This Week in Pacifica

[Nintenderek]

Ummm, The DoW did not say "The Alpha and Beta Battalions of the New Pacific Order declare war on Jarheads." It said, "The New Pacific Order declares was on Jarheads." Big difference.

Yes, but by the NPO definition of open warfare from earlier, it is not an alliance wide war, even if it was declared as one.

[Corinan]

My definition of "alliance wide war" is one where it actually involves the entire alliance.

[Ejayrazz]

We still on this subject of Corinan? Because technicality nonsense is redundant. He didn't lose honor by leaving during an important war, it is really, really getting tiresome. Seriously, people just want war in any shape or form. He has the right to leave his alliance, NPO should and probably is aware he didn't leave during an important war (Higher ups, hopefully). Seriously, new argument please? I BEG SOMEONE.

Edited March 10, 2009 by Ejayrazz

[cookavich]

Ummm, The DoW did not say "The Alpha and Beta Battalions of the New Pacific Order declare war on Jarheads." It said, "The New Pacific Order declares was on Jarheads." Big difference.

HRH, if you left Polar right now, no one would say "OMG we are at war deserter" because you are far out of the strongest Jarheads range. I am thankful that Moo is in charge, and not some of those people featured in TWiP...except for that Fallen fellow. He is cool.

[Azaghul]

Ummm, The DoW did not say "The Alpha and Beta Battalions of the New Pacific Order declare war on Jarheads." It said, "The New Pacific Order declares was on Jarheads." Big difference.

Not in any practical sense.

The intent of that comment is, and probably should have been written as, this: "This week a thread that allows our members to speak their minds demonstrates to Schattenman et al for purpooses oof their political spin..."

This line of criticism that allowing certain viewpoints to be discussed is endorsing them is pretty silly. Very often (I would say most of the time) debate and discussion allow for reasonable concerns to be addressed and help to bring members over to the leaders point of view. Bottling up disagreements and dissent by refusing to allow people to discuss them rarely works.

[King Srqt]

I have to agree with Doppelganger on this one. He has offered to continue to assist the NPO in this war for the purpose of financial aid which is the only role he would be able to fill if he was still wearing the NPO AA. He hasn't really deserted anything since he is still fufilling any obligation he could have in this "war".

And this is coming from a guy who has a history of being pretty critical of him in the past.

[Schattenmann]

The intent of that comment is, and probably should have been written as, this: "This week a thread that allows our members to speak their minds demonstrates to Schattenman et al for purpooses oof their political spin..."

...that NPO members are able to run wild when their opinion s happen to coincide with the opinions of the government."

My definition of "alliance wide war" is one where it actually involves the entire alliance.

SHUT UP TRAITOR! BYAAAAHHHHHH!

[Minilla Island]

Did you take part in the formation of that declaration? I am aware that Polar is also at war with Jarheads but from what I have gathered the affairs of New Pacific Order nations, and their decisions, are not at the same level of concern to the New Polar Order as they once were.

So where are you hoping to go with this continued line of interrogation?

Ivan, My problem is not with you. Without you, we would not have the Orders. I would not have a home. In fact, if you read our BR, you of all people should know where I stand on NpO-NSO relations. And, yes, we are aiding Pacifica. And, yes, I gave aid to that effort.

[Ivan Moldavi]

Ivan, My problem is not with you. Without you, we would not have the Orders. I would not have a home. In fact, if you read our BR, you of all people should know where I stand on NpO-NSO relations. And, yes, we are aiding Pacifica. And, yes, I gave aid to that effort.

Right, but as you have been told, Doppelganger, Sith Lord, has also offered aid to Pacifica for this war effort, so I fail to see your point.

My point, however, without putting too fine a point on it, is that if you have a problem with Doppelganger then you have a problem with me by default. That is just how it goes.

Anyway, it is late and I am logging out. Have fun people.

[Ejayrazz]

Ivan, My problem is not with you. Without you, we would not have the Orders. I would not have a home. In fact, if you read our BR, you of all people should know where I stand on NpO-NSO relations. And, yes, we are aiding Pacifica. And, yes, I gave aid to that effort.

You'd have a home - in a different alliance.

Corinan is fine, people are blowing his situation out of proportion.

[Waterana]

What mob?

There are around 900 nations in the NPO, how many of them expressed their opinions in that thread? Note the word opinions.

Let me burst the 'mob' bubble. The NSO doesn't worry me. I don't see it or Ivan as a threat. Don't know him at all, and have never worked with him, but I find it very hard to believe that someone who helped found the Order, lead it in it's early months including through a devestating major war then worked hard to rebuild from that devestation, and has never, to my knowledge, said or done anything ever with the express purpose of harming the Order, would now found a new alliance and attempt to do just that.

So there you have it. No hate, no fear, no frothing at the mouth. Sorry to disappoint those of you convinced all Pacificans are brainwashed drones who all think the same.

[Fallen Fool]

Did you take part in the formation of that declaration? I am aware that Polar is also at war with Jarheads but from what I have gathered the affairs of New Pacific Order nations, and their decisions, are not at the same level of concern to the New Polar Order as they once were.

The New Polar Order has in fact assumed some of the burden of the Jarheads conflict (there are, afterall, only a finite amount of active, low level nations in any given alliance) in an effort to aid our allies at the New Pacific Order, but we were not, to my knowledge, invovled in any formal declaration of war because, as far as I'm aware, we felt it was unnecessary.

And yes, in my experience the New Polar Order has made serious efforts to remain aloof of the Pacifican decision-making process.

[Felix von Agnu]

I honestly believe that the war will end when IRON surrenders or withdraws to stop the attacks on their comms array. And I think that will be a sobering day.

I hope that this is not the case. It would be rather sad to give up on a war because of an OOC action taken. I'm not sure if this is the first time a war would stop because of OOC actions, but it would set a frightening precedent.

[Goose]

I hope that this is not the case. It would be rather sad to give up on a war because of an OOC action taken. I'm not sure if this is the first time a war would stop because of OOC actions, but it would set a frightening precedent.

I'd consider the Unjust War to have basically ended due to OOC actions. The despicable and vicious OOC attacks from the GOONS effectively destroyed the support of their allies and the morale of The Unjust.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

This is the second time I left. I thought you knew me better than that?

Unless I'm mistaken, you've left the NPO three times. You left in 2007 and had your stint in GOONS and then returned at some point after your surrender during the UjW. You had your tanty alongside Doitzel last year and left again prior to the NpO being stomped. Now you've left them again for the NSO. This history of alliance-hopping doesn't strike me as the mark of a particularly loyal sort of character, judging solely on what has been presented to the public here on the OWF.

Edited March 10, 2009 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz

[TrotskysRevenge]

Umm....Excuse me, what? There are Imperial Officers in thar, and other individuals who are expressing various unpleasant thoughts in the direction of NSO and Ivan Moldavi. It isn't one man at all, it's several some with either rank or authority.

So...no. Yeah, run that by me again. Also, The Emperor Of All Pacifica, Moo-Cows With Guns, Ain't Nothing to #$@$ Wif, just said that the alliance as a whole considered Ivan a threat. Until he runs a correction, I think that trumps anyone below Emperor/Emperor Emeritus status for what the "opinion" in the Body Republic is.

Edit: Ivan, I don't know you very well, but I suspect that you are wary against positing positive situations in place of bad ones that may likely be the truth. I applaud your game face however; and the positive spin you've put on this (and yes, I do think you realize all the dangers, and you've done quite well, in my eyes at least, to defend yourself against the Mob) and your continuing leadership of NSO.

I did not say the alliance as a whole considers Ivan threat; four posts out of an alliance of 900 hardly counts as the alliance as a whole; one IO out of 11 does not constitute a majority of IOs.

Perhaps if Shattenmann's agents had bothered to take screenshots of the responses to my post concerning our response to the NSO you might get a much more accurate picture of the attitude of the Body Republic; it was overwhelmingly positive. But that wouldn't have fit his propaganda aims.

[Fireandthepassion]

The screenshots are obviously old Schattenmann. Please do better next time.

No seriously, best issue yet, keep them coming.

I respectfully disagree. I still feel that last weeks is the best issue. That isn't to say that this wasn't enjoyable. Comments about Ivan coming back were to be expected. I was hoping for a bit more juice when it came to NSO though.

[ooc]TWiP does provide for an entertaining 3 hour bloc of "television" (I actually do go into the mindset that TWiP is on actually TV). I really do look forward to something at 9 o'clock now after House and Heroes. Thank you for doing this on a weekly basis Schattenmann.[/ooc]

[Felix von Agnu]

I'd consider the Unjust War to have basically ended due to OOC actions. The despicable and vicious OOC attacks from the GOONS effectively destroyed the support of their allies and the morale of The Unjust.

I wasn't around for the UJW to be honest, so I cannot speak to the viciousness or style of the OOC attacks. However, DDOS attacks are an actual crime in RL. I really do hate seeing people use these sorts of things in a war in an attempt to win/get peace/cease attacks.

Back on topic, interesting read at least. If nothing else it cured some boredom for a while.

[Goose]

I wasn't around for the UJW to be honest, so I cannot speak to the viciousness or style of the OOC attacks. However, DDOS attacks are an actual crime in RL. I really do hate seeing people use these sorts of things in a war in an attempt to win/get peace/cease attacks.

Back on topic, interesting read at least. If nothing else it cured some boredom for a while.

They were personal attacks against someone on the opposite side. Quite disgusting.

I must agree that this report is, if nothing else, entertaining.

[juslen]

I'll be reading the next installment. Apparently so will most of Planet Bob, given the number of people that appears looking at this topic.

Schatt, you are in danger of becoming the Rush Limbaugh of Planet Bob.

I would take that as a compliment.

Schatt, nice issue

Also.. Ivans post was impressive

Good to see people still honor their past and acknowledge their friends.

Good luck with NSO

:R&R:

[shahenshah]

I did not say the alliance as a whole considers Ivan threat; four posts out of an alliance of 900 hardly counts as the alliance as a whole; one IO out of 11 does not constitute a majority of IOs.

Perhaps if Shattenmann's agents had bothered to take screenshots of the responses to my post concerning our response to the NSO you might get a much more accurate picture of the attitude of the Body Republic; it was overwhelmingly positive. But that wouldn't have fit his propaganda aims.

That ^

Out of context journalism = phail.

[uaciaut]

This post sounds more factual than the original opinion piece.

Now watch how this post will be twisted, ignored and confused with other posts.

I believe Schat and co weren't trying to incriminate moo with anything but rather point out how the pacifican culture/lower gov is encouraging a "yarrrr lynch mob" mood which often has no base.

I mean trying to get someone zi'd as deserter when he's over 50k ns and you're fighting 50+ 300 NS nations?

Seriously?

[shahenshah]

I believe Schat and co weren't trying to incriminate moo with anything but rather point out how the pacifican culture/lower gov is encouraging a "yarrrr lynch mob" mood which often has no base.

I mean trying to get someone zi'd as deserter when he's over 50k ns and you're fighting 50+ 300 NS nations?

Seriously?

Can you tell me how many lower .gov members out of total and how many general members out of total were advocating that?

Also I'm sure you will not consider less than .1% of member body as representative of any organisation's 'culture'.

Thank You

[Michael McBride]

That ^

Out of context journalism = phail.

Oh please, get off your high horse. This isn't journalism. This is the tabloids. It's entertainment. Misconstruing what happened is what TWiP was MEANT to do. It's what it aims to do. Schatt is trying to stir up drama and a little excitement, something he's done a damn good job of so far. You want real journalism? Pick up a flipping newspaper. You will NEVER find real journalism in Planet Bob, ever. Jesus Tap Dancing Ivan Moldavi Christ.

Also, to my original point, TWiP seems to be getting under the skin of the NPO a little bit... don't believe I've ever seen this much vehement defending of their position from the upper brass in the NPO for a long, long time.

[Tygaland]

Can you tell me how many lower .gov members out of total and how many general members out of total were advocating that?

Also I'm sure you will not consider less than .1% of member body as representative of any organisation's 'culture'.

Thank You

I think someone earlier (Branimir?) said that is was Pacifican culture to lynch deserters during alliance wars.

EDIT: It was Branimir. He said anyone who left the NPO during war was deemed a traitor as part of Pacifican culture.

Edited March 10, 2009 by Tygaland