Nizzle

[quote name='mrwuss' date='20 July 2010 - 11:52 AM' timestamp='1279648344' post='2380930'] You need some Funnyade. [/quote] Unfortunately we are short on "LOL supplements" here in Midgets. Might you send some?

[quote name='TheThirdMark' date='20 July 2010 - 11:46 AM' timestamp='1279647944' post='2380913'] The ''Look at us, failing in holding up any Doctrine at all'' shows the fail in a certain Alliance. [/quote] I have your drink, sir. I would come up with historical examples of alliances caving under huge pressure...but I think you need this more. [img]http://www.thenile.com.au/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/haterade-logo.jpg[/img]

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' date='20 July 2010 - 11:38 AM' timestamp='1279647495' post='2380894'] If alterego is siding with GOONS, \m/ and MK on an issue, then something very special is going on. [/quote] I think he traded in his used Hegemony for a newer model. ZING~!

This is absolutely hilarious. Please, folks, continue traveling from "It's about shoving it in the NPO's face because we can." to "It's just about tech-raiding." Also, continue saying "Might makes right" and traveling to "Survival of the fittest." I mean, really. This thread is about to reach Gold Mine potential, and it's all thanks to those wonderful folks conducting this raid If you guys weren't so torn between what you can do and what you are afraid of becoming, it wouldn't be so great.

Someone needs to update the treaty web. Best of luck to Argent and TOOL.

Huge FA shake up. Absolutely enormous shake up.

Every time a Gremlin tries to explain why unconditional surrender doesn't mean what you think it means an Angel gets it's wings. Lots of angels these days.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='08 May 2010 - 05:12 PM' timestamp='1273360342' post='2291841'] It's kinda sad, isn't it, that you would let a piece of paper get in the way of doing the right thing? [/quote] I sort of feel like the Devil just told me, "Gosh, doesn't it suck that you can't just donate all your money to charity?"

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='08 May 2010 - 05:11 PM' timestamp='1273360299' post='2291840'] Except they haven't been asked to pay anything; just surrender. [/quote] You're being semantic. The notion is there.

They don't know what they are defining, what they are asking, or what they want to see. All they know is that they love the fact they can have no treaties, pull a stunt like this, get everyone riled up and not have anyone touch them.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='08 May 2010 - 05:03 PM' timestamp='1273359812' post='2291827'] I pass, you are evil and should be rolled. Can you spot the logical jump? [/quote] No, I'm pretty sure that's an alternative description of the events you wish to see happen with IRON.

[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='08 May 2010 - 04:53 PM' timestamp='1273359193' post='2291819'] to be honest, you don't need to be rebuilt to help the cause. i joined DAWN with a small WC and have fought one Gre nation. simply by joining and continuing to rebuild you are doing something far more than just voicing your opinion. this whole, "i need to be fully rebuilt and at X amount of NS or i will be useless" argument is bs. by joining you have done several things. 1) showed actual physical support to IRON/DAWN 2) put your nation on the line for what you believe in 3) showed the way for others to hopefully step up and finally do the same 4) actually have a leg to stand on when you demand others do the same i am ready and willing to fight more Gremlins at this time and by my doing so, hopefully allow other IRON/DAWN nations the chance to rebuild. that to me is worth more than a bunch of words ever will be. [/quote] Well said. I merely feel that by having my WC up there I can extend the amount of time other nations can rebuild.

[quote name='Delta1212' date='08 May 2010 - 04:02 PM' timestamp='1273356137' post='2291743'] Would you declare war on Grämlins if you weren't still rebuilding from the war? [/quote] In an instant. Also, I want to be clear about one thing: I fully support and agree with what VE, via Impero, is saying. The point my support for them stops is at their lack of action. All anyone is doing right now is voicing their disagreement over the whole thing and threatening action IF. The "if" that I have seen presented has already manifested itself. Why is there no action? I think a large part of it comes from no one caring about the Gremlins, Gremlins allies not allowing the attack, and no one caring about IRON. Still, if you were against WotC and for Karma...you should be taking action right now, regardless of your precious political consequences.

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' date='08 May 2010 - 11:19 AM' timestamp='1273339168' post='2291470'] Wow, you really are an interesting guy. I'm going to assume at this point that your intentionally ignoring everything I said and will continue to say whatever random thing you so choose over and over again. In the event that you are not but rather are simply having trouble grasping my post, I will attempt to put it as clearly as possible for you in sum: (1) Something needs to be done; (2) It [i]originally and primarily[/i] falls on the shoulders of IRON/DAWN's allies to do it; (3) They need to exhaust their options or make it known that they are unwilling to intervene [i]before [/i]a 3rd party should get involved; (4) Once 3 had occurred, it will then be within the area of last resort and a 3rd party such as us [i]will [/i]get involved to put an end to it if necessary. Currently, we are stuck at 3, because their allies have made no attempt to get released from terms nor have they simply stated they don't want to intervene. If they feel they are to war torn to help, that's fine, they need to just be forthright about it so we can move on to 4, however this is not the case as thus far they have only ranted about being released from terms to help but have failed to ask for that release (in case you've been away, there is another whole thread dedicated to it). This is where we are at now, and hopefully soon we will be moving to 4. There, much less wordy and without legalese. I cannot make it any more clear to you, so I hope you understand this time. [/quote] And, since you thoroughly enjoy repeating the same propaganda points, what have you done to facilitate this process and help in combating this great evil? Have you attempted to assist in talks with the intention of resolving "3"? I would hope so, since you're apparently ignorant to the fact they are war torn already and wouldn't be able to do anything. Do you see? Are you getting it? You can keep talking and talking and talking...but you aren't doing anything. You are merely saying "Yeah, we will, after they meet our burden of proof for Item 3." I mean, seriously. No one is arguing you did not SAY you would help...if you would bother reading what I've said, I am arguing that you won't do anything past merely claiming you would. And, several weeks in, evidence continues to build of that.

[quote name='Gamemaster1' date='08 May 2010 - 11:10 AM' timestamp='1273338589' post='2291459'] Poor attempt to avoid responsibility? Dude, lol. Check my nation and warscreen. I'm in IRON right now. Nice try though. [/quote] Yeah, maybe instead of assuming people are idiots you should consider that it wasn't directed at you but instead the individuals you were helping defend here. EDIT: Actually, reading the entire sentence should have made it clear I wasn't talking to you, as well.

[quote name='Delta1212' date='08 May 2010 - 11:02 AM' timestamp='1273338130' post='2291453'] But if you [I]don't[/I] want to impose harsh terms, then there is no rationale for wanting to seek an unconditional surrender before revealing them. If the terms are not harsh, IRON and DAWN would have accepted them. Therefore, revealing the terms would end the war. Unconditional surrender is unwarranted in this case and there is a no rationale for using it. If the terms are harsh, IRON and DAWN would not accept them. Therefore, they would need to be placed in a weaker position in order to impose the terms. Unconditional surrender is warranted in this case and there is a rationale for using it. According to you: There is no rationale for applying harsh terms. Therefore, there are either harsh terms with no rationale or unconditional surrender with no rationale. In either case, Grämlins cannot be acting rationally and so any demand could be potentially made because you are already making or intending to make at least one irrational demand. [/quote] They are so twisted up in their own world, you cannot reason with them. It's been tried over and over. In the end, you just give up trying to explain to them that, as Impero said, "The sky is really blue, dude."

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' date='08 May 2010 - 11:00 AM' timestamp='1273338013' post='2291449'] Really, go back and read what I said. I don't understand why you keep saying that over and over again after I expressly made it known that the contrary was true. I mean, the text is right here in this thread, the relevant portions have been quoted and put in bold for you, you may want to just drop this one because its rather silly to keep yelling the sky is green when its quite obviously blue. [/quote] So, if the contrary is true, you've actively worked to assist IRON/DAWN in getting assistance from their allies? Or am I correct in the assumption you just continue to rant about it here? I don't get what you aren't understanding. I don't care what you say, bud, it's about what you do. How long has this been going on? How much have you actually done? How long are you going to wait before you come to the already obvious conclusion that IRON/DAWN does not have very many allies capable of helping do anything other than fill slots? That is where my statements and assumptions come from. Don't get sad because I'm not taking everything you say for the truth, it's nothing personal. I'm just getting tired of hearing this lofty talk over and over. I mean, you may be fooling people already predisposed toward you...but not everyone.

[quote name='Delta1212' date='08 May 2010 - 10:50 AM' timestamp='1273337409' post='2291433'] And you know that everyone else is prepared to go fight another war, especially against an alliance that still has a fairly sizeable top tier even if it is dwindling? We just had one of the most damaging wars in the history of the game end a little over a month ago and since then everyone has spent their war chests rebuilding. I still have a big enough one to get by, but even mine is the lowest it has been in over a year, and I was over-prepared compared to the vast majority of the game.[/quote] It's so tough making due while receiving reps, isn't it? You also assume that many current gRAMlins wouldn't fold when faced with people standing against them. [quote name='Delta1212' date='08 May 2010 - 10:50 AM' timestamp='1273337409' post='2291433'] Fighting Grämlins would be a crippling experience for most alliances at the best of times, which these are not. That fact lessens as time passes and Grämlins numbers dwindle and alliances build back up to adequate preparedness, but it's still true. Or does the unprepared quip only apply when it is you? [/quote] I'm having a hard time taking you seriously right now. You are now claiming the victors in a destructive war, who are receiving tech and money, are not prepared for another conflict where they vastly outnumber their possible opponent? hahahahahaha [quote name='Gamemaster1' date='08 May 2010 - 10:51 AM' timestamp='1273337448' post='2291437'] It is a valid attack on you. If you want people to help, the first thing to do is help yourself. Everyone here is rebuilding from a war, not just you. To take a page from Athens' book... Do something about it. I already did. [/quote] Helping before I am prepared, and at the low range of available gRAMlins targets, is no help at all. Using my lack of preparedness to assert other alliances, with nations far outnumbering gRAMlins, are not prepared is absurd and another rather poor attempt to avoid responsibility. It's ok though.

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' date='08 May 2010 - 10:37 AM' timestamp='1273336656' post='2291413'] ???? Really, what are you talking about, its right there. [/quote] Yeah, the awe-inspiring "We will stand with you" lines? Give me a break. If several weeks has not been enough to display they cannot do anything, I don't know what will satisfy any of you. All you are doing is pandering. You're letting everyone know "We believe in good things" while doing precisely nothing about this horrible evil except pushing it off on others. It's the "Have your cake and eat it too" process. I applaud your abilities.

[quote name='mike717' date='08 May 2010 - 10:38 AM' timestamp='1273336718' post='2291414'] Funny that you read only that, because this passage here: could easily be construed as something of a veiled threat. You see what you want to see, and i don't see anything wrong with impero's stance here. [/quote] I read the only relevant part. Talking tough here doesn't turn into tough actions, and tough talk has been going on for weeks now. No one is going to do anything, and despite Impero's assertions I doubt he will try and help DAWN/IRONs allies find a way to help DAWN/IRON. It should be obvious that IRON/DAWN have no allies capable of doing anything, even without surrender terms, but still he sits talking about what they should do to strike out this horrible evil before he lifts a finger. Yes, his little speech was inspiring and I smooth got excited that VE would enter. Then I thought about it and realized the duration of this "conflict". That's when you realize it's just politics.

[quote name='Delta1212' date='08 May 2010 - 10:34 AM' timestamp='1273336477' post='2291405'] So, Nizzle, how many Grämlins nations have you declared on so far? [/quote] And a completely valid attack from Delta1212. You've always been known as level headed. I haven't attacked any gRAMlins because I am not prepared for war, similar to IRON/DAWN's allies. But, yeah, you definitely got me. Damn. [quote name='Alfred von Tirpitz' date='08 May 2010 - 10:35 AM' timestamp='1273336529' post='2291407'] Hey now, just a non government peon here. I would not know what RoK government plans. Yeah they dont tell us stuff like that. However, i have been reading this thread, and its like it has an echo. If you have followed what i have posted in this, or maybe one of the other two discussions regarding this issue, you would understand that i have no liking for the status as it is is today. I am just surprised it is taking so long to sort out. IRON can decimate Grämlins in open warfare now. Granted it wont be painful, but it is much easier now than it was when the other alliances all peaced out. This is a !@#$%* situation made worse by bickering about it on and on and on and not whacking someone upside the head. [/quote] Of course there is an echo in this thread. It's fun. I had to throw in my obligatory "RoK is evil". When someone from Athens shows up they'll get theirs too.

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' date='08 May 2010 - 10:33 AM' timestamp='1273336362' post='2291399'] No, that's really not what I said. Read it. I clearly said before my alliance or any other gets their hands dirty, those who's responsibility it is to do so need to exhaust all their options or say they are unwilling first. I also made it clear that once the treaty partners of IRON and DAWN have done that or directly expressed they are unwilling to do what needs to be done, getting our hands dirty is an option, albeit of last resort. So yea, I literally said the exact opposite of what you framed it as. [/quote] The opposite would mean IRON/DAWN allies didn't have to do anything. If that were the case, you would act. There is no difference between acting now, and realizing that IRON/DAWN allies don't have the capacity to assist, and waiting for them to tell you they have no capacity to assist. Of course, they've already said "We just got demolished in a war and are under terms." Yet, that doesn't meet the burden for your claim. Were you truly "shocked" at this behavior and wanted to stop it, you would assist them in securing a means to help IRON/DAWN. Unfortunately, the relevant part of your belief is the middle paragraph I isolated. The rest is political fluff simply because you have done nothing excluding tough talk here.

[quote name='mike717' date='08 May 2010 - 10:29 AM' timestamp='1273336151' post='2291395'] no offense man, but, did you even read his post? That's not at all what he said. [/quote] Then what does this paragraph mean? He likes chocolate? [quote]At the same time, I do believe [b]something must be done[/b]. A year ago my alliance and many, many others put their all into changing the way things worked, and this situation is[b] categorically aligned[/b] to that which we wanted[b] to rid this planet of[/b] because of the [b]fundamental injustice[/b] behind such acts and the detrimental effects that they have on the community. Because of that, I believe it [b]must not be allowed[/b] to continue or prove beneficial for Gre in any way. But, on the face of the matter [b]its not our place to interfere[/b], nor is it that of anyone else who does not hold a treaty with the aggrieved. An outside and uninvolved party such as us should not have to step in and rectify this, that should be the duty and province of IRON/DAWN's treaty partners above all else. [/quote] Sooo...."It's bad, it's horrible, it cannot be allowed. But, we aren't going to do anything. IRON/DAWN's war torn allies should." It's called consolidating.

[quote name='Alfred von Tirpitz' date='08 May 2010 - 10:28 AM' timestamp='1273336092' post='2291393'] But the owf wants YOU to DoW the Grämlins. You and your Posse. Aww crap. [/quote] I'm actually surprised RoK didn't try this method first.

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' date='08 May 2010 - 10:19 AM' timestamp='1273335522' post='2291375'] That's not even close to what I said. [/quote] You quite clearly said this is a grave injustice, that it's on par with the things you wanted to do away with during Karma, but you aren't going to do anything. I mean, it's not a big deal. Sure, you don't want to act without a treaty. Who would do that? (Gremlins). I can get that. It's cool. I can understand you see this as extreme evil, but you don't want to ruin political capital. It's alright, man, I understand.