Dos Equis on Ice

[Varianz]

What this man is saying is true, I once again successfully infiltrated NSO headquarters and was able to stole one image from Ivan using a costume and creating NSO:

 

Ok I laughed.

[EViL0nE]

which was so long ago that only what 13 of 121 current NSO members were members of NSO for?

This is fairly relevant. BiPolar ended in April of '10, roughly 1170ish days ago. Even going by nation age instead of seniority, NSO maybe has 20-25 nations total that existed during BiPolar. Assume a few more are rerolls and you've got, what, 30% of your alliance that fought in the war you're holding a grudge over?

Adding Polar to XX changes little operationally, I have no doubts they would fight for us when asked and that we would do the same. This is simply a reflection of how close our friendship has become.

[Vindicator]

No offense Ray but just get it over with. We are all tired of hearing about the events that happened so many years ago. You want a coalition? Just get NG on board and you'll have plenty of members to roll us. It's time to move on and the longer you wait, the more foolish you'll look.

 

Fun fact, NSO+NG totally wouldn't have enough members to roll us.

[Dochartaigh]

Fun fact, NSO+NG totally wouldn't have enough members to roll us.

 

...Dude, I like Polaris but y'all would get rolled up by NG by itself.

[Ogaden]

...Dude, I like Polaris but y'all would get rolled up by NG by itself.

Eh?  NG would be evenly matched with Polar up until about 50k, at which point they are outnumbered in every tier on down by 2:1.  The tier where NG has a clear advantage has about 2 people in it.

 

NSO and NG together have enough to gain a modest numerical and statistical advantage, but it would be no easy war, assuming it doesn't escalate and it's a NpO vs NG/NSO showdown.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Ogaden

[Robster83]

...Dude, I like Polaris but y'all would get rolled up by NG by itself.

 

Please tell me this was a hyperbole and you don't actually believe it.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Robster83

[Dochartaigh]

Eh?  NG would be evenly matched with Polar up until about 50k, at which point they are outnumbered in every tier on down by 2:1.  The tier where NG has a clear advantage has about 2 people in it.

 

NSO and NG together have enough to gain a modest numerical and statistical advantage, but it would be no easy war, assuming it doesn't escalate and it's a NpO vs NG/NSO showdown.

 

Looking at the break down, NG has clear advantage in the upper tiers. 13 nations over 100k and below 200k (not even counting NG's top 2 since they can't hit Polaris's #1 nation) in NG vs 5 in Polaris. Yes, NG has 60 nations 50k NS and over and Polaris has 59 nations 50k NS and over. But if you actually take a look at the breakdown, NG has 14 nations over 10k tech, Polaris has 4. NG has a clear advantage in the 100k NS range. Sure, NG will have a fight, don't get me wrong but this past war has shown what a clear tech and high tier numbers can do.

 

If you include NSO, you include 7 more nations over 100k and 6 more nations over 10k tech. So while Polaris will have more nations overall, those nations will be sustaining more damage on average. This means that NG/NSO can take the time to recover either via PM or just chilling and then sell off infra to hit smaller Polar nations while maintaining a clear tech advantage. Even in a Polaris vs just NG matchup, Polaris would have to spend a ton of their warchests to build up to NG levels and continue the fight against their upper tiers. This is not eQ where there were 4+ nations to a single opponent. In an NG vs Polaris matchup, it would be about 2v1. 

 

If you include NSO to this, Polaris only has dominance in the under 10k NS level and that is not even by that much (around 20 or so nations). 

[smurthwaite]

So, congrats on the wicked awesome addition XX.

[pd73bassman]

Looking at the break down, NG has clear advantage in the upper tiers. 13 nations over 100k and below 200k (not even counting NG's top 2 since they can't hit Polaris's #1 nation) in NG vs 5 in Polaris. Yes, NG has 60 nations 50k NS and over and Polaris has 59 nations 50k NS and over. But if you actually take a look at the breakdown, NG has 14 nations over 10k tech, Polaris has 4. NG has a clear advantage in the 100k NS range. Sure, NG will have a fight, don't get me wrong but this past war has shown what a clear tech and high tier numbers can do.

 

If you include NSO, you include 7 more nations over 100k and 6 more nations over 10k tech. So while Polaris will have more nations overall, those nations will be sustaining more damage on average. This means that NG/NSO can take the time to recover either via PM or just chilling and then sell off infra to hit smaller Polar nations while maintaining a clear tech advantage. Even in a Polaris vs just NG matchup, Polaris would have to spend a ton of their warchests to build up to NG levels and continue the fight against their upper tiers. This is not eQ where there were 4+ nations to a single opponent. In an NG vs Polaris matchup, it would be about 2v1. 

 

If you include NSO to this, Polaris only has dominance in the under 10k NS level and that is not even by that much (around 20 or so nations). 

 

 

I don't believe you so I want to see this to be sure :ehm:

[Sunny Side King]

Please tell me this was a hyperbole and you don't actually believe it.

Quality > quanity

Edited July 24, 2013 by Sunny Side King

[Rush Sykes]

It could be they got dicked over by NpO three or four years ago, could be a lot of folks think NSO look ridiculous to be foaming at the mouth about that now, and it could be a lot of folks laugh at NSO whenever they talk tough, you know legion flashbacks etc. So yeah, they should stfu and oA in on a beatdown like the brave badasses they are. They wouldn't look so stupid. 

 

This entire comment was pretty dumb.  The length of the grudge NSO holds has 0 relevance. The grudge is not settled. In the eyes of many, it is the same NpO it has always been. The same NpO that puts its allies in bad positions with unneeded bravado. The same NpO who says one thing and does another. That NSO may have to oA with someone else to get their shot at NpO, is even more irrelevant. It is literally what every alliance targeting another alliance has done since day 1 of Planet Bob's existence. You make friends who are like-minded. You use your ties along with their ties to achieve your goals. They are merely playing the game and trying to move the chess pieces to suit their endgame. Every alliance has done this, every war has been a result of this, every war in the future will be a result of this. There is literally nothing going on here that makes NSO look bad. 

[D34th]

There is literally nothing going on here that makes NSO look bad. 

 

I could agree with you, but then, we would be both wrong. 

[zoskia]

Nevermind.... just pasted some stats, but the forum displayed them iin a weird way and the post became impossible to read...

Edited July 24, 2013 by zoskia

[mmansfield68]

Nevermind.... just pasted some stats, but the forum displayed them iin a weird way and the post became impossible to read...

It wouldn't matter anyway, wars aren't conducted by virtue of stats.

 

Wars are conducted inside computer screens.  :v:  

[Zombie Glaucon]

Please tell me this was a hyperbole and you don't actually believe it.

 

It's a decent analysis. Doch has been around the block many times.

 

But 1-on-1 (or 1+epsilonNSO-on-1) would be ugly for both sides, and things never go down that way anyways.

[Dochartaigh]

It's a decent analysis. Doch has been around the block many times.

 

But 1-on-1 (or 1+epsilonNSO-on-1) would be ugly for both sides, and things never go down that way anyways.

 

No doubt. Both sides would come out bloody for it. It would make for a fun war but would never go down that way. 

[Helbrecht]

It's a decent analysis. Doch has been around the block many times.

 

But 1-on-1 (or 1+epsilonNSO-on-1) would be ugly for both sides, and things never go down that way anyways.

Yes, Doch = old fart. 

 

No doubt. Both sides would come out bloody for it. It would make for a fun war but would never go down that way. 

No war goes down that way. 

[Vindicator]

...Dude, I like Polaris but y'all would get rolled up by NG by itself.

^^^ responding to this and some other replies on the matter.

 

I wasn't mindlessly spouting words, I'm well aware that NG is stronger than us in the >100K ranges, but that's not the only area the war would be fought (let alone won). I'll echo others (including Ogaden) about the range difference, and even the addition of NSO wouldn't make that much of a difference (the correct quality > quantity statement aside).

 

But perhaps the most important part of my statement was that NSO+NG wouldn't be able to [b]roll[/b] us. It would be an even-sided war with maybe a statistical advantage for them but even that wouldn't be too significant in practice. I wouldn't predict either of us to win it for sure, but them rolling us is very much out of the question imo.

[berbers]

As long as NpO didn't peace out and declare on itself mid-war, you'd be fine :P

[ditchboy00]

This entire comment was pretty dumb.  The length of the grudge NSO holds has 0 relevance. The grudge is not settled. In the eyes of many, it is the same NpO it has always been. The same NpO that puts its allies in bad positions with unneeded bravado. The same NpO who says one thing and does another. That NSO may have to oA with someone else to get their shot at NpO, is even more irrelevant. It is literally what every alliance targeting another alliance has done since day 1 of Planet Bob's existence. You make friends who are like-minded. You use your ties along with their ties to achieve your goals. They are merely playing the game and trying to move the chess pieces to suit their endgame. Every alliance has done this, every war has been a result of this, every war in the future will be a result of this. There is literally nothing going on here that makes NSO look bad. 

 

Seeing as during the length of the grudge there were numerous times they could of hopped on board a Polar beat down and settled the grudge it actually does have some relevance. Conistonslim knows more about being allied to NpO than you and most of the Sith so no need to try and tell him about what Polar does to its allies. On your oA point, I dont think he was mocking them for having to latch on to someone like NG. Just that they should probably stop acting like they are the ones that Polar should be afraid of.  NSO looks like a chihuahua barking at a pitbull. If that doesnt look bad to you then ok.

[MagicalTrevor]

NSO are still crying about Bi-Polar? That's truly amazing. The amount of work that went into getting them a simple out of the war,  but of course it's never NSOs fault when they act like petchulant children, always somebody elses.

 

Nice to know some things will never change.

[Ardus]

I suppose MI6 is next then. But - will you guys last long enough before you disband?

A coalition of one is no way to win a war, RayRay.

[Minion Rouse]

 
This entire comment was pretty dumb.  The length of the grudge NSO holds has 0 relevance. The grudge is not settled. In the eyes of many, it is the same NpO it has always been. The same NpO that puts its allies in bad positions with unneeded bravado. The same NpO who says one thing and does another. That NSO may have to oA with someone else to get their shot at NpO, is even more irrelevant. It is literally what every alliance targeting another alliance has done since day 1 of Planet Bob's existence. You make friends who are like-minded. You use your ties along with their ties to achieve your goals. They are merely playing the game and trying to move the chess pieces to suit their endgame. Every alliance has done this, every war has been a result of this, every war in the future will be a result of this. There is literally nothing going on here that makes NSO look bad. 

NpO has made a lot of changes since then. Their new gov is much more grown up and has made a point to reach out to its allies and protect them, something that didn't happen during Bi-Polar NpO. Polaris was even criticized in Equilibrium for putting allies ahead of the coalition, like that's a bad thing.

They are a very different NpO, which you wouldn't know since you're not actually allied to them. So please stop speaking for NpO's allies unless you actually know what you're talking about (and your info is years old).

[Rush Sykes]

I could agree with you, but then, we would be both wrong. 

 

Considering that you were one of the prime offenders and apologists of Polar dicking over allies, this is not overly shocking.

[Rush Sykes]

NpO has made a lot of changes since then. Their new gov is much more grown up and has made a point to reach out to its allies and protect them, something that didn't happen during Bi-Polar NpO. Polaris was even criticized in Equilibrium for putting allies ahead of the coalition, like that's a bad thing.

They are a very different NpO, which you wouldn't know since you're not actually allied to them. So please stop speaking for NpO's allies unless you actually know what you're talking about (and your info is years old).

 

Are you for real? I am not trying to speak for NpO's allies, and that is a silly notion. The old "Such and such alliance has changed" thing is used by literally every alliance in CN. Sometimes its true, sometimes it isnt. The proverbial proof, however, is in the pudding. And the fact is... no matter how you shake it or break it down , in this last war, Polar , once again, in typical Polar fashion, dicked over its entire coalition. It kinda makes it difficult for those that they dicked over this past war, to accept the whole "we have changed" thing. And to those dicked over by Polar in the past, prior to this new "changed" Polar, they are left to look at it as a broader picture of "yep, same old Polar" and snicker as they sit and watch the fallout.