Announcement from the Viridian Entente

[Starfox101]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1344747820' post='3021088']
Whoops, said the wrong thing, now the boyfriend has come to defend his girl's honor. I'd better stop before this thread devolves to something something Vox important something.
[/quote]
Cute.

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1344747936' post='3021089']
You took a small statement and overreacted to it. A lot of people do put a facade on for the public boards, but if you know GOD or know VE, you'd know that the reason that this treaty has endured through turmoil like it has is because of the bond that many of their members, like mosfunky, share with each other.
[/quote]
Clearly the bonds weren't enough to override the bonds you have with others.

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1344748777' post='3021097']
It could be some overriding 'not being concerned with what people who have alarms go off in their houses whenever a thread that has anything to do with VE gets posted, telling them to get the haterade out of the fridge, have to say on the subject.'
[/quote]
Nice. Everyone is out to get you. I don't ever talk about VE, get over yourself.

[quote name='BamaBuc' timestamp='1344749333' post='3021106']
Didn't you call him Starfox's boyfriend earlier in this thread?

-Bama
[/quote]
I won the fight according to him. Beat me to it.

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' timestamp='1344750576' post='3021123']
Starfox, you have no clue what you are talking about. VE and GOD were great allies, and continued to be so right up until the end. However, the ties that created that alliance have gone sour. Yes, we were great allies insofar as we held to the letter of the treaty, but recently the spirit has gone away. VE will always be considered amongst GOD's greatest allies. The relationship has simply run its course. You've never heard of two people who were still in love breaking up? It happens all the time. Two people love each other dearly, however their interests and paths diverge. Such is life.

Now, take your head out of your ass, and your comments out of this thread.
[/quote]
Yeah, when two people still in love break up they get back together 100 times. Bad analogy. If you're still in love, why did you say relations have soured? You're contradicting yourself while trying to be clever.

You should probably learn some tact as well. You make a better point than Goldie, and I accept it as the reason, but you come off as a screaming lunatic while delivering it. It's as if the world has lost it's ability to have a respectful disagreement.

[quote name='Lord Fingolfin' timestamp='1344750709' post='3021125']
Perhaps this is why you people keep losing. Political realities and friendships are completely different realms and need not be mixed. Signing a treaty with an alliance on the complete opposite side of the treaty web, or maintaining one, is stupid politics. You can like an alliance and be friendly without signing a treaty, and if your interests should align you can choose to work with them or assist them based on your own sovereign right as an entity. Treaties in this place have turned into best friends forever pacts like we're a bunch of bloody school children. The proliferation of treaty signing which has spread faster than a venereal disease in a whorehouse is the reason for stagnation on planet bob. These treaties which have no basis in political reality choke make it impossible for alliances to take any type of action and choke the life out of this place. Alliances should have lots of friends, and few treaties. Treaties are political tools, a great example of treaties used right was the TOP-VE treaty when both alliances had a common interest and thought it would be politically expedient to join together. In the end, those interests diverged and tensions about this very treaty precipitated the cancellation of the TOP-VE treaty when it had outlived its usefulness. If you're political interests line up with that of a friend, by all means, sign a treaty. But treatying someone merely for friendships sake is idiocy.
[/quote]
"You people keep losing"? What did I lose at? Who is you people? Anyway, I only sign treaties with friends and I care not for other people's politics. I don't care what others are doing because I'm not going to be used by anyone's side. My side is my side, my side with friends. If that makes me an idiot, as you say, then so be it. At least I will enjoy myself rather than confine myself to a select group of people. Signing treaties with people you aren't close with for political reasons is a quick way to a messy relationship. There's an ally who will have no problem dropping you. It's harder to drop a friend than a political ally. Politics is shady business, friendship is simple.

The treaty web is nothing new, so I don't know why you speak of it like it is. You don't need to lecture me, as I've been around for 6 years.

[Incitatus]

I say limit of 2 treaties per alliance, and a limit of 50 alliances per CN.

[Kevin McDonald]

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1344752916' post='3021141']
Yeah, when two people still in love break up they get back together 100 times. Bad analogy. If you're still in love, why did you say relations have soured? You're contradicting yourself while trying to be clever.
[/quote]

And sometimes they don't get back together. As well, I meant soured as part of the broader idea of the relationship moving in separate directions. What would you call it?

As for the personal attack, yes, probably uncalled for. It's an emotional time. (Insofar as anything on this planet can be considered emotional.)

[Salmia]

Yet another movement that shows how times change. Not surprised.

[Canik]

If a friendship on Planet Bob is not based on shared political views? Then what is it based on? (*cough*OOC*cough*)

Here, on [b]Planet Bob[/b], the people who share my political beliefs are my friends. And anytime two friendly alliance do have differing views, it puts a strain on the relationship. You cannot and should not totally disconnect politics from treaties.

[Nintenderek]

[quote name='Canik' timestamp='1344753904' post='3021149']
If a friendship on Planet Bob is not based on shared political views? Then what is it based on? (*cough*OOC*cough*)

Here, on [b]Planet Bob[/b], the people who share my political beliefs are my friends. And anytime two friendly alliance do have differing views, it puts a strain on the relationship. You cannot and should not totally disconnect politics from treaties.
[/quote]

If two alliances are actually good friends, the politics will come natural and those two allies will generally naturally shift towards the same side of politics. Point is, it seems VE and GOD weren't as good of friends as they are trying to make it out to be (as evident by the cancellation of this treaty) and now GOD is better off because of it.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1344749327' post='3021105']
I'm better at this than you, Goldie[/quote]

Maybe, but I'll be your huckleberry. Someone commented the other day that we haven't had a good Schattenmann v. Impero thread in a while.

[quote]
I have to wonder what in God's name made VE think that they should announce this rather than GOD.
[/quote]

Because I wholeheartedly meant every single last word said in the OP, a fact which can in turn be imputed on the rest of Viridia, and I felt that it should be known before any speculation began.

[quote name='Nintenderek' timestamp='1344754147' post='3021150']
If two alliances are actually good friends, the politics will come natural and those two allies will generally naturally shift towards the same side of politics. Point is, it seems VE and GOD weren't as good of friends as they are trying to make it out to be (as evident by the cancellation of this treaty) and now GOD is better off because of it.
[/quote]

That may be true on the whole, but it's not always the case. More importantly, some things simply aren't all about politics nor do they revolve around schoolyardesque notions of personal feelings, but rather are a matter of natural progression. Ask your pal Schattenmann, I know he has posted on the notion of few times in the past.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Il Impero Romano

[Canik]

[quote name='Nintenderek' timestamp='1344754147' post='3021150']
If two alliances are actually good friends, the politics will come natural and those two allies will generally naturally shift towards the same side of politics. Point is, it seems VE and GOD weren't as good of friends as they are trying to make it out to be (as evident by the cancellation of this treaty) and now GOD is better off because of it.
[/quote]

I find that agreeable.

[Nintenderek]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1344754152' post='3021151']
Maybe, but I'll be your huckleberry. Someone commented the other day that we haven't had a good Schattenmann v. Impero thread in a while.



Because I wholeheartedly meant every single last word said in the OP, a fact which can in turn be imputed on the rest of Viridia, and I felt that it should be known before any speculation began.



That may be true on the whole, but it's not always the case. More importantly, some things simply aren't all about politics nor do they revolve around schoolyardesque notions of personal feelings, but rather are a matter of natural progression. Ask your pal Schattenmann, I know he has posted on the notion of few times in the past.
[/quote]

Let me quote your first post.

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1344728656' post='3020938']
The Global Order of Darkness and the Viridian Entente have been allies and friends for longer than most of us have existed on this planet. Our histories, for better or worse, have been intricately intertwined. The bond between our alliances permeated our respective cultures, and in many respects helped shape who we would become. As time progressed and the political landscape of this world changed with every passing year, neither of us ever let communication lapse or let the distance between us grow too far. Maintaining this unique allied dynamic was an ever present priority, and a duty we bore with no regrets.
[/quote]

How do you classify canceling one of the longest treaties with one your best allies as natural progression? There's nothing progressive about that. In fact, that's quite the opposite. That seems like you are taking a step in the opposite direction of progression and VE's arguments for why this cancellation was necessary have been laughable at best. It's like you just woke up one day and decided to cancel your treaty with no reason at all.

The one thing I am sure of, based on VE's behavior in this thread, is GOD is now better off with out VE, and I hope many more of VE's allies notice this and cancel their treaties, so that their alliances can progress naturally.

[Alex987]

[quote name='Lord Fingolfin' timestamp='1344750709' post='3021125']
Perhaps this is why you people keep losing. Political realities and friendships are completely different realms and need not be mixed. Signing a treaty with an alliance on the complete opposite side of the treaty web, or maintaining one, is stupid politics. You can like an alliance and be friendly without signing a treaty, and if your interests should align you can choose to work with them or assist them based on your own sovereign right as an entity. Treaties in this place have turned into best friends forever pacts like we're a bunch of bloody school children. The proliferation of treaty signing which has spread faster than a venereal disease in a whorehouse is the reason for stagnation on planet bob. These treaties which have no basis in political reality choke make it impossible for alliances to take any type of action and choke the life out of this place. Alliances should have lots of friends, and few treaties. Treaties are political tools, a great example of treaties used right was the TOP-VE treaty when both alliances had a common interest and thought it would be politically expedient to join together. In the end, those interests diverged and tensions about this very treaty precipitated the cancellation of the TOP-VE treaty when it had outlived its usefulness. If you're political interests line up with that of a friend, by all means, sign a treaty. But treatying someone merely for friendships sake is idiocy.
[/quote]

I disagree. Treaties for purely political, Machiavellian purposes more likely lead to stagnation. If everybody behaved that way, every war would be a one-sided curbstomp, with no excitement, because without friendship, there is no reason to jump in on the losing side. And something as absolutely decisive and unpassionate as a new curbstomp every few months just for political expediency doesn't keep people excited. Sure, it works on an individual basis, but then again, if you wanted to build strength, why not just go GPA-mode as an alliance, then once you're large enough just come out of neutrality? That sounds like a better approach if it's truly about politics and strength, not friendship.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Nintenderek' timestamp='1344754923' post='3021154']
Let me quote your first post.



How do you classify canceling one of the longest treaties with one your best allies as natural progression? There's nothing progressive about that. In fact, that's quite the opposite. That seems like you are taking a step in the opposite direction of progression and VE's arguments for why this cancellation was necessary have been laughable at best. It's like you just woke up one day and decided to cancel your treaty with no reason at all.

The one thing I am sure of, based on VE's behavior in this thread, is GOD is now better off with out VE, and I hope many more of VE's allies notice this and cancel their treaties, so that their alliances can progress naturally.
[/quote]

I classify it as such because of the next paragraph from the post you quoted, plus a long period of discussion amongst about two hundred people. Please read the next few sentences though, the one directly after where your quote ended. .


As far as 'behavior' in this thread, you are generalizing based on one individual. That's silly. Don't do that.

[Nintenderek]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1344755324' post='3021158']
I classify it as such because of the next paragraph from the post you quoted, plus a long period of discussion amongst about two hundred people. Please read the next few sentences though, the one directly after where your quote ended. .


As far as 'behavior' in this thread, you are generalizing based on one individual. That's silly. Don't do that.
[/quote]

Well, let's take a read then.

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1344728656' post='3020938']
Today though, we must put the past away. After long and dutiful consideration at both the membership and government level, it is my duty to announce the cancellation of the Balkan Entente treaty pursuant to Article 5. There comes a time when if one wishes to continue to grow as a culture, you must view the future from the present looking forward. It is for this reason, and this reason alone, that we have decided to take this path.
[/quote]

Well, no mention of who started these conversations or why. No reason of how these conversations started or the reasoning behind them. The only thing you say is to "grow as a culture," with out explaining how this helps you evolve as a culture.

And quite frankly, this really doesn't help you grow at all. Like I said, you had a good ally in GOD. You said so yourself, and while I personally have never been allied to them, I can't remember the last time I heard anyone who's formally been an an alliance allied to GOD tell me how horrible of an ally they are. In fact, I know quite a few people who would tell me quite the opposite. So I fail to see how canceling a good treaty with a good ally qualifies as growing as an alliance.

[Hereno]

[quote name='Incitatus' timestamp='1344753137' post='3021143']
I say limit of 2 treaties per alliance, and a limit of 50 alliances [b]per CN[/b].
[/quote]

There can be only one.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Nintenderek' timestamp='1344755612' post='3021159']
Well, let's take a read then.



Well, no mention of who started these conversations or why. No reason of how these conversations started or the reasoning behind them. The only thing you say is to "grow as a culture," with out explaining how this helps you evolve as a culture.[/quote]

We did, in one form or another. I did not elaborate because I wished to keep the OP brief. We have been around a very long time, and we have worn many hats on this planet. We have been at the top, the bottom, everywhere in between, disbanded and returned, started blocs and seen them leave, won many wars and lost a few as well. Through it all though, through all goals met and passed, we have always continued to move forward. Yet, there comes a time when the mechanisms for doing so become limited, for no reason other than the fact that we have done nearly everything else. It is for that reason we did this, and has nothing to do with notions of friendship or otherwise. We must continue on and continue to grow, it's the only reason why we, and every other alliance, is here.

[quote]
And quite frankly, this really doesn't help you gro.w at all. Like I said, you had a good ally in GOD. You said so yourself, and while I personally have never been allied to them, I can't remember the last time I heard anyone who's formally been an an alliance allied to GOD tell me how horrible of an ally they are. In fact, I know quite a few people who would tell me quite the opposite. So I fail to see how canceling a good treaty with a good ally qualifies as growing as an alliance[/quote]

It does, because it provides for a new and different dynamic to which we must adapt. GOD indeed was a good ally, and they are a friend. Like I said, I meant every last word I said in the OP, and that will always be true. Some things though, you must do for yourself. Maybe your mother cut off the crusts on your grilled cheese sandwiches until you were well into your teens, maybe she put a sticker on the refrigerator every time you successfully defecated in the appropriate place, and maybe its ingrained in your mind that all that matters in the world is smiles, friendship, and rainbows. Unfortunately, reality is not so easy. Sometimes you need to loose half of your alliance for a friend like we did just a few weeks ago, and sometimes you need to leave the past behind you so you can forge a path in the future like we did here today.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Il Impero Romano

[Joseph Black]

Congrats GOD. VE you managed to end a perfectly good relationship, with an alliance that would have actually had your back in the curb stomp that is coming to you. Soom VE, soon

[NoFish]

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1344746551' post='3021079']
Just about a year late.
[/quote]
To be honest, I agree with you. At the same time, however, I think it speaks a lot that neither of us were willing to discard this tie that quickly. We have a long history together, and still a lasting friendship between a great number of our nations.

Edited August 12, 2012 by NoFish

[dvdcchn]

best luck to all involved, i wish you both well

[Commander shepard]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' timestamp='1344750576' post='3021123']
Starfox, you have no clue what you are talking about. VE and GOD were great allies, and continued to be so right up until the end. However, the ties that created that alliance have gone sour. Yes, we were great allies insofar as we held to the letter of the treaty, but recently the spirit has gone away. VE will always be considered amongst GOD's greatest allies. The relationship has simply run its course. You've never heard of two people who were still in love breaking up? It happens all the time. Two people love each other dearly, however their interests and paths diverge. Such is life.

Now, take your head out of your ass, and your comments out of this thread.
[/quote]


Interests like they think you will be rolled again.

[quote]There comes a time when if one wishes to continue to grow as a culture, you must view the future from the present looking forward. It is for this reason, and this reason alone, that we have decided to take this path. [/quote]

So to grow they must dump an ally they had for ages, considering VE's other allies VE would be lucky to stagnant as a culture.

[Alterego]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1344732579' post='3020980']
I'll just say this is sad for those involved but completely necessary, as cliche as that sounds. [b]At least VE had the balls and commitment to keep this treaty and honor it despite everything else. Kudos, boys and Goldie.[/b]
[/quote]

I'll second this. The time to cancel a treaty is after a war not the day before the war starts. Good luck to both.

[quote name='hormones74' timestamp='1344736534' post='3021009']
Finally. My respect for VE just rose.
[/quote]

Says a lot about you. Defending an ally doesnt get your respect. Ditching an ally gets your respect.

[quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1344745910' post='3021075']

I hate how fake CN is, sometimes.
[/quote]

I agree. Just like the alliance hoppers who change sides at the drop of a hat and become a fanatical supporter of the side they are on and a fanatical opponent of the side they arent with any given day, how fake.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Alterego

[Brenann]

You fought hard for GOD even when you knew it was going to end badly for your alliance. Having to move on from a treaty partner that you have had for so long is hard but there comes a time when it is best for your alliance.

I wish VE the best of luck in re-building their pixels and plotting a stronger FA course.

[Ch33kY]

Finally! Good move Viridia.

GOD is fair game now.

[Farnsworth]

I was wondering if/when this would happen... you two had a great run, better than most!

Differences aside, as a former VE diplomat to GOD, I salute you both... o7



edit:

[quote name='Ch33kY' timestamp='1344767255' post='3021188']
Finally! Good move Viridia.

GOD is fair game now.
[/quote]

Hi, Ch33kY!

Edited August 12, 2012 by Farnsworth

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Ch33kY' timestamp='1344767255' post='3021188']
Finally! Good move Viridia.

GOD is fair game now.
[/quote]

Yeah because being treatied to VE was a powerful safeguard that stopped them being rolled out of the blue.

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1344773661' post='3021214']
Yeah because being treatied to VE was a powerful safeguard that stopped them being rolled out of the blue.
[/quote]

yup, now the shot's wide open to do so

[HawkeyeNation]

o/GOD

Best of luck to both parties in the future.