Daikos Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 I remember back when \m/ had a couple of amazing leaders. They wouldn't have stood for that kind of crap in their channel. Well they aren't the leaders any more so it isn't THEIR channel. It is someone elses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earogema Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 I remember back when \m/ had a couple of amazing leaders. They wouldn't have stood for that kind of crap in their channel. Er uh... I don't know if you knew L_E or R that well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmightyGrub Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 What disappoints me most, is that OOC matters are taken by some in an IC context and hence need to be discussed in an IC place. The two have no relation with each other. There was nothing and I repeat nothing OOC about the context of the situation and for people like you to hide behind such a thin shield of hypocrisy amuses me. You moan and whinge all the time about what is wrong with CN, but you will support filth being propagated in the name of diplomacy. You fail and will continue to do so. The new Hegemony has !@#$ty standards compared to the old one it seems. o/ SCM the brightest light of the New Hegemony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellAngel Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Wow this really struck me as a surprise.... *yawn* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael Nadal Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) If you're offended by a channel you're in, leave. Pretty simple. If the channel offending you is your own channel, put the hammer down. This is an age old conflict, and the answer, in my mind, remains the same. If you don't like the bs in \m/'s channel, leave. If you don't like the bs in MK's channel, leave. If you don't like the bs in LUE's channel, leave. As far as I'm aware, nobody was being held hostage to stay in any of these chans. If you don't want to be somewhere, just leave. Edited January 20, 2010 by Rafael Nadal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earogema Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 There was nothing and I repeat nothing OOC about the context of the situation and for people like you to hide behind such a thin shield of hypocrisy amuses me. You moan and whinge all the time about what is wrong with CN, but you will support filth being propagated in the name of diplomacy. You fail and will continue to do so. The new Hegemony has !@#$ty standards compared to the old one it seems.o/ SCM the brightest light of the New Hegemony. I'm not sure that Planet Bob has ever had any racial slur. The best I can think of was "Nazi" was used by people to criticize NoR/NoV. I mean, I could go read all my texts, but I have never in the history of Bob seen a racial slur. OOC: Yes I'm speaking in IC contexts. I don't care for racial comments, but to say the entire situation is IC is a very large stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgoods45 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Best of luck to \m/ in all of this. You really didn't have to apologize. I see the same stuff going around in other channels and it doesn't phase me one bit. Kind of pathetic that people take things so seriously these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzle Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Classy apology. Sorry it happened, this isn't what \m/ stands for, but if you don't want to see it stay out of our channel cause we let it happen all of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcraftmazter Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 There was nothing and I repeat nothing OOC about the context of the situation and for people like you to hide behind such a thin shield of hypocrisy amuses me. You moan and whinge all the time about what is wrong with CN, but you will support filth being propagated in the name of diplomacy. You fail and will continue to do so. The new Hegemony has !@#$ty standards compared to the old one it seems. What...the hell? I don't think we are talking about the same thing. As far as I can tell, what \m/ apologized for had nothing to do with politics, diplomacy, sides, wars and in fact nothing to do with CN at all. But please correct me if I am mistaken - because it truly sounds to me as we are talking about two completely different things. And for the record, my life-long ideology has been to keep OOC things separate and unrelated to IC things. I simply fail to see any reason why the two should never be considered side by side. And what is it with the "New Hegemony" crap? I, nor my alliance is part of any side or movement, and quite frankly we are both allied to the same group of alliances - so if you care to insult me based on treaties which my alliance holds, it is no less an insult to your own alliance. I don't support \m/, nor GOONS nor PC in their tech raid, I have never supported alliance-wide tech raids or wars with crappy CBs, which I think are the same thing. I have argued and fought against such things in the past and voiced strong opinions against them. I would even consider that your own ally - the NSO is just as guilty of having done this in the past as has \m/ with the FoA raid. My opinions have supported your side of the current event related to the tech raid on FoA, but what you said here is both stupid and hypocritical - so get your butt of your high horse Grub, and accept that people can have varying opinions, unrelated to any affiliation with a particular side in any given dispute. Hell, I would have thought that you'd understand this better than most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 What...the hell?I don't think we are talking about the same thing. As far as I can tell, what \m/ apologized for had nothing to do with politics, diplomacy, sides, wars and in fact nothing to do with CN at all. But please correct me if I am mistaken - because it truly sounds to me as we are talking about two completely different things. The remarks that I can only assume this apology is about were made towards Grub while he was attempting diplomacy. Believe it or not, Grub has quite a lot of patience, but when he goes out of his way to make diplomatic efforts towards an alliance that chooses to keep its channels of communication well out of the way of the rest of CN and is met with disgusting and racist remarks, that patience wears thin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigrun Vapneir Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 What...the hell?I don't think we are talking about the same thing. As far as I can tell, what \m/ apologized for had nothing to do with politics, diplomacy, sides, wars and in fact nothing to do with CN at all. But please correct me if I am mistaken - because it truly sounds to me as we are talking about two completely different things. I'm with you on the rest of the post, but I have to agree with him on the first, from the logs I have seen, he was there as Polar Emperor trying to engage them diplomatically and the response was a spamwall of a very deliberately offensive sort. That's as IC as anything that happens here and much moreso than a lot of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneLOL Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) Clearly, you guys need to stay out of #\m/ if you're offended. Edited January 20, 2010 by HurricaneLOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmightyGrub Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Clearly, you guys need to stay out of #\m/ if you're offended. Clearly you have no idea what this whole thing relates to. You and every other mindless twit who has rolled his eye and ''boys will be boys'''d the situation have no concept of what this is about. ODN are irrelevant to this discussion, I suggest strongly that you make yourself scarce before embarrassing yourself even further. SCM, seriously, since when do I subject myself to the rantings of racist thugs for casual entertainment. I thought you knew me a lot better than that, and I honestly thought I knew you a whole lot better as well. Your posts disappoint me in ways you will never comprehend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcraftmazter Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 The remarks that I can only assume this apology is about were made towards Grub while he was attempting diplomacy. Believe it or not, Grub has quite a lot of patience, but when he goes out of his way to make diplomatic efforts towards an alliance that chooses to keep its channels of communication well out of the way of the rest of CN and is met with disgusting and racist remarks, that patience wears thin. Be that as it may, my point stands. I'm with you on the rest of the post, but I have to agree with him on the first, from the logs I have seen, he was there as Polar Emperor trying to engage them diplomatically and the response was a spamwall of a very deliberately offensive sort. That's as IC as anything that happens here and much moreso than a lot of it. Mate to me, this announcement has nothing to do with NpO and this is indeed the first I'm hearing of it. To me it seems this is about some OOC thing that happened in their channel. This announcement however does not mention that, hence I am forced to disregard anything which may have happened in relation - but on that note, I don't believe it to be relevant to the central point I am trying to convey. OOC: To the related OOC matter, it's possible to query someone (say, a government official), and ignore what happens in the channel while you are there. I will not hesitate to agree that it is poor form to let people spam the channel with racist remarks and other such unfavourable statements while a foreign official is attempting to contact the government members - especially so when it comes to important issues, however there are two points to note here. Firstly, I am unaware of which government members if any were on hand to put a quick stop to anything improper which was going on - hence I will reserve further judgment about this. Secondly and perhaps more importantly, it still falls into the OOC arena, and has no place in CN and should never have been brought here. SCM, seriously, since when do I subject myself to the rantings of racist thugs for casual entertainment. I thought you knew me a lot better than that, and I honestly thought I knew you a whole lot better as well. Your posts disappoint me in ways you will never comprehend. As mentioned above, this is the first I am hearing about this. However as also mentioned above, I don't think this overshadows my point one bit. Furthermore, I'd like to state that I fail to see how my argument implies that you subject yourself to rantings of racist thugs for casual entertainment. I think it can also be questioned whether said thugs bear truthful racist opinions or not - but alas, that is a subject for another matter. My argument is simple, very simple - it is that OOC should not be mixed with IC. Whenever I see that happen on a level as grand as this, I do in fact get upset. We are all entitled to be upset when we see bad things happen, and we all recognize a range of different evils of varying degrees - me and you Grub, and the rest of them, we are not different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigrun Vapneir Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Mate to me, this announcement has nothing to do with NpO and this is indeed the first I'm hearing of it. Indeed, the announcement seems (purposefully?) vague as to what it is in reference to. To me it seems this is about some OOC thing that happened in their channel. This announcement however does not mention that, hence I am forced to disregard anything which may have happened in relation - but on that note, I don't believe it to be relevant to the central point I am trying to convey. Like it or not, a very large portion of alliance business these days does occur on IRC. That fact alone makes it an IC venue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkerNinja Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 What disappoints me most, is that OOC matters are taken by some in an IC context and hence need to be discussed in an IC place. The two have no relation with each other. We know that it's your position that OOC happenings can have IC significance without warranting an IC reaction, but as shown in the past, that is far from the majority opinion on the matter. For Reference: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...c=76474&hl= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcraftmazter Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) Like it or not, a very large portion of alliance business these days does occur on IRC. That fact alone makes it an IC venue. This is very true - and I knew this point would come on. Once again, I am not trying to defend \m/, and in fact I agree that an apology is in order. I am however against this announcement and the sort of precedent which is being perpetuated here. If an apology were to happen, it should have been OOC, because the very nature of the offense was OOC, and the communication channel over which it took place was OOC. Instead this has now been brought to IC because of unrelated IC manners which are creating a tangled web of problems between \m/ and NpO. Sometimes it is necessary to step back, untangle the web and carefully consider what is being done. We know that it's your position that OOC happenings can have IC significance without warranting an IC reaction, but as shown in the past, that is far from the majority opinion on the matter. I believe this was already covered to death elsewhere. In short, your interpretation is incorrect. I will not get sidetracked about this, thanks. Edited January 20, 2010 by Starcraftmazter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 The remarks that I can only assume this apology is about were made towards Grub while he was attempting diplomacy. Believe it or not, Grub has quite a lot of patience, but when he goes out of his way to make diplomatic efforts towards an alliance that chooses to keep its channels of communication well out of the way of the rest of CN and is met with disgusting and racist remarks, that patience wears thin. "Well out of the way of the rest of CN" takes an extra couple of minutes to get to...maybe. Ok, I'll give you 5 minutes the first time you go in. Grub is well versed in the function of IRC software. You make it sound like he had to ride a pack mules through a mountain range just to get to \m/'s headquarters. I'm also well aware how patience Grub can be. We worked together trying to get OcUK to see reason at one point (at the time, a futile task). However, and I'm sorry to have to say this, I honestly think this has more to do with comments made in another thread regarding \m/'s recent participation in so-called "mass tech raids" than it has anything to do with what may or may not have been said in an IRC channel. Perhaps something were said there that were offensive. That does not surprise me in the least, though it does disappoint me at least to some extent. As I explained to \m/ in other thread, they will be held to a high standard of behavior by others--perhaps higher than they should be--but that is the price for bringing back what many said could not be brought back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budlight Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) egh, ignore me Edited January 20, 2010 by Budlight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Like it or not, a very large portion of alliance business these days does occur on IRC. That fact alone makes it an IC venue. It makes it a hodgepodge of IC and OOC conversations, activities, and occasional drama. Those who wish to conduct serious business (totally IC) quickly go to special channels or into query. OOC: An example...last night in Valhalla's public IRC channel we talked American politics for a while, particularly after the results of the Massachusetts Senate race were being announced. Some in the channel were happy, others a bit sad, there was spin off chatter about health care, abortion rights, and several other topics. Absolutely none of it was IC, nor should it have even been confused for being IC. That however is typical of many, many public IRC channels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 says the guy with 4k ns, come back in a couple years and talk !@#$. I'm surprised no one has mentioned this, but you're not exactly helping your alliances image right now with that avatar of yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechanus Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Recently in #\m/ on irc.synirc.net several \m/ members spewed extremely racist remarks against many people. The behavior of our members can be characterized as abhorrent and it is not the \m/ way. This outburst of remarks falls completely on the government of \m/ and is our mistake. \m/ likes to have fun but sometimes lines can be seen as crossed. \m/ apologizes for the remarks said and the behavior of our members. However, those who frequent #\m/ should know that these sort of comments are said all the time and always jokingly. \m/ is an extremely diverse alliance (No seriously) and doesn't take idle talk seriously. Since there are those that do take those sort of things seriously and \m/ does not want to tarnish the reputation of any of our allies know that this is what we do, these comments are said without hate and can be considered the foolish actions of \m/ and not our allies. I think the best part is in bold, you know, where you try to create some disclaimer that these sorts of things are ok when spoken in idle circumstances, no matter the content. Pure genius. It's like by introducing that bit you are absconding from the things that happened. Brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astronaut jones Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 So, you apologize for the comments and then in the same breath, take back that apology because "this is just what our members do. deal with it." except in fancier speech? yeah.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anu Drake Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Intentionally didn't read the comments because I approve of the OP statement, and it is refreshing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 This is really a terrible apology. It boils down to 'sorry you got offended but that's how we roll'. You aren't at all sorry about the fact that your members were using racist epithets to a foreign ambassador. Considering what Nordreich got rolled for (the suggestion that some of them might be racist), one would expect better control from a modern alliance, particularly one which is already treated with a great deal of suspicion. these comments are said without hate and can be considered the foolish actions of \m/ and not our allies. So if Grub rolls you for them, you won't call in your allies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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