believe it was about 100% of their techworth, 14% of it in tech deals, with no sending restrictions despite the fact, according to their own wiki, [url=http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Athens]they declared war on us[/url].
-----
Q2: We are better because we never decom wonders.

A2: Actually, I would have gladly traded decom of some military wonders in exchange for dropping the 1k tech restrictions or shaving a few billion off of our terms.
-----
I'll answer more questions which are obsentenly about my report tomorrow if I can find time after preparing for Chickenzilla's future police action against the Order.

[F15pilotX]

[quote name='NationRuler' date='04 May 2010 - 06:25 PM' timestamp='1273015500' post='2286917']
No I wouldn't. It's the same NPO. And I don't give a clean slate to GOONS, \m/, or /b/. If they didn't want to be the same alliance, they wouldn't have the same name.[/quote]I'm glad you know us better than we know us.

Edited May 5, 2010 by F15pilotX

[Letum]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='05 May 2010 - 01:13 AM' timestamp='1273018392' post='2286986']
I do however agree with Letum's original point, which was that reparations in large amounts can be comparable to wonder destruction, but the "psychological" effect as he puts it is greater than he thinks, I think.
[/quote]

I do not deny that there can be quite a substantial such effect, but the issue is that it is 1) Unquantifiable and 2) Differs wildly from person to person. The non-economic impact would depend on factors like the threat faced, the strategic needs, the relationship to the victorious alliance, and so on.

Since the situation will never be the same between two alliances, the psychological/political effect will never be the same, and it is thus hard to use it as a justification for a blanket statement that wonders being lost are always the worst thing that could happen. As evidence shows, there are people who face situations where it would be a preferable alternative, because the hard economic impact is deemed more important than everything else.

And to be frank, every harsh term has its own psychological burden. It's hard to meaningfully judge between them.

[MagicalTrevor]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='05 May 2010 - 04:06 AM' timestamp='1273028773' post='2287231']
Counterargument:

Name three active OWF posters who weren't tied to the Continuum.

Period.

There pretty much weren't any.
[/quote]
I can provide you a list of active MK posters if you like?

I mean we had friends in the continum but they were banned from treatying us so we never had a tie to them

Edited May 5, 2010 by MagicalTrevor

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Jesse End' date='04 May 2010 - 10:51 PM' timestamp='1273027898' post='2287208']
Before I started shipping away my technology, I had zero infrastructure and was bill locked because of the war. Before that, I was in a 3 month war against 15+ alliances. Before that, over a year ago, I had other wonders to buy and met the requirements to buy them.
[/quote]

How much tech did you end the war with?

[quote name='Haflinger' date='04 May 2010 - 11:06 PM' timestamp='1273028773' post='2287231']
Counterargument:

Name three active OWF posters who weren't tied to the Continuum.

Period.

There pretty much weren't any.
[/quote]

Hmm, myself for one.

Atrophis, Cataduanes and Chickenzilla.

[shwypn]

o/ Sir Paul

o/ Corath

/ the Empire

[Haflinger]

[quote name='MagicalTrevor' date='05 May 2010 - 06:02 AM' timestamp='1273053750' post='2287532']
I can provide you a list of active MK posters if you like?
[/quote]
MK was treatied to MHA. Sorry, no good.

[Sandwich Controversy]

you mean the NAP we had

lmao

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' date='05 May 2010 - 08:24 AM' timestamp='1273062275' post='2287565']
you mean the NAP we had

lmao
[/quote]
No, I meant Aqua ICE.

[AirMe]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='05 May 2010 - 08:42 AM' timestamp='1273063319' post='2287574']
No, I meant Aqua ICE.
[/quote]

Which we withdrew from before the noCB war. Long before Q broke up.

Edited May 5, 2010 by AirMe

[President HiLow]

[quote name='Geoffron X' date='04 May 2010 - 11:33 PM' timestamp='1273008811' post='2286765']
CSN is basically GGA with [i][b]a stable government and more WRC's[/b][/i]. Basically, all they provide is propaganda for the other side.

Also, yes! Inevitable rise of Pacifica. We are pretty much awesome and stuff.
[/quote]

I think you have just made wicked very happy.

[James I]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='05 May 2010 - 01:42 PM' timestamp='1273063319' post='2287574']
No, I meant Aqua ICE.
[/quote]
Game, set and match.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='AirMe' date='05 May 2010 - 08:47 AM' timestamp='1273063610' post='2287579']
Which we withdrew from before the noCB war. Long before Q broke up.
[/quote]
Yep, true.

I would cite the Pacifica-Polaris Dispute as being basically the start of the downfall of Pacifica though, and thus the end of the Hegemony.

[AirMe]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='05 May 2010 - 08:57 AM' timestamp='1273064243' post='2287588']
Yep, true.

I would cite the Pacifica-Polaris Dispute as being basically the start of the downfall of Pacifica though, and thus the end of the Hegemony.
[/quote]

If this is your response when you are proven wrong, I have to ask.....what the hell was your original point?

[Bilrow]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='05 May 2010 - 07:18 AM' timestamp='1273061917' post='2287561']
MK was treatied to MHA. Sorry, no good.
[/quote]
MK was treatied to NPO with a [s]PIAT[/s] MDP? as well.

Edited May 5, 2010 by Bilrow

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='04 May 2010 - 08:55 PM' timestamp='1273020927' post='2287047']
Name three active OWF posters who weren't tied to the Continuum that consistently held an anti-Pacifican stance during the Pacifican Hegemony that weren't ostracized or PZIed for it.
[/quote]

During my time in Browncoats after \m/ disbanded I was very active, at various points calling Moo (the attack on FAN a few days before their treaty terms expired), Bilrow (the Lady Dakota Incident), and others to task for things that they had done. You could argue over whether during that era I was "relevant", but in reality my presence outside the major alliances should have made launching an attack against myself specifically or Browncoats in general and turning me into a grease spot all that much easier.

It didn't happen. Nor was I shouted into silence, much to the annoyance of NpO at the time.

[AirMe]

[quote name='Bilrow' date='05 May 2010 - 11:23 AM' timestamp='1273072991' post='2287680']
MK was treatied to NPO with a [s]PIAT[/s] MDP? as well.
[/quote]

MDP was killed during the UJW. The PIAT didn't come until 9 months after the noCB war.

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='05 May 2010 - 11:38 AM' timestamp='1273073882' post='2287694']
During my time in Browncoats after \m/ disbanded I was very active, at various points calling Moo (the attack on FAN a few days before their treaty terms expired), Bilrow (the Lady Dakota Incident), and others to task for things that they had done. You could argue over whether during that era I was "relevant", but in reality my presence outside the major alliances should have made launching an attack against myself specifically or Browncoats in general and turning me into a grease spot all that much easier.

It didn't happen. Nor was I shouted into silence, much to the annoyance of NpO at the time.
[/quote]

Weren't you permanently expelled from Browncoats and PZIed?

[Heft]

People seem to be mistaking an inability to do something with mercy or tolerance.

I haven't destroyed the planet lately in a fit of genocidal rage. I'm so benevolent.

[Letum]

I'm going to skip this whole "name me x number" discussion and say that blanket statements are always wrong.

Wait, that's a blanket statement...

/me shoots himself in the head.

[Jesse End]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='05 May 2010 - 05:28 AM' timestamp='1273058884' post='2287547']
How much tech did you end the war with?[/quote]

I stated that originally, see bolding:

[quote name='Jesse End' date='04 May 2010 - 05:43 PM' timestamp='1273016607' post='2286955']
I'll give you an example using my own nation to help you look at it from a different angle.

We were restricted to only sending tech from nations with over 1k tech, so no small nation tech sellers. Because of that, you can also consider the replacement value of the tech that each of those over-1k tech nations had at the time when the war ended and reps started.

[b]I had 2740 tech when the war ended[/b], which according to a tech calculator, is worth $511,049,309.98. When I ran out of that, I started buying it in 150 tech chunks to keep sending reps; as of today, that totals 2910 tech (not including what I currently have on hand, which will be used for more reps, plus purchasing more still), which at $2,690,637.16 per 150 tech (from tech calculator), totals $52,198,360.90.

So, at my cost of the 5650 tech, I have sent $563,247,670.88 worth of tech to date. To replace the tech that I have sent, not including what I will still be sending until our reps end, it would cost me $1,917,746,371.30. If I replace the entire amount with $3mil/100 tech deals, assuming I can get 100% perfect completion rate with 2 deals per cycle, it would take 28.25 (29) cycles, or 290 days, or 9 months, or 3/4 of a year for me to replace what I have sent.

$2 billion or 9 months to rebuild only the tech reps sent from just one nation, reps aren't even done yet, and that's not including the time for reps to be sent.

Additionally, the only wonders that I currently meet the requirements to buy are those prohibited by our surrender terms. I haven't bought a wonder since early January because our terms don't allow me to buy the only ones available to my nation, so that has set me back 5 months.
[/quote]

I think I see where you want to go with this, so I'll repeat what you quoted too, see bolding:

[quote name='Jesse End' date='04 May 2010 - 08:51 PM' timestamp='1273027898' post='2287208']
Before I started shipping away my technology, [b]I had zero infrastructure and was bill locked because of the war[/b]. Before that, I was in a 3 month war against 15+ alliances. Before that, over a year ago, I had other wonders to buy and met the requirements to buy them.
[/quote]

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='05 May 2010 - 07:28 AM' timestamp='1273058884' post='2287547']
Atrophis, Cataduanes and Chickenzilla.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Cataduanes was never silenced by threat of PZI. Atrophis was in FAN, but he was not on PZI. Chickenzilla was PZIed for spying, but if you want a replacement, Bob Janova. He was vocal about the NPO and never PZIed.[/color]

[Haflinger]

Janova doesn't count, as he was in a Continuum alliance. They specifically wanted people with no connection to Q, to eliminate people like me who spoke out against NPO actions from time to time.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='05 May 2010 - 04:18 PM' timestamp='1273090670' post='2287961']
Janova doesn't count, as he was in a Continuum alliance. They specifically wanted people with no connection to Q, to eliminate people like me who spoke out against NPO actions from time to time.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I see. Well, I think they got their examples. Of course they're not going to listen. The people who were PZIed were done so for actions other than simply speaking. I tried, unsuccessfully, to lead an anti-Moo revolution. That is why I was PZIed. Chickenzilla loves to spy. That' why he was listed. But people who simply spoke were never hit. The whole idea that people who spoke out against the NPO were PZIed was simply a lie created by people like me, and judging by the looks of it, people still believe it.[/color]