omfghi2u2 Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 [quote name='zzzptm' timestamp='1329579533' post='2923383'] Are there any alliances remaining that yet require a pound of flesh from Polaris? [/quote] They shall see them in two years. -omfg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodFCS Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Congrats to all. Ridiculous reps is a new low for TOP though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 [quote name='CodFCS' timestamp='1329580603' post='2923388'] Congrats to all. Ridiculous reps is a new low for TOP though. [/quote] You had plenty of opportunities to help them get a better deal by honoring your treaties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWilliam Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 I can't help but wonder if Polar was as difficult for you here, TOP, as you were for us when negotiating an end to BiPolar. Congrats on peace to those involved and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hormones74 Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 1. Thanks to our allies and friends. 2.Thanks to Polar. Its been fun fighting you guys. Whats so bad about taking reps? Its people like you naysayers that are killing this game. Over the years you treehuggers have whined and complained about everything. Tell me something. Why doesn't anyone want to have fun anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Taking reps is below TOP, they should send them to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1329549620' post='2923240'] Just as members of Polar and STA and other simpleminded folk take the seven alliances that fought Polar in WotC and condense them down to just TOP for the purposes of their arguments, so do the same people, for the same purposes, take the eleven alliances to whom TOP paid reparations and condense them down to just MK. Like I said earlier, it's convenient for people to do these things for the sake of their arguments, but it constitutes a very obvious evasion of reality. [/quote] I was under the impression it was MK asking for most of the tech, as well as some other members of CnG and allies who helped them fight you guys getting some under the direction of MK. If its wrong to think this who else asked for a massive amount of reps comparable to what MK was asking and what alliances were they? I'm assuming NpO wasn't one of the ones asking reps, but who were the eleven who did? Regardless from my viewpoint TOP in the past has always been an alliance who hasn't went for reps and has a similiar mindset as other pillowfort alliances in their views on not going for reps (Argent doesn't go for reps for example, OMFG doesn't go for reps for example, TOP also used to not be one who was really in favor of reps I used to think), then after MK took advantage of the situation in BiPolar to get record setting reps from you guys it seems to of changed how your alliance views reps to being more in favor of them despite NpO not trying to get any reps out of you guys as far as I know. So while I'm happy for you guys getting your revenge, you guys seem to of let MK and others you fought in BiPolar change you guys into taking a more favorable view on asking reps and how much it is fair to ask, rather than you guys thinking it was wrong of MK and friends to ask such heavy reps of you guys which many watching from the outside thought at the time. That people thought it was wrong of MK to ask such heavy reps of you guys is why some view it as kind of strange that you guys are now allied to them and support the same kind of things as far as reps are concerned as MK did then. Edited February 18, 2012 by Methrage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 [quote name='Blacky' timestamp='1329573047' post='2923350'] Something about these terms are a little unnerving and remniscent of times gone by. Obligatory [i]"Just as bad"[/i] [/quote] White peace from all but one alliance on this front and not a patch on what MK and co demanded. All in all this whole war has produced the most lenient terms from a great war in years and perhaps ever when you take into account how fatty rich alliances are these days compared to days gone by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Congrats to all involved. It was an honor fighting alongside allies and friends. We'll see you in the next one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proxian Empire Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 o/ Peace and the end of the grudge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baltus Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Congrats to our allies in TOP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodivine Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Congrats to everyone on ending the war between you all. o/ IRON/Valhalla/TOP/TSO Polar I hope this begins a better path of actions and history. Good luck to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergerberger II Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 [quote name='Lanore' timestamp='1329549601' post='2923239'] Oh I know. I was just pointing out that most alliances don't move that kind of tech for their own alliance growth. The internal organization of this will be hell xD [/quote] I assure you, the Ministry of Plenty is entirely capable of handling this. [quote name='Janosik' timestamp='1329552297' post='2923256'] As someone who fought for the entirety of both BiPolar and this war, I'm happy to see some resolution. That's well over a year spent fighting Polaris. I wonder if anyone in either alliance has spent more time or casualties beating this dead horse. If you really think MK's defense is comparable to Polar's treachery, you not only need a logic check, but a lobotomy. [/quote] I think that the point was that MK took reparations from you and not us, but I'm not here to debate that. [quote name='Janosik' timestamp='1329552297' post='2923256'] Lanore, welcome to CN. Sometimes we run big programs here. I had the pleasure of paying reps for quite a length of time, I only wish Polaris the same. Unfortunately they will have half the extended joy I had. [/quote] Indeed, and Polaris is perfectly capable of paying the reparations to which we have agreed. [quote name='Janosik' timestamp='1329552297' post='2923256'] Fallen Fool, you seem a reasonable individual speaking some sort of amicability, but your compatriots voices are ringing much louder than yours. We are hearing their disgruntlement and their insults, not your voice.[/quote] I assure you that Polaris feels that this feud is now concluded. We are well prepared to move on, and any dissenting voices to that opinion are in the minority. [quote name='Janosik' timestamp='1329552297' post='2923256'] These reps are embarrassingly low to what was negotiated. I and others were willing to shoot low so we could wrap this up quicker. (Although someone like me in the lower ranks with enough reserves to buy a few nations was in no rush.) Now in this thread I wonder whether we should have run a harsher line as the criticism appears to not be about numbers but ad hominem. [/quote] Everything is ad hominem. [quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1329559459' post='2923286'] They wouldn't have been in a position to take that amount of reps if half the coalition led by Polaris hadn't disappeared overnight after carrying out the plan that was made, discussed and cleared with Polar. I believe even Polar agrees that mistakes were made. For some it costed them alot more than 125k. For instance, it took IRON around 10 months to get out of reps due to Gramlin's extended BS and the fighting went on for a lot more longer then now as well, + 100k+ tech. Anyway, IRONers consider the Bi-Polar issue settled, I hope members of Polaris also view it as such. [/quote] I wouldn't really consider the Ramlins thing to be any sort of an inconvenience, more of a minor annoyance. But then again, I wasn't in IRON at the time. Anyway, I assure you that Polaris does indeed consider all things settled with IRON. [quote name='Meterman' timestamp='1329560572' post='2923290'] Thanks to our allies, y'all are great. NpO: We appreciate the good fight, honorable, proud, and full of perseverance. We sincerely hope for a smooth rebuilding of Polar and a future relationship that is fruitful and fun! [/quote] Thank you for the well-wishes. [quote name='TIEIXIAIS' timestamp='1329562534' post='2923306'] Polar should have thought about the repercussions of blatantly backstabbing it's allies. The matter is considered settled and NpO got a significantly easier set of terms then IRON and TOP them. I'd be happy if I were you. [/quote] Polaris and the people who declared war on C&G on January 28th were not allies. Happy? No. Content, satisfied? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Lightning Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 [quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1329582004' post='2923400'] I was under the impression it was MK asking for most of the tech, as well as some other members of CnG and allies who helped them fight you guys getting some under the direction of MK. If its wrong to think this who else asked for a massive amount of reps comparable to what MK was asking and what alliances were they? I'm assuming NpO wasn't one of the ones asking reps, but who were the eleven who did? Regardless from my viewpoint TOP in the past has always been an alliance who hasn't went for reps and has a similiar mindset as other pillowfort alliances in their views on not going for reps (Argent doesn't go for reps for example, OMFG doesn't go for reps for example, TOP also used to not be one who was really in favor of reps I used to think), then after MK took advantage of the situation in BiPolar to get record setting reps from you guys it seems to of changed how your alliance views reps to being more in favor of them despite NpO not trying to get any reps out of you guys as far as I know. So while I'm happy for you guys getting your revenge, you guys seem to of let MK and others you fought in BiPolar change you guys into taking a more favorable view on asking reps and how much it is fair to ask, rather than you guys thinking it was wrong of MK and friends to ask such heavy reps of you guys which many watching from the outside thought at the time. That people thought it was wrong of MK to ask such heavy reps of you guys is why some view it as kind of strange that you guys are now allied to them and support the same kind of things as far as reps are concerned as MK did then. [/quote] I think this is more of a rare exception than a new rule. Traditionally, we've seen no reason to exact reparations from our defeated enemies. Most of the time, they (and we) are just following treaties, give us a good fight and generally don't give us any reason to impose them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodvar Jarl Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 [quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1329582004' post='2923400'] I was under the impression it was MK asking for most of the tech, as well as some other members of CnG and allies who helped them fight you guys getting some under the direction of MK. If its wrong to think this who else asked for a massive amount of reps comparable to what MK was asking and what alliances were they? I'm assuming NpO wasn't one of the ones asking reps, but who were the eleven who did? Regardless from my viewpoint TOP in the past has always been an alliance who hasn't went for reps and has a similiar mindset as other pillowfort alliances in their views on not going for reps (Argent doesn't go for reps for example, OMFG doesn't go for reps for example, TOP also used to not be one who was really in favor of reps I used to think), then after MK took advantage of the situation in BiPolar to get record setting reps from you guys it seems to of changed how your alliance views reps to being more in favor of them despite NpO not trying to get any reps out of you guys as far as I know. So while I'm happy for you guys getting your revenge, you guys seem to of let MK and others you fought in BiPolar change you guys into taking a more favorable view on asking reps and how much it is fair to ask, rather than you guys thinking it was wrong of MK and friends to ask such heavy reps of you guys which many watching from the outside thought at the time. That people thought it was wrong of MK to ask such heavy reps of you guys is why some view it as kind of strange that you guys are now allied to them and support the same kind of things as far as reps are concerned as MK did then. [/quote] We never changed our position on reps. They are sometimes necessary, such as in this case, at other times they are not. In general, the norms of Digiterra has been moving away from demanding them, and we are not unaffected by this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Warrior Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Well that was fun. Too bad there wasn't much to do for us up top on the nation rankings. I wouldn't have minded beating up what little remains of Polaris's upper tier. It really is too bad that many disobeyed orders to leave PM and fight for their brothers. Well done to everyone in our lower tier for standing strong and fighting to the end! Good luck rebuilding Polaris. o/ IRON o/ TOP o/ Valhalla o/ TSO o/ NpO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crymson Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) Those complaining about the reparations being present in conjunction with the "no further retribution" term should note two things: 1) The term in question was requested by Random, who was concerned that those hostile to Polaris for the actions taken by that alliance in the Bipolar War would return to exact more revenge for it later on. 2) The term in question accordingly reads "no further retribution will be sought." It means simply that no more wars will be fought over the prior issues between the two parties. It does not mean that the two parties will make an effort to start being friendly with each other. We'll see if that happens in the future, but "bury the hatchet" (which seems to be interpreted in this case as meaning "being nice to each other") is [b]not[/b] the sentiment behind that term, and those interpreting the term as such are making a large and very incorrect stretch in doing so. It would be absurd to think that the emotional hostility between the two parties will simply go away overnight. Edit: I see it's mostly members of Polaris and STA who are making this incorrect interpretation of the term in question, so whatever. Edited February 19, 2012 by Crymson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorponok Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Congrats on the victory TOP, IRON, Val and TSO. Until next time. IRON I hear #1 Sanction spot is on its way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoppistan Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 [quote name='Centurius' timestamp='1329581003' post='2923389'] You [s]had[/s] have plenty of opportunities to help them get a better deal by honoring your treaties. [/quote] Correct. The Legion aid drops are commencing. That should help sweeten the deal. Thank the heavens this is over, all the !@#$%*ing and moaning from supposed "aggrieved parties" will end. Peace of mind, at last. Now on to a new era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crymson Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) I'll go over this for informational purposes: [quote name='pezstar'] So, with all the discussion of what Polar is and isn't responsible for, I find it necessary to say that no, TOP probably wouldn't have attacked if not given the go-ahead by Grub.[/quote] We certainly wouldn't have attacked if not given the go-ahead, as doing so would have made absolutely no military sense. [quote] I say this because TOP asked permission. If they planned to attack no matter what, they wouldn't have asked permission. They didn't approach and try to make a plan, and come up with it with Polaris... they literally asked permission, and that's why I say that I don't think they'd have attacked if Grub hadn't granted that permission.[/quote] Actually, we did approach and make plans with Polaris; the plan for the preempt was made in conjunction with them. Moridin can confirm this. [quote] Whether it was a double cross by Grub, I honestly don't know. I suspect it wasn't, though. He alludes to it being his plan the whole time now, but STA talked to him extensively at the time, and unless he outright lied to our faces, it wasn't his plan. I know for sure that absolutely no one else in Polaris knew about the plan, if there was one. That also leads me to the conclusion that he didn't plan it that way.[/quote] I agree that there was no master plan. He claims that there was one in an effort to cover up the fact that he simply fell apart emotionally during that war and started making stupid decisions, of which betraying TOP was one. Edited February 18, 2012 by Crymson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pezstar Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 [quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1329589928' post='2923465'] I'll go over this for informational purposes: We certainly wouldn't have attacked if not given the go-ahead, as doing so would have made absolutely no military sense. Actually, we did approach and make plans with Polaris; the plan for the preempt was made in conjunction with them. Moridin can confirm this. I agree that there was no master plan. He claims that there was one in an effort to cover up the fact that he simply fell apart emotionally during that war and started making stupid decisions, of which betraying TOP was one. [/quote] Your last line there was exactly what I was trying to convey, and couldn't think of the words for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timberland Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 [quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1329591125' post='2923469'] Your last line there was exactly what I was trying to convey, and couldn't think of the words for. [/quote] and the truth shall set you free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogal Dorn Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 congrats to all my friends regardless of their AA on achieving peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjalbert Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Glad to see an amicable resolution reached by all parties involved, especially to NpO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor Noldorin Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 [quote name='bzelger' timestamp='1329539756' post='2923089'] but to try to dress it up as justice or righteous vengeance is contemptible. [/quote] We deem this as justice and will no longer hunt Polar for what we believe were crimes against our alliance. Now, wither you believe it is justice is irrelevant in our eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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