Corinan Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 That ginger has nothing on me I challenge you to a pose-off, good sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coursca Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 I honestly believe that the war will end when IRON surrenders or withdraws to stop the attacks on their comms array. And I think that will be a sobering day. Not while I'm a Councilor. Keep dreaming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esukaresu Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 In this case, I would be more apt to agree with ChileRilleno's assessment. I would've never thought with that viking avatar! But really, how much aid are you going to need fighting nations that's like 1k in NS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Look, you cannot blame Pacificans for being ticked at those who left during an Alliance-wide war. Why don't you ask how the average Polar felt when people abandoned it when war was coming? The feeling is not good. As for those who argue that Jarheads was so far out of target range that nobody would miss people, that is nothing but a red herring. There is a lot that a big fatty can do to help the small-fry in a war like this. I gave $3 million and 2K in troops to one of my small-fry nations to help in the current effort. As for the argument that Corinan made that "They are way out of range" is pure nonsense. Look, I came in late 2007 and never had the privilege of working with Ivan. But I do know that without Ivan, the Orders as we now know them would not exist. However, as much as I believe can be learned from him, if I was in Corinan's shoes, I would NEVER have abandoned my brothers in wartime. I do not care that he is sending oodles of money and tech, the very fact that he turned his back on his brothers in a time of war should speak volumes. In this case, I would be more apt to agree with ChileRilleno's assessment. He can still send money from another alliance and I seriously doubt NPO has a shortage of people able and ready to aid their active small people fighting. There are 107 active wars between NPO and Jarheads, which probably is about 50 or so NPO dudes at war. Aiding all of them 3 million (which at that level is way more than enough) might require 1-2 dozen banks, something NPO should easily have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Look, you cannot blame Pacificans for being ticked at those who left during an Alliance-wide war. Why don't you ask how the average Polar felt when people abandoned it when war was coming? The feeling is not good. As for those who argue that Jarheads was so far out of target range that nobody would miss people, that is nothing but a red herring. There is a lot that a big fatty can do to help the small-fry in a war like this. I gave $3 million and 2K in troops to one of my small-fry nations to help in the current effort. As for the argument that Corinan made that "They are way out of range" is pure nonsense. Look, I came in late 2007 and never had the privilege of working with Ivan. But I do know that without Ivan, the Orders as we now know them would not exist. However, as much as I believe can be learned from him, if I was in Corinan's shoes, I would NEVER have abandoned my brothers in wartime. I do not care that he is sending oodles of money and tech, the very fact that he turned his back on his brothers in a time of war should speak volumes. In this case, I would be more apt to agree with ChileRilleno's assessment. I'm actually offended that you're comparing their war with Jarheads with what we went through in the noCB war. They also did offer to send aid to the little guys fighting Jarheads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deruvian Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 He can still send money from another alliance Which he explicitly stated that he was willing to do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Moldavi Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Did not Moo just say something in regards to that? "You need to make up your mind guys. One week you are appalled and aghast that we close and move threads at times. This week a thread that allows our members to speak their minds demonstrates that the alliance as a whole hates the NSO and considers Ivan a threat. I would have thought that it indicates that we do allow people to freely express their opinions."-MooI would say that, at least amongst the BR, that would be turning away from Ivan. I assumed he meant to have a "does not" in there somewhere based on the posts from Branimir and a few others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minilla Island Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 There's a huge difference between Pacifica's position during this war and Polar's position during the Coalition war, I feel you actually have a reason to be upset at those who abandoned Polar while you were down and out, Pacifica is nowhere near down and out during this beat down of n00bs, nor are 95% of Pacifica's nations ever going to be in range of these targets.Schatt, had you messaged them for anything other than the lulz I would have been concerned with what changed about you. Are you telling me that those nations cannot give money and troops to those in Alpha and Beta Battalions? There are many ways in which you can participate in the war and not pick up one target. Think about it? What better way to help a nation grow during wartime by a steady infusion of war aid from bigger countries? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMatt Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Look, you cannot blame Pacificans for being ticked at those who left during an Alliance-wide war. Why don't you ask how the average Polar felt when people abandoned it when war was coming? The feeling is not good. As for those who argue that Jarheads was so far out of target range that nobody would miss people, that is nothing but a red herring. There is a lot that a big fatty can do to help the small-fry in a war like this. I gave $3 million and 2K in troops to one of my small-fry nations to help in the current effort. I'm more inclined to agree with the group who are saying leaving NPO during the war with Jarheads is fine. It always hurts when someone leaves your alliance, but really, when you're fighting a bunch of nations whose average NS is 200, there really isn't anything a large nation can do. You say aid a nation who's fighting? sure, and Corinan did mention he'd be more than happy to give war aid on the way out, but that's more of a gesture of goodwill than really necessary for an NPO victory against Jarheads. Labeling someone a deserter in this context doesn't fit. It only fits if they affect war morale, or by leaving they are making a difference on the battlefield by not fighting, neither of which apply in this case. I've seen this happen in other similar contexts (and seen from 3 separate perspectives), and have always been of the same opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margrave Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 I assumed he meant to have a "does not" in there somewhere based on the posts from Branimir and a few others. While I would certainly hope so, I can only take meaning from the words that are written, and it seems kind of black-and-white there. I do take comfort from the fact that the opinions and ideas of even Imperial Officers are most certainly NOT the opinions of the Emperor, and I believe his writing reflects that. I could be wrong, but there you have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Are you telling me that those nations cannot give money and troops to those in Alpha and Beta Battalions? There are many ways in which you can participate in the war and not pick up one target. Think about it? What better way to help a nation grow during wartime by a steady infusion of war aid from bigger countries? I like how you ignore the half dozen people who pointed out that he can, offered to, and will be sending money to help out NPO's small nations even though he's now in NSO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willaim Kreiger Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Are you telling me that those nations cannot give money and troops to those in Alpha and Beta Battalions? There are many ways in which you can participate in the war and not pick up one target. Think about it? What better way to help a nation grow during wartime by a steady infusion of war aid from bigger countries? There arn't enough aid slots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minilla Island Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 I'm actually offended that you're comparing their war with Jarheads with what we went through in the noCB war.They also did offer to send aid to the little guys fighting Jarheads. Hizzy, I love you, but you missed the point. This was not a tech raid. This is an Alliance-wide war. You do not turn tail and run in an Alliance-wide war. That is the point I am making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 So Viktor, is this the third or fourth time you've left the NPO? Those Pacficans sure must be a forgiving bunch. This is the second time I left. I thought you knew me better than that? Look, you cannot blame Pacificans for being ticked at those who left during an Alliance-wide war. Why don't you ask how the average Polar felt when people abandoned it when war was coming? The feeling is not good. As for those who argue that Jarheads was so far out of target range that nobody would miss people, that is nothing but a red herring. There is a lot that a big fatty can do to help the small-fry in a war like this. I gave $3 million and 2K in troops to one of my small-fry nations to help in the current effort. As for the argument that Corinan made that "They are way out of range" is pure nonsense. Look, I came in late 2007 and never had the privilege of working with Ivan. But I do know that without Ivan, the Orders as we now know them would not exist. However, as much as I believe can be learned from him, if I was in Corinan's shoes, I would NEVER have abandoned my brothers in wartime. I do not care that he is sending oodles of money and tech, the very fact that he turned his back on his brothers in a time of war should speak volumes. In this case, I would be more apt to agree with ChileRilleno's assessment. It's not an alliance wide war. Only Pacificas Alpha and Beta battalions are involved in any warfare. Also, I offered aid in my resignation and have continued to offer it. Pacifica has not taken me up on my offer yet. From this I can conclude that they truly did not require my services in this conflict. The deserter label fails to stick to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 I assumed he meant to have a "does not" in there somewhere based on the posts from Branimir and a few others. I dunno... I think it would really disprove his own point if that's what he meant. It seems his purpose with that was to show that people are allowed to post views contrary to the emperor's... and if his own view is one which favours NSO, then it would be logical to assume that the views he is talking about in that thread are not in favour of NSO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branimir Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 (edited) I would say that, at least amongst the BR, that would be turning away from Ivan. Emperor wanted to make a point, in regards to prior editions of Vox. Though as is evident even from the 4 screenies, no big uproar against Ivan exists among the BR members, or Vox would be posting much more juicier stuff then this and in a bigger quantity-- like somebody actually calling Ivan a traitor for example, or an open enemy, or etcetera. All we have here, honestly, is a knee jerk reaction of a Pacifican to a fear that a lot of comrades would leave for NSO and some then joining in in strict adherence to the principle of open warfare and leaving the Order during that period. I challenge you to a pose-off, good sir. You are on,...just after I get my beauty sleep. With that I am heading out. Night Edited March 10, 2009 by Branimir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Moldavi Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 I dunno... I think it would really disprove his own point if that's what he meant. It seems his purpose with that was to show that people are allowed to post views contrary to the emperor's... and if his own view is one which favours NSO, then it would be logical to assume that the views he is talking about in that thread are not in favour of NSO. You are right, that could easily be the situation. Regardless, I am glad to know that the Emperor rules in the New Pacific Order and that the mob mentality, which is fickle and changes with the wind, does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taget Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 You have to click the images to enlarge them. But, yeah, sometimes they're blurry or whatever--I get what the agents send. In case I wasn't clear I obviously meant the "larger" version you clicked on. But if you could request they send it a little bigger next time that would appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margrave Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 (edited) Emperor wanted to make a point, in regards to prior editions of Vox. Though as is evident even from the 4 screenies, no big uproar against Ivan exists among the BR members, or Vox would be posting much more juicier stuff then this and in a bigger quantity-- like somebody actually calling Ivan a traitor for example, or an open enemy, or etcetera. All we have here, honestly, is a knee jerk reaction of a Pacifican to a fear that a lot of comrades would leave for NSO and some then joining in in strict adherence to the principle of open warfare and leaving the Order during that period. Umm....Excuse me, what? There are Imperial Officers in thar, and other individuals who are expressing various unpleasant thoughts in the direction of NSO and Ivan Moldavi. It isn't one man at all, it's several some with either rank or authority. So...no. Yeah, run that by me again. Also, The Emperor Of All Pacifica, Moo-Cows With Guns, Ain't Nothing to #$@$ Wif, just said that the alliance as a whole considered Ivan a threat. Until he runs a correction, I think that trumps anyone below Emperor/Emperor Emeritus status for what the "opinion" in the Body Republic is. Edit: Ivan, I don't know you very well, but I suspect that you are wary against positing positive situations in place of bad ones that may likely be the truth. I applaud your game face however; and the positive spin you've put on this (and yes, I do think you realize all the dangers, and you've done quite well, in my eyes at least, to defend yourself against the Mob) and your continuing leadership of NSO. Edited March 10, 2009 by Margrave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minilla Island Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 It's not an alliance wide war. Only Pacificas Alpha and Beta battalions are involved in any warfare. Also, I offered aid in my resignation and have continued to offer it. Pacifica has not taken me up on my offer yet. From this I can conclude that they truly did not require my services in this conflict. The deserter label fails to stick to me. Ummm, The DoW did not say "The Alpha and Beta Battalions of the New Pacific Order declare war on Jarheads." It said, "The New Pacific Order declares was on Jarheads." Big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrotskysRevenge Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Did not Moo just say something in regards to that? "You need to make up your mind guys. One week you are appalled and aghast that we close and move threads at times. This week a thread that allows our members to speak their minds demonstrates that the alliance as a whole hates the NSO and considers Ivan a threat. I would have thought that it indicates that we do allow people to freely express their opinions."-MooI would say that, at least amongst the BR, that would be turning away from Ivan. The intent of that comment is, and probably should have been written as, this: "This week a thread that allows our members to speak their minds demonstrates to Schattenman et al for purpooses oof their political spin..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Moldavi Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Ummm, The DoW did not say "The Alpha and Beta Battalions of the New Pacific Order declare war on Jarheads." It said, "The New Pacific Order declares was on Jarheads." Big difference. Did you take part in the formation of that declaration? I am aware that Polar is also at war with Jarheads but from what I have gathered the affairs of New Pacific Order nations, and their decisions, are not at the same level of concern to the New Polar Order as they once were. So where are you hoping to go with this continued line of interrogation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branimir Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 (edited) Umm....Excuse me, what? Exactly what you read. So...no. Yeah, run that by me again. Also, The Emperor Of All Pacifica, Moo-Cows With Guns, Ain't Nothing to #$@$ Wif, just said that the alliance as a whole considered Ivan a threat. Until he runs a correction, I think that trumps anyone below Emperor/Emperor Emeritus status for what the "opinion" in the Body Republic is. Margrave, you are getting in my way to my beauty sleep so I can battle the ginger, and with what--this? It should be clear by now, that it is of an very obvious nature that there are some missing words in Emperors post, in the part where he wanted to prove a point in regards to Vox priors editions. While an mistake, its nothing much more. But if you have nothing better by all means, do hang on it. edit: Emperor clarifies above. Edited March 10, 2009 by Branimir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Ummm, The DoW did not say "The Alpha and Beta Battalions of the New Pacific Order declare war on Jarheads." It said, "The New Pacific Order declares was on Jarheads." Big difference. I see you totally avoided the fact that I said I've been offering aid since I left. OOC: When the United States declared war on Iraq, they did not move every single Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine unit into Iraq. They didn't need to, as it would have been major overkill. You see what I'm getting at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margrave Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 (edited) The intent of that comment is, and probably should have been written as, this: "This week a thread that allows our members to speak their minds demonstrates to Schattenman et al for purpooses oof their political spin..." Good that that is clarified, although the goof-up will still be worth political capital to someone somewhere. "Emperor Makes Honest Admission On Ivan-Hate!"-Voxian Press "Moo-Tang Clan says "NPO HATES IVAN!"-Populi Reader "KIIIILDOOOOZEERR"-The Tattler You see my point. Once again, glad the Emperor rules in Pacifica, rather than the Mob. Edited March 10, 2009 by Margrave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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