Lusitan Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Clearly missing the input of the Left Kidney of Karma Other than that, good luck to the PoWs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Yvl Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Concerning the Karma POWs - I believe Liquid Mercury already covered that. If someone was a POW, they are released. If they left too early, they will be punished. Uh, aside from the ones in alliances we're still fighting, no? Cuz I'd put money on some of them trying to get out with the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cable77 Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Go, be free! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daikos Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Quoted for truth. I still wonder why people ever listened to me Personally, I only listened because of the awesome avatar. In other news, I wish the best of luck to all PoWs. I hope you find alliances that treat you well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Out of curiosity how are you (liquid) ranked or positioned in karma? In a classroom with the students learning to spell 'Phoenix' I imagine. Good luck to the now former POWs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 What part of NPO refusing to follow the path to peace laid out for them do you not understand? Are you referring to the pre-terms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finster Baby Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Notice to former IRON members who decided to surrender and become POW's: Don't come home. You're not welcome. Good luck to you, you'll need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaone Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 On the issue of who is Karma leadership: someone need to post announcements (Archon's task) and LiquidMercury gave some central direction as to which Karma alliance would attack which alliance on the Hegemony side. If you want to talk to someone, talk to one of the alliance leaders of an alliance attacking you. The unwillingness to talk Mhawk described is just what happens when no-one is actually in charge and everything needs to be talked about with multiple alliances, who all have their own opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Since we seem to be having 'that discussion' again: Karma 'high command' does not have any official power and cannot tell any alliances what to do. For peace negotiations, you should talk to the alliances that are defeating you, as it is them you will need to get to sign the surrender. However, there is an informal high command which helped to organise grand scale strategic decisions and inter-front aid. If you do not know who you should talk to, one of the people in this group should be able to help you. As the PoW is a Karma-wide issue, it is natural for a 'Karma spokesman' to post this thread. As Karma is not a formal entity, membership can be unclear, which probably explains the contradictory information you have been given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 As Karma is not a formal entity, membership can be unclear, which probably explains the contradictory information you have been given. But I thought Karma was the next hegemony... are you telling me that's not true?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Un4Gvn1 Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) A certain someone did a certain something to a certain alliance? Good to know. You could have asked who he was and what he was doing here, couldn't you?As for the bolded part, you're either stupider than your posts make you to be or you just decided to ignore just about any post made by Karma. It was clear from day 1 (day 2, depending on your time zone) who was "leadership" in Karma. Who made the initial announcement that founded Karma? Who then mediated most peace talks? Who signed any "official" Karma announcement? See a pattern in the names mentionned? THOSE are the people you should have talked to. If you were fighting alliances who, as you claim weren't part of Karma, you should have talked to them too. I know cheap shots are easy to take - on both sides, mind you - but this is getting ridiculous. Common sense does wonders. No. It was not clear from day 1. Karma, who are you? Post #2 Karma is a catch-all term for the loose coalition that is fighting against the Hegemony. It is difficult to state exactly who is or isn't in it (for example TOP, NSO and NpO are fighting alliances on the Hegemony side of the war, but I believe don't consider themselves to be within Karma). However, as a general guide, if we are at war with a One Vision or Continuum alliance then we are part of Karma.Karma is not a formal structure and therefore it does not have formal leaders. However, if you want to discuss something on a semi-official level with the coalition, you should talk to Archon or LiquidMercury, who have taken on the role of leader in so far as there is one. Post #22 - confusing It still isn't really clear now, unless Karma has solidified or changed in some manner. When did CTB and Twisted become part of the main Karma spokesmen? Posts like this added to the confusion. Oh but as stated in the logs - I wasn't on individual terms. It was an alliance surrender. I joined Karma PoW for a day; but was then told I didn't have to, so I left.[00:19] <Londo|makingvideo> Alright [00:19] <Londo|makingvideo> you're free to go. [00:19] <Londo|makingvideo> just don't reenter the conflict [00:19] <Londo|makingvideo> or aid anyone in the conflict. [00:19] <Londo|makingvideo> or join an alliance that is Hegemony 01[00:19] <Raji|Gone> Awesome. 01[00:19] <Raji|Gone> is GDA hegemony? [00:20] <Londo|makingvideo> yeah but they surrendered [00:20] <Londo|makingvideo> so you can go there. 01[00:20] <Raji|Gone> Awesome. 01[00:20] <Raji|Gone> thanks for everything. [00:20] <Londo|makingvideo> np Rajistan, i guess you spoke to the wrong person..i think Londo is not in Karma Leadership therefore he doesn't have a right to release you from karma PoW.. i suggest you speak to higher ranks in Karma.. Is there a public list of people who have "authorization" to make such decisions regarding POW status? There is no Karma leadership. Edited to fix my linking mistakes. Edited June 10, 2009 by Peggy_Sue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janax Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 I am not Karma leadership. There you go. Narrowed the search for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potato Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) No. It was not clear from day 1.Karma, who are you? Post #2 Same post, second paragraph. Or you could, you know, actually, read the thread you quoted. And I know you did since we both posted in it. The answer is there. If you still don't see it (or don't want to), read BobJanova's post of a few minutes ago. Edited June 10, 2009 by potato Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o ya baby Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Hey Peggy, why does it matter? Whether you know who the leadership is or not, you're still getting smashed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinite Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 No. It was not clear from day 1... What you have to realize is that "leadership" of karma can't authorize anything without talking to 50 other people and getting everyone on the same page. There is no person you can go to and get answers. You can bring up issues with anyone in karma high command, but they have to bring it back to everyone else involved in that decision and get a consensus. As Archon said, it would run a lot more smoothly if we had actual leadership that could dictate things to everyone, but that's not how we roll. It's less efficient for everyone, but it's a brave new world. What's important is that any official karma post such as the OP has been discussed and agreed upon. So good riddance to the deserters. I'm sure some of you had good reasons, but I presume many of you just love your infra. If you don't want to fight, then join a neutral alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Un4Gvn1 Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Hey Peggy, why does it matter?Whether you know who the leadership is or not, you're still getting smashed You speak in the present tense. It is plainly obvious we are all ready smashed -- past tense. It matters because we wonder where the truth lies. No, I will not explain that to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Wilson Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Bye Bye PoW's...enjoy your freedom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joracy Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 There is a certain post by Archon on the first page, which is expanding something LM said that might explain all of this. Or, we could just say that Potato is the real seekrit leader of Karma, and always has been. Would that work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Taco Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Not sure why NSO is so stoked on getting all those POWs into their alliance. Is NSO looking forward to having hundreds of nations flee their AA the next time a war breaks out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 What you have to realize is that "leadership" of karma can't authorize anything without talking to 50 other people and getting everyone on the same page. There is no person you can go to and get answers. You can bring up issues with anyone in karma high command, but they have to bring it back to everyone else involved in that decision and get a consensus. As Archon said, it would run a lot more smoothly if we had actual leadership that could dictate things to everyone, but that's not how we roll. It's less efficient for everyone, but it's a brave new world.What's important is that any official karma post such as the OP has been discussed and agreed upon. So good riddance to the deserters. I'm sure some of you had good reasons, but I presume many of you just love your infra. If you don't want to fight, then join a neutral alliance. This reminds me of when I tried to get vox founder guys peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minilla Island Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Though I believe fleeing an Alliance during warfare is an act of cowardice, and though I believe what I am about to say may be a bit on the BS side, but many of the surrendering nations had serious exam commitments when the wars started. So, they felt they had to surrender. Though I believe that is a load of BS because I fought my Nations while with Polaris at Update for the most part knowing that I had to be work 20 mins after the fact. However, I can understand while people would feel otherwise. That said, I wish the POWs all the best in their search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxNation Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 I would say there is a difference between someone like Wolverine who abandons every alliance he is in BEFORE a war breaks out, and people who surrender after taking massive damage. (terms usually aren't even given till at least 1 or 2 rounds are done). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramirus Maximus Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Since we seem to be having 'that discussion' again: Karma 'high command' does not have any official power and cannot tell any alliances what to do. Which is exactly what we told everyone, over and over. For peace negotiations, you should talk to the alliances that are defeating you, as it is them you will need to get to sign the surrender. I think maybe that's a bit too complicated Bob. However, there is an informal high command which helped to organise grand scale strategic decisions and inter-front aid. See my post + the ones I forgot (Roq!). If you do not know who you should talk to, one of the people in this group should be able to help you. Or really anyone you talk to in .gov of major Karma alliances. Again, I believe whoever in NPO told you they tried to contact Karma command and could not, was lying to you, because it simply wouldn't be that hard. Moreover they (NPO) have been contacted many times by us, and have chosen to reject us each time. Further evidence that they know exactly who we are. Your information is incorrect mhawk. As Karma is not a formal entity, membership can be unclear, which probably explains the contradictory information you have been given. Well, as demonstrated above, it's not unclear at all, and never has been. The "contradictory" information is simply from NPO telling him lies. They especially have known who we are from the beginning, as we have initiated contact with them several times. It's just more hogwash. Notice to former IRON members who decided to surrender and become POW's:Don't come home. You're not welcome. Good luck to you, you'll need it. This post wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob the slayer Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) well done PoW's if your looking for a new home TUF would be happy to bring you into the folds. Edited June 10, 2009 by bob the slayer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Additionally one of the karma high command has stated he wants all of tpf held in permanent war and that we will be paying for all the reps caused from their techraiding of alliances? I'd like to know who that gentleman was, given that in relevant discussions yesterday the exact opposite sentiment was expressed. Really, though, it has been expressed repeatedly that any sort of Karma High Command was involved in higher level planning and execution only. If you want to rant and rave at anyone, point it at all of the microalliances who whined and complained to anyone that would listen that their sovereignty was being infringed upon and that they would rather die a 1000 deaths than having an overarching command structure. They're the reason you don't have a unified body to speak to. Sure, there were a number of larger alliances also involved in this, but for some reason they don't stick out in my mind as much. That is why you noticed my role diminished as the war dragged on - it got tiring to have a bunch of ingrates complaining for the sake of hearing their own voice. So again - if you want to express your frustration at anyone, direct it to them. That being said, renewed efforts have been made to get peace moving along on all fronts, and actually prior to your posting began in this thread great strides were taken on the NPO front. As TPF has expressed a disinterest in any sort of discussion until the NPO is out, we're pretty much waiting on you over here in MK/PC/NV/etc land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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