Announcement from \m/

[Bob Janova]

Now, attacking someone personally, [OOC]beyond the confines of this game[/OOC], is rather bad. However, I highly doubt that any comments made at anyone are truly malicious to the person themselves, as opposed to [OOC]their character that they portray.

This is the second time you've tried to push this line, which unfortunately can't be answered IC, so here we go: [ooc]Obviously, declarations of war are IC, and using malicious comments directed at your character to launch IC action is entirely acceptable[/ooc].

[Adam Suttler]

I just ordered my eleventythird burkaninja brigade to drive my people to the polls for a referendum, and would you believe it -- the inhabitants of Ragequit Imminent unanimously declared themselves to be Capitalist Sikhs of Scandinavian ethnicity.

So I am going to have to dismiss your statement that I quoted, but I hope that we can still be friends?

What I meant was that religion and race has no place in discussions concerning the events surrounding [OOC]this game[/OOC]. Your nation's ethnic details usually don't play a large role in major political discussions, [OOC]besides in the RP forum[/OOC].

But yes, we can still be friends.

[Mechanus]

doesn't matter. either way, nothing is going to happen based on some views that it is half-assed

I just wanted to quote this for posterity.

[ModusOperandi]

Recently in #\m/ on irc.synirc.net several \m/ members spewed extremely racist remarks against many people. The behavior of our members can be characterized as abhorrent and it is not the \m/ way. This outburst of remarks falls completely on the government of \m/ and is our mistake. \m/ likes to have fun but sometimes lines can be seen as crossed.

\m/ apologizes for the remarks said and the behavior of our members.

However, those who frequent #\m/ should know that these sort of comments are said all the time and always jokingly. \m/ is an extremely diverse alliance (No seriously) and doesn't take idle talk seriously. Since there are those that do take those sort of things seriously and \m/ does not want to tarnish the reputation of any of our allies know that this is what we do, these comments are said without hate and can be considered the foolish actions of \m/ and not our allies.

What I got from your apology (and I use that term loosely since its clear your unapologetic for the racism but only sorry that you got caught) was that these outbursts happen all the time and you wish to pass them off as the norm.

Well, the community of Bob has established that "No," those comments are not the norm.. no matter how much you wish that to be shown.

Apology has been taken for what it is,

flush.

[Vilien]

Who are you to preach your morals to other people? I, for one, think that the single most important value to hold is freedom of speech. If someone wants to drop swearwords every sentence, that's their choice, and they should have the right to make that choice.

This kind of arrogance infuriates me. Who died and made you Admin?

I really hope you're being sarcastic.

[theArrowheadian]

\m/ tarnished it's existence by coming back.

[Venizelos]

regulation of offensive talk on IRC channels is the responsibility of IRC "cops", not CN alliances.

[hizzy]

I don't know if this has been covered, but a member of \m/, an alliance on planet Bob, called NpO's (another alliance on Planet Bob) government a derogatory term. How can anyone expect NpO's government to not be offended? This isn\tt 2 friends !@#$@#$ the dog and having a ball. This was done with malice fully intended.

ooc: how can anyone argue that this isn't IC???

[Lord Brendan]

Here, there are no skin colours, nor races, nor any real reference to things that happen within reality. Sure, alliances have themes and such, but that is really the extext of it.

That isn't really true. Nobody makes an issue about ethnicity of course, but it's there.

For example the citizens of your nation are primarily of British ethnicity. My own are apparently Mixed, although I couldn't have told you that had you asked me.

[King Srqt]

regulation of offensive talk on IRC channels is the responsibility of IRC "cops", not CN alliances.

Regulation of how an alliance is spoken to is the responsibility of alliances.

Edited January 22, 2010 by KingSrqt

[King Srqt]

ooc: how can anyone argue that this isn't IC???

You should know better than to be surprised by any inane argument that might be presented here.

[Earogema]

I don't know if this has been covered, but a member of \m/, an alliance on planet Bob, called NpO's (another alliance on Planet Bob) government a derogatory term. How can anyone expect NpO's government to not be offended? This isn\tt 2 friends !@#$@#$ the dog and having a ball. This was done with malice fully intended.

ooc: how can anyone argue that this isn't IC???

OOC: Because racial slurs have never existed on Bob. By all technicality, it isn't an IC racial slur. There has been NO oppression of any race, imaginary or otherwise, on Bob.

Were they government members?

Edited January 22, 2010 by Earogema

[Tulafaras]

Correct me if i am wrong, but aren't racist slurs usually considered OOC insults?

Don't get me wrong, i find them deeply offensive as well, but only in their OOC context. To be honest i don't even know what my IC ethnicity is set to, so an IC slur regarding the ethnicity (sp?) of my nation wouldn't really touch me.

[hizzy]

Everyone on Planet Bob (except FOK) speaks english.

Unless there's a new definition for the n word, it means the same damn thing. It's an insult. You know what else you can find on planet Bob? Muslims, Jews, Christians, Caucasians, Africans, Arabs, Chinese.... So the idea that it's impossible to be racist is, for lack of a better word, retarded.

[Lord Brendan]

Racism is bad, except against the Purple team.

[Epik High]

Correct me if i am wrong, but aren't racist slurs usually considered OOC insults?

Don't get me wrong, i find them deeply offensive as well, but only in their OOC context. To be honest i don't even know what my IC ethnicity is set to, so an IC slur regarding the ethnicity (sp?) of my nation wouldn't really touch me.

I'd personally disagree with you there. I'd be pretty miffed if I was, I dunno, negotiating a treaty or something and the counterparty started calling me a !@#$%*. I'd say you'd be being blatantly oblivious to go around pretending you aren't affected because there is no "ethnicity" in CN (though I guess technically there is). There's an obvious negative connotation the community as a whole places on certain words, racial slurs or otherwise, and trying to use an IC/OOC line to underwrite people going around and insulting people to their faces seems like a pretty stupid line of thought.

Though I guess if you really wanted to be anal about the whole IC thing, just pretend these words are considered insults in your cybernations nation, and your nation leader, being the dictator that he is, will not stand for it as it impinges upon his sensibilities. Sounds good enough to me.

[croutonzz]

for lack of a better word, retarded.

Mentally Challenged, if you want to be technical.

It's impossible to avoid. Some way or another, someone will be offended.

[Locke]

Everyone on Planet Bob (except FOK) speaks english.

Unless there's a new definition for the n word, it means the same damn thing. It's an insult. You know what else you can find on planet Bob? Muslims, Jews, Christians, Caucasians, Africans, Arabs, Chinese.... So the idea that it's impossible to be racist is, for lack of a better word, retarded.

Don't forget NEW.

[Earogema]

Everyone on Planet Bob (except FOK) speaks english.

Unless there's a new definition for the n word, it means the same damn thing. It's an insult. You know what else you can find on planet Bob? Muslims, Jews, Christians, Caucasians, Africans, Arabs, Chinese.... So the idea that it's impossible to be racist is, for lack of a better word, retarded.

OOC: All slurs (American or otherwise) are applicable, just because they are in English? Many counties have a variety of slurs/insults, that are not applicable to various other places for differences in culture.

For example: Grub called \m/ "sooks." How am I supposed to know that isn't racist? "Because Grub would never say something racist, hurr."

Or what if I called a member of an alliance something racist from Trinidad and Tobago? You'd have no idea.

Once again, NOBODY in CN has had ANY less of an advantage because of race. The implications of the matter are ridiculous, and to assume it's entirely IC is incorrect.

However, I understand the gripe, and I'll live it with. [/OOC]

You didn't answer my question.

Edited January 22, 2010 by Earogema

[hizzy]

Racism is bad, except against the Purple team.

To hell with purple people! We gotta draw the line somewhere.

[Penkala]

Backpedal, \m/. Backpedal as fast as you can.

Seriously, learn some diplomacy. That was about the worst attempt at it CN has ever, ever, ever, ever seen. Ever.

[Earogema]

Backpedal, \m/. Backpedal as fast as you can.

Seriously, learn some diplomacy. That was about the worst attempt at it CN has ever, ever, ever, ever seen. Ever.

While one never forgets how to ride a bike, doing so backwards is difficult.

[hizzy]

OOC: Because racial slurs have never existed on Bob. By all technicality, it isn't an IC racial slur. There has been NO oppression of any race, imaginary or otherwise, on Bob.

Were they government members?

No, they were not government members. However, that is irrelevant because NpO's declaration of war has nothing to do with it. NpO didn't even bring it to the public; \m/ did. They had no intention of garnering public support (although I'm sure it sealed the deal for some folks). The severity of the offense should not hinge on whether or not it was a government member who said it, and whether or not \m/ deserves to get rolled for it, because they're not.

Mentally Challenged, if you want to be technical.

I don't.

For example: Grub called \m/ "sooks." How am I supposed to know that isn't racist? "Because Grub would never say something racist, hurr."

Or what if I called a member of an alliance something racist from Trinidad and Tobago? You'd have no idea.

Once again, NOBODY [on Planet Bob] has had ANY less of an advantage because of race. The implications of the matter are ridiculous.

1) For starters, if you assume that every word you're not familiar with is a racist slur, then you're going to have a tough time ahead of you. But to answer your question; you can know it isn't racist by typing 1 word in a google search bar. Hurr.

2) Perhaps not, but would my ignorance of a racial slurs mean that it is no longer a racial slur? If I tell you the name of a sports team that you have never heard of, does that team no longer play sports?

3) You seem to believe racism is based upon evidence that one race is actually inferior to another... THAT is ridiculous. Racism does not exist because X has proof that race Y is dumber. It's not based on anything real, just ignorance and an unwillingness to learn. The arab citizens of my nation do not need to be at a natural disadvantage for someone to hate them on the basis that they are arabs.

(edit: ooc, i have cut out all OOC related issues as I will be discussing this in an IC manner.)

Edited January 22, 2010 by hizzy

[Earogema]

No, they were not government members. However, that is irrelevant because NpO's declaration of war has nothing to do with it. NpO didn't even bring it to the public; \m/ did. They had no intention of garnering public support (although I'm sure it sealed the deal for some folks). The severity of the offense should not hinge on whether or not it was a government member who said it, and whether or not \m/ deserves to get rolled for it, because they're not.

I don't.

1) For starters, if you assume that every word you're not familiar with is a racist slur, then you're going to have a tough time ahead of you. But to answer your question; you can know it isn't racist by typing 1 word in a google search bar. Hurr.

2) Perhaps not, but would my ignorance of a racial slurs mean that it is no longer a racial slur? If I tell you the name of a sports team that you have never heard of, does that team no longer play sports?

3) You seem to believe racism is based upon evidence that one race is actually inferior to another... THAT is ridiculous. Racism does not exist because X has proof that race Y is dumber. It's not based on anything real, just ignorance and an unwillingness to learn. The arab citizens of my nation do not need to be at a natural disadvantage for someone to hate them on the basis that they are arabs.

OOC:

1) - Tis true.

2) - Tis true.

3) - Now this is where you miss understood me. I didn't mean actually inferior, I meant they were oppressed. The whole reason we avoid racial slurs is because they actually have a HISTORY behind them. No such history exists on Bob. It's stupid to say it's only IC, because no racial oppression that has allowed the term to be used has ever occurred. That was my point.

If there was history behind the term, then we'd be fine.

Also- Some people do actually take the term "retarded" with serious offense. Many on CN don't, so it's acceptable. Just saying. [/OOC]

EDIT:

So wait, Grub took the words of a common member with no power, to cement the attack. The government apologized for an unofficial remark.

Grub was shunned when he attempted diplomacy with our government, but the government wasn't the one who shunned him?

Well, that sounds odd.

Edited January 22, 2010 by Earogema

[hizzy]

3) - Now this is where you miss understood me. I didn't mean actually inferior, I meant they were oppressed. The whole reason we avoid racial slurs is because they actually have a HISTORY behind them. No such history exists on Bob. It's stupid to say it's only IC, because no racial oppression that has allowed the term to be used has ever occurred. That was my point.

If there was history behind the term, then we'd be fine.

So wait, Grub took the words of a common member with no power, to cement the attack. The government apologized for an unofficial remark.

Grub was shunned when he attempted diplomacy with our government, but the government wasn't the one who shunned him?

Well, that sounds odd.

Ok, I get where you're coming from, and I don't think we'll agree on this point; if you think it's bad due to history, that's fine. I believe it's bad because the word exists solely as a derogatory term in the first place. Now if you wanted to make that argument with the swastika (it was used as a peaceful symbol looooong before anyone cared about it), then I'd agree with you.

Yes, Grub was shunned by your government. He was also verbally attacked (and/or shunned) by a member. Separate times. As far as I know, (and I am fairly confident I know enough), this unofficial remark had very little to do with the declaration of war. Now, that's not to say there were other things going on which led to this state of affairs; but this incident that \m/ decided to bring into public light could have just as easily stayed in the dark.