Looks like the NPO's making it's counter strike

[Rickyman1984]

NPO played the game, they played it too well.

Right and wrong (fair and unfair) is always subjective.

I think we are ganna miss them.

The attitude that "right and wrong is always subjective" seems to validate the notion that people have license to do anything they please regardless of how it impacts others. While it's true that morality is subjective to an extent, I think the majority of Planet Bob has come to the conclusion that NPO has acted wrongly on EZI and Viceroys (among other things) and that things such as EZI are "immoral" and shouldn't be allowed. That doesn't mean that NPO is pure evil, it just means that they've made mistakes and they should own up to them at the conclusion of the war.

Hopefully being on the other side of a stomping will allow them to reevaluate and become stronger in the end. They've done some very innovative and worthwhile things (protection of the red sphere) and maybe they need to be humbled a little to take the next step as an alliance.

[Ivan Moldavi]

Does anyone really think the mass peace modes are about the NPO higher-ups hiding in peacemode until this blows over?

I mean, them dragging out a nuclear war as long as they can by doing waves to make it as painful as possible to the enemy wouldn't make sense at all.

This is a smart man.

Can I poach you from IRON?

[Adrian LaCroix]

NPO played the game, they played it too well.

Right and wrong (fair and unfair) is always subjective.

I think we are ganna miss them.

I reject your moral relativism, kind sir.

[SpacingOutMan]

Does anyone really think the mass peace modes are about the NPO higher-ups hiding in peacemode until this blows over?

I mean, them dragging out a nuclear war as long as they can by doing waves to make it as painful as possible to the enemy wouldn't make sense at all.

If only more people had the same logic you had... we'd have far more informative people.

[Captain Flinders]

Does anyone really think the mass peace modes are about the NPO higher-ups hiding in peacemode until this blows over?

I mean, them dragging out a nuclear war as long as they can by doing waves to make it as painful as possible to the enemy wouldn't make sense at all.

Normally I'd see the logic behind such a move , but with the amount of nations and NS hitting the NPO, I can't see it making that much of a difference. It certainly will not make the difference between victory and defeat.

[Fort Pitt]

I was impressed until I realized the page settings were small.

this... 30 wars, yeah its high nations, but its 30 wars when they had over 200 in hippy mode

[ChairmanHal]

Does anyone really think the mass peace modes are about the NPO higher-ups hiding in peacemode until this blows over?

I mean, them dragging out a nuclear war as long as they can by doing waves to make it as painful as possible to the enemy wouldn't make sense at all.

Sending waves of troops against a stone wall made perfect sense to this man.

[Mandrivia_2]

This peace mode taunting is really ridiculous. The guys in there, the ones with half a brain, understand some nations stay in peace mode to recover, some to bring aid later, some to bring recovery aid after war and others to come as a second wave.

While I can see this as a tactic to get them to come out, I hope none of you believe what you are saying.

That would be fine, except for the fact that NPO FORCED nations on the opposing side to leave peace mode during past wars. Either live up to your own standards, or go ahead and make an imperial decree stating that the NPO is an alliance of cowards.

[Haflinger]

That would be fine, except for the fact that NPO FORCED nations on the opposing side to leave peace mode during past wars. Either live up to your own standards, or go ahead and make an imperial decree stating that the NPO is an alliance of cowards.

Once, in one war. Can we please skip the hyperbole?

[Heft]

Normally I'd see the logic behind such a move , but with the amount of nations and NS hitting the NPO, I can't see it making that much of a difference. It certainly will not make the difference between victory and defeat.

Yea, when everyone declared on FAN they should have just hung around and been like "lol screw this" because it's not like using tactics made any difference in their fight against an overwhelmingly larger force. Silly people and their "historical precedence" and "logic" and "rational thinking."

[Chief Savage Man]

Once, in one war. Can we please skip the hyperbole?

I only murdered a man once, in one state. That means I'm not guilty. Right?

[Heft]

I only murdered a man once, in one state. That means I'm not guilty. Right?

This suggests the possibility of murdering a man once, in multiple states. This intrigues me and I believe warrants further exploration.

[Captain Flinders]

Yea, when everyone declared on FAN they should have just hung around and been like "lol screw this" because it's not like using tactics made any difference in their fight against an overwhelmingly larger force. Silly people and their "historical precedence" and "logic" and "rational thinking."

Your sarcasm is detected but hugely inappropriate. Did the tactic help FAN with their war? No offense to FAN of course. I'm just saying that holding a relative handful of top nations back hoping their second wave attacks are going to make the difference is kinda like spitting up at the rain thinking you'll make the clouds run in fear.

[Lord GVChamp]

Hellz yeah, I got declared on by Bakunin.

This is gonna be fun

[Essenia]

Yea, when everyone declared on FAN they should have just hung around and been like "lol screw this" because it's not like using tactics made any difference in their fight against an overwhelmingly larger force. Silly people and their "historical precedence" and "logic" and "rational thinking."

Heft, what are you talking about. The only reason NPO nations are in peace mode is to protect the infrastructure of the dilber clique.

[Mussolandia]

Or, to put it another way, lack of appropriate retribution is just as "unfair" as excessive retribution. If the idea is to balance the scales, dipping too far in either direction is failure.

You are smart, for a woman. A perfect, two sentence summary of what the New Pacific Order should face. I will not fault Karma if they decide to impose harsh terms on the New Pacific Order. They are the core of the Hegemony and they must be decisively defeated if the world is to be altered.

And to the folks claiming peace mode is a way to protect the leadership... it is ridiculous. You will soon see all the IOs fighting. Their source of power is influence, not [ooc]pixels[/ooc]. I know for a fact most of them don't give a crap about their nations. This is not to say all of the members are of the same opinion: I expect most resignations to come from infrastructure-concerned citizens, particularly those who at some point were members of the Unjust Path.

[shahenshah]

Or, to put it another way, lack of appropriate retribution is just as "unfair" as excessive retribution. If the idea is to balance the scales, dipping too far in either direction is failure.

If the idea is to balance the retribution to the past 'excessive' retribution else it becomes 'unfair' then do we have a new precedent for excessive retributions? Its a cycle that will never stop, This is exactly what I believe has already happened in the past. people however do have an opportunity to stop it, those that had it before them, see how that ended. I feel there is a perception gap that needs to be addressed. I shall attempt to in another thread.

Edited May 3, 2009 by shahenshah

[Heft]

Your sarcasm is detected but hugely inappropriate. Did the tactic help FAN with their war? No offense to FAN of course. I'm just saying that holding a relative handful of top nations back hoping their second wave attacks are going to make the difference is kinda like spitting up at the rain thinking you'll make the clouds run in fear.

It is always beneficial to do the maximum amount of damage to your enemies as possible, and even more beneficial to make it clear that for your enemies to continue the fight they will have to endure as much damage as possible.

[Mozaffar]

If the idea is to balance the retribution to the past 'excessive' retribution else it becomes 'unfair' then do we have a new precedent for excessive retributions? Its a cycle that will never stop, This is exactly what I believe has already happened in the past. people however do have an opportunity to stop it, those that had it before them, see how that ended. I feel there is a perception gap that needs to be addressed. I shall attempt to in another thread.

I'm glad that finally the Hegemony is seeing just why their past actions are so wrong and why this war is necessary. I have seen so many of it's members change in a matter of weeks if not days, from justifying PZI to condemning it, from supporting GATO being a viceroyalty (until very recently) to condemning the practice and I think that this war has shown them the light.

[Qaianna]

I'm glad that finally the Hegemony is seeing just why their past actions are so wrong and why this war is necessary. I have seen so many of it's members change in a matter of weeks if not days, from justifying PZI to condemning it, from supporting GATO being a viceroyalty (until very recently) to condemning the practice and I think that this war has shown them the light.

Anyone want to lay odds that if anyone from a 'Hegemony' government actually try to embrace these changes publically, they'd be mercilessly jeered?

As far as whether peace mode is an honourable tactic ... well, I'm finding this thread, and my own experiences, rather enlightening on the uses. My opinion? Currently trivial.

[Newhotness]

Took em long enough

[BDRocks]

If the idea is to balance the retribution to the past 'excessive' retribution else it becomes 'unfair' then do we have a new precedent for excessive retributions? Its a cycle that will never stop, This is exactly what I believe has already happened in the past. people however do have an opportunity to stop it, those that had it before them, see how that ended. I feel there is a perception gap that needs to be addressed. I shall attempt to in another thread.

Where were these comments during the noCB war. You play the all mighty, we need to change CN now. Only because you are now on the losing end and facing the destruction of your pixels/alliance. Hey you had your chance to end the cycle, you didn't take it because you benefited it from it. Maybe when you are on the winning end next time, if that comes, you can try to change it again.

[Captain Fatbeard]

This will be NPO's last act of tyranny, and I can drink to that.

o/ KARMA

[Orkules]

Normally I'd see the logic behind such a move , but with the amount of nations and NS hitting the NPO, I can't see it making that much of a difference. It certainly will not make the difference between victory and defeat.

It can always mean a difference. Even if it's just a difference between stinging your opponent from as many angles and as many times as possible before being ground to dust as opposed simply being obliterated by him outright. This in effect a guerrilla war, though far less effective here. They're making us pay and dragging things out (looking at it from a tactical prospective and ignoring the possibility of them just hiding which is possible but unlikely). It's playing smart and painful. It's what I'd do in their situation.

Note: This is not always the best way to fight. The smaller alliances can't make this tactic work really, or not in any scale that matters at all. Look at how CnG alliances fought in the No CB war. We more or less "BANZAI" charged and let loose with everything we had to cause the maximum amount of destruction. It was more effective for our size. For NPO, this is.

However, my main objection to their use of this tactic is how they have punished others in the past for using it. Threatening GATO peace mode nations with perma-ZI, refusing to allow FAN to surrender for using peace mode...things like that. You cannot insult and threaten people for using a tactic and then try to use it yourself and not expect ridicule and maybe even punishment. It's your own damn fault at that point.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Orkules

[Captain Fatbeard]

However, my main objection to their use of this tactic is how they have punished others in the past for using it. Threatening GATO peace mode nations with perma-ZI, refusing to allow FAN to surrender for using peace mode...things like that. You cannot insult and threaten people for using a tactic and then try to use it yourself and not expect ridicule and maybe even punishment. It's your own damn fault at that point.

Now that you've jogged my memory of some of the most heinous war crimes and hypocrisies commited on the internets I think I'll have to change my view on permazi or maybe just make an exception for NPO and say I will lose all faith in Karma and cyberlife if Pacifica isn't permazied.

Edit: also, lol your name is orkules. Epic.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Captain Fatbeard