Complacency

[Azaghul]

 

The real point was that NPO made false promises to not push any kind of agenda that would have resulted in absurd, punitive measures against Umbrella or the coalition of alliances that fought on Umbrella's side in that war that C&G tried so desperately to make DH believe wasn't coming. Then when the time came for negotiating peace, the terms rolled out and everyone NPO's empty promises affected had every reason to either get angry and point out the blatant hypocrisy, putting considerable amount of pressure on the belligerents when that dirty laundry started seeing the daylight. C&G and OsRavan knew all along what was building up before EQ and what NPO was truly planning for, and they made their moves to secure a place in the post-war landscape which would follow, but even I believe OsRavan and ODN in general were legitimately taken aback by NPO and ultimately DuckRoll's decision to flip flop on their promises and that caused actual strife between them. Clearly being blatantly lied to by Brehon wasn't enough to keep OsRavan from abandoning the only allies that actually gave a damn about them and helped reintegrate them back into the global scene by signing with the ultimate instigator of the conflict, and definitely the biggest provocative influence that led to an aggressive war against ODN's closest allies though. 

 

As for Non Grata, they threatened to pull out of the war if DH et al. didn't accept whatever peace terms that we were offered that they felt were "fair". They had deliberately placed themselves in a position where they could play both sides and were ultimately burnt by that shortsighted decision. They had already been belligerent and two-faced toward MK and GOONS, constantly !@#$ talking us in private. That they didn't think we knew about that made it even more surreal when they came to me not long after EQ had ended asking for GOONS' support in goading Polaris into open conflict through their proxy, a little collective of rogues that called themselves Bear Force One, because they needed our ties to Umbrella and Umbrella's ties to TOP's sphere in order to guarantee the advantage. "If only we hadn't downgraded [the MDoAP] with you lol" - NG Triumvirate. My point being, Non Grata isn't new to deceptive, manipulative behaviors against their allies for their own well being. It was a treaty I was glad and still glad to have canceled because any relationship with Non Grata is simply toxic and unappealing to have for any longer than absolutely necessary.

I don't think it's fair to blame NPO for "pushing" terms when they said they wouldn't  For one, I think it's pretty clear that they were a voice in EQ against them and they eventually pushed grey peace terms through.  The problem before that point when they were offering terms with punitive measures was that they had to try to appease the other members of their coalition who wanted punitive terms.

[OsRavan]

 

Clearly being blatantly lied to by Brehon wasn't enough to keep OsRavan from abandoning the only allies that actually gave a damn about them and helped reintegrate them back into the global scene by signing with the ultimate instigator of the conflict, and definitely the biggest provocative influence that led to an aggressive war against ODN's closest allies though. 

 

Not that I agree with the rest of your post cause I dont... but that particularly stood out... ::tilts head::    Ummm what.  What allies did we abandon?  I hope you dont mean DH and MK as you seem to imply.... since I distinctly remember getting rolled for them heh.  In fact I remember breaking TOPS record for the most alliance dow's in that war.  I'm not even remotely able to figure out how you got "ODN abandoned their allies" from equilibrium.  When you consider all of our allies were on the sme side and we were fighting for them.  But hey.  And considering we were offered a chance to switch sides(months before  and after the start of both equilibrium and the recent war and didnt take it.  As well as pure white peace with no surrender in the middle of the war months before it ended.... i'm again not sure how you can claim we abandoned our allies.

Edited August 3, 2014 by OsRavan

[Goldie]

The "plan" for PB was do whatever we want and have the world tag along. But NG left because NG wanted to go one direction and they knew that it wasn't a direction that the rest of PB would want to go in. Years later, the rest of PB is still allied to each other, and NG has a different set. Not saying either of us were wrong for the directions we each wanted to go in, but NG left PB because of diverging FA desires, and anything else was just grease.

[TBRaiders]

The "plan" for PB was do whatever we want and have the world tag along. But NG left because NG wanted to go one direction and they knew that it wasn't a direction that the rest of PB would want to go in. Years later, the rest of PB is still allied to each other, and NG has a different set. Not saying either of us were wrong for the directions we each wanted to go in, but NG left PB because of diverging FA desires, and anything else was just grease.

To be fair, half of PB merged into NG, so 50% would still be allied to NG.

 

;)

[berbers]

The "plan" for PB was do whatever we want and have the world tag along. But NG left because NG wanted to go one direction and they knew that it wasn't a direction that the rest of PB would want to go in. Years later, the rest of PB is still allied to each other, and NG has a different set. Not saying either of us were wrong for the directions we each wanted to go in, but NG left PB because of diverging FA desires, and anything else was just grease.

 

Something seems off about this comment...

 

To be fair, half of PB merged into NG, so 50% would still be allied to NG.

 

;)

 

Oh yeah, this is it :D

[Groucho Marx]

Not that I agree with the rest of your post cause I dont... but that particularly stood out... ::tilts head::    Ummm what.  What allies did we abandon?  I hope you dont mean DH and MK as you seem to imply.... since I distinctly remember getting rolled for them heh.  In fact I remember breaking TOPS record for the most alliance dow's in that war.  I'm not even remotely able to figure out how you got "ODN abandoned their allies" from equilibrium.  When you consider all of our allies were on the sme side and we were fighting for them.  But hey.  And considering we were offered a chance to switch sides(months before  and after the start of both equilibrium and the recent war and didnt take it.  As well as pure white peace with no surrender in the middle of the war months before it ended.... i'm again not sure how you can claim we abandoned our allies.

You spent months before the war lying to us about NPO and DR's intentions while you personally helped inflame the tensions by making up ridiculous claims about Umbrellan aggression, siding against your own ally to boot. You lied to your membership, and to the rest of us in DH, about who was responsible for provoking the bad blood between NPO and Umbrella, you deliberately misled us about your own plans for the post-war period and you set yourself up to sign with all of our enemies as soon as EQ was over. Your best friend Brehon had been saying for months that he would roll over all of you in C&G to get at Umbrella and yet to you Umbrella were the scapegoats you used to turncoat because you were convinced Non Grata, NPO and IRON would be able to hold that unstable coalition together post-war. I can't tell you how many times everyone in DH laughed at you for trying to convince us that "NPO is the future!" when at the time their head of state was a foaming at the mouth drunkard who had absolutely no regard for his allies or in your case personally, his pawns. But you want a cookie because you didn't outright swap sides (or threaten to drop out in the middle of the conflict like Non Grata) before EQ. That's cute. You didn't need to cut and run then because you OsRavan had already made all of the arrangements necessary to guarantee yourself a place in the new world order without taking a public PR hit for being a two-faced, slimy, moral-when-convenient pile of trash that everyone already knows you are. It's just too bad for you that Brehon burned everything down in the poor way he handled his mouth, and the war.

[berbers]

You spent months before the war lying to us about NPO and DR's intentions while you personally helped inflame the tensions by making up ridiculous claims about Umbrellan aggression, siding against your own ally to boot. You lied to your membership, and to the rest of us in DH, about who was responsible for provoking the bad blood between NPO and Umbrella, you deliberately misled us about your own plans for the post-war period and you set yourself up to sign with all of our enemies as soon as EQ was over. Your best friend Brehon had been saying for months that he would roll over all of you in C&G to get at Umbrella and yet to you Umbrella were the scapegoats you used to turncoat because you were convinced Non Grata, NPO and IRON would be able to hold that unstable coalition together post-war. I can't tell you how many times everyone in DH laughed at you for trying to convince us that "NPO is the future!" when at the time their head of state was a foaming at the mouth drunkard who had absolutely no regard for his allies or in your case personally, his pawns. But you want a cookie because you didn't outright swap sides (or threaten to drop out in the middle of the conflict like Non Grata) before EQ. That's cute. You didn't need to cut and run then because you OsRavan had already made all of the arrangements necessary to guarantee yourself a place in the new world order without taking a public PR hit for being a two-faced, slimy, moral-when-convenient pile of trash that everyone already knows you are. It's just too bad for you that Brehon burned everything down in the poor way he handled his mouth, and the war.

 

You do realize ODN took one of the worse poundings in that war out of everyone?  IIRC they had one of the largest middle/upper tiers at the time and came out completely dismantled.  If that's abandoning your allies, I can't wait for them to abandon us :|

[Stewie]

Yep. Alliances who took the biggest pounding are the alliances who are being character assassinated.

Oh well.

[OsRavan]

You spent months before the war lying to us about NPO and DR's intentions while you personally helped inflame the tensions by making up ridiculous claims about Umbrellan aggression, siding against your own ally to boot. You lied to your membership, and to the rest of us in DH, about who was responsible for provoking the bad blood between NPO and Umbrella, you deliberately misled us about your own plans for the post-war period and you set yourself up to sign with all of our enemies as soon as EQ was over. Your best friend Brehon had been saying for months that he would roll over all of you in C&G to get at Umbrella and yet to you Umbrella were the scapegoats you used to turncoat because you were convinced Non Grata, NPO and IRON would be able to hold that unstable coalition together post-war. I can't tell you how many times everyone in DH laughed at you for trying to convince us that "NPO is the future!" when at the time their head of state was a foaming at the mouth drunkard who had absolutely no regard for his allies or in your case personally, his pawns. But you want a cookie because you didn't outright swap sides (or threaten to drop out in the middle of the conflict like Non Grata) before EQ. That's cute. You didn't need to cut and run then because you OsRavan had already made all of the arrangements necessary to guarantee yourself a place in the new world order without taking a public PR hit for being a two-faced, slimy, moral-when-convenient pile of trash that everyone already knows you are. It's just too bad for you that Brehon burned everything down in the poor way he handled his mouth, and the war.

 

Ehr no i dont think I lied to anyone lol.  Really, the fact that umbrella *did* have to take aggressive action to ge the war going (something the rest of DH acknowledged happened at the time) kinda proved my point there.  Neither IRON or NPO were going to fire the first bullet without being antagonized in a major way first.  That was no 'lie' it was my opinion, and one I actually think I was correct on.   Nor do I think I made up anything about umbrella.  I didnt lie to my membership, theres piles of logs on the ODN forums that convinced most people ;:amused::..  I'm not going to get into that whole mess since its between umbrella and ODN but it wasnt about lies or umbrella or ODN being evil, it was just about us not being compatible at that time.

 

But we didn't use that as an excuse to dump the treaty and switch sides.  Other alliances have.   In our case, we stuck it out because we felt we made a commitment even if we disliked some of the actions Umbrella was taking at the time.  And once the war ended, then yes we parted ways.  I'm not sure I understand your problem with this behavior.  We had issues with Umbrella.  We sucked it up cause a war was on the horizon.  And when the war was done we moved on.  This is what alliances in cn *SHOULD* be doing.  To my eyes ODN handled themselves well in the whole situation.  And both our enemies and our allies in equilibrium can confirm, ODN did nothing dishonorable that war.  We were in it within days, we fought on all tiers, we took massive damage, and we didnt leave until our allies left.

 

In terms of Brehon... I also have plenty of respect for Brehon as a person and a leader, but I suppose that's a different topic.  I've never been someone to trash a CN individual or leader because thats the way the OWF winds are blowing.   I've seen leaders go from loved and respected to hated back to admired.  I judge people based on my own interactions with them, and I respect Brehon plenty as a person.  If you don't like him based on your interactions, that's your prerogative.  But ive got plenty of respect personally for how he handled himself.

 

If that makes me a "two-faced, slimy, moral-when-convenient pile of trash." then hey, i'll wear that proudly.  And if my respecting Brehon bothers people, i'll give you the same answer I gave those who were trashing me for defending Roq back in the day.   Or, for that matter, a number of GOONS members when GOONS reformed.  Stuff it.  My opinion of someones character and ability isnt going to be influenced because they are derided on the owf.

Edited August 3, 2014 by OsRavan

[Unknown Smurf]

 

Not that I agree with the rest of your post cause I dont... but that particularly stood out... ::tilts head::    Ummm what.  What allies did we abandon?  I hope you dont mean DH and MK as you seem to imply.... since I distinctly remember getting rolled for them heh.  In fact I remember breaking TOPS record for the most alliance dow's in that war.  I'm not even remotely able to figure out how you got "ODN abandoned their allies" from equilibrium.  When you consider all of our allies were on the sme side and we were fighting for them.  But hey.  And considering we were offered a chance to switch sides(months before  and after the start of both equilibrium and the recent war and didnt take it.  As well as pure white peace with no surrender in the middle of the war months before it ended.... i'm again not sure how you can claim we abandoned our allies.

 

 

 

You do realize ODN took one of the worse poundings in that war out of everyone?  IIRC they had one of the largest middle/upper tiers at the time and came out completely dismantled.  If that's abandoning your allies, I can't wait for them to abandon us :|

 

Just a bit of fact-checking. Damage for ODN's side sorted by alliances taking the most damage (% NS lost):

 

TSO 76.96

VE 76.47

Int 61.03

MK 60.01

Umb 58.45

TOP 55.04

GOONS 54.78

ODN 54.34

TOOTR 52.8

TLR 51.43

NG 50.61

GATO 23.03

 

 

Average Lost: 56.24% (Higher than ODN) 

Edited August 4, 2014 by Unknown Smurf

[OsRavan]

::amused:: IS that your attempt to side step the actual point US?  Selective statistical use rather than trying to address what I was actually saying.  :slow clap::

[Lord Hershey]

Where's Alchemy on this? I know Alchemy has taken the most damage of all, I think?

[Baltus]

 

 

 

Just a bit of fact-checking. Damage for ODN's side sorted by alliances taking the most damage (% NS lost):

 

TSO 76.96

VE 76.47

Int 61.03

MK 60.01

Umb 58.45

TOP 55.04

GOONS 54.78

ODN 54.34

TOOTR 52.8

TLR 51.43

NG 50.61

GATO 23.03

 

 

Average Lost: 56.24% (Higher than ODN) 

Now that was a fun war. 

[Steve Buscemi]

 
It's almost as if you have mastered the art of being incredibly vague and intentionally misleading. Let me know the next time your sugar daddy attacks our MDoAP ally and what exactly you expect us to do about it (hint: it isn't going to be 'nothing'). You've already demonstrated that you care more for your skype circlejerk than allies of more than 4 years.
 

You're right, Non Grata helped plan with NPO, AI and IRON to attack Umbrella, and by extension MK and GOONS. The very example of how toxic dealing with Non Grata can be.

You left PB because you were so delusional you were convinced VE and Umbrella were planning to attack you when that was never the case, no matter how much they may have had disagreements with you at the time over stupid things both of you had done or said. And in that delusional victim complex you had you built up a toxic atmosphere nobody wanted to be around any longer.

lol, wrong, every single sentence.  I and the rest of the triumvirate decided to leave PB because VE/Umb's plan to roll DR/our ally in IRON was retarded.  We were always the unwanted step-child of PB and that reared it's ugly face towards the end of PB when you pushed for the rolling of our ally.  So we left as anyone would've.  I didn't think VE/Umb would attack us.  That's stupid and if it were true, we wouldn't leave the bloc that prevented them from doing that.  How does us thinking you wanted to roll IRON = us thinking you'd roll NG? That's not even slightly plausible.

 

NPO, AI, and IRON will confirm we did not encourage the rolling of Umb.  I didn't want that war, NG didn't want that war, and we knew we'd be "$&#*'ed" either way as someone said, correctly.  It was a lose-lose war for us.  Why in the hell would we want to see half our allies get rolled?  Then, even the side we went with, resented us for "fence sitting".  We should've just backstabbed half our allies, right?!  eQ war CB was much better than this last one, that's for sure.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Steve Buscemi

[Unknown Smurf]

::amused:: IS that your attempt to side step the actual point US?  Selective statistical use rather than trying to address what I was actually saying.  :slow clap::

 

As I was not involved in any of this, nor was I aware of the issues that led to the downfall of PB I couldn't comment on what you actually said. I just thought it was relevant to note that both GOONS and ODN basically fought as hard as the other one did. 

[Devilyn Caster]

Now that was a fun war. 

 

I seriously doubt there will be another war quite as good as that again.

[Neo Uruk]

Now that was a fun war.

I enjoyed the war planning board once I saw it :V

I jest.

[Groucho Marx]

You do realize ODN took one of the worse poundings in that war out of everyone?  IIRC they had one of the largest middle/upper tiers at the time and came out completely dismantled.  If that's abandoning your allies, I can't wait for them to abandon us :|

 
 

Yep. Alliances who took the biggest pounding are the alliances who are being character assassinated.

Oh well.

See below, thanks:
 
 

Just a bit of fact-checking. Damage for ODN's side sorted by alliances taking the most damage (% NS lost):
 
TSO 76.96
VE 76.47
Int 61.03
MK 60.01
Umb 58.45
TOP 55.04
GOONS 54.78
ODN 54.34
TOOTR 52.8
TLR 51.43
NG 50.61
GATO 23.03
 
 
Average Lost: 56.24% (Higher than ODN)

Ehr no i dont think I lied to anyone lol.  Really, the fact that umbrella *did* have to take aggressive action to ge the war going (something the rest of DH acknowledged happened at the time) kinda proved my point there.  Neither IRON or NPO were going to fire the first bullet without being antagonized in a major way first.  That was no 'lie' it was my opinion, and one I actually think I was correct on.   Nor do I think I made up anything about umbrella.  I didnt lie to my membership, theres piles of logs on the ODN forums that convinced most people ;:amused::..  I'm not going to get into that whole mess since its between umbrella and ODN but it wasnt about lies or umbrella or ODN being evil, it was just about us not being compatible at that time.
 
But we didn't use that as an excuse to dump the treaty and switch sides.  Other alliances have.   In our case, we stuck it out because we felt we made a commitment even if we disliked some of the actions Umbrella was taking at the time.  And once the war ended, then yes we parted ways.  I'm not sure I understand your problem with this behavior.  We had issues with Umbrella.  We sucked it up cause a war was on the horizon.  And when the war was done we moved on.  This is what alliances in cn *SHOULD* be doing.  To my eyes ODN handled themselves well in the whole situation.  And both our enemies and our allies in equilibrium can confirm, ODN did nothing dishonorable that war.  We were in it within days, we fought on all tiers, we took massive damage, and we didnt leave until our allies left.
 
In terms of Brehon... I also have plenty of respect for Brehon as a person and a leader, but I suppose that's a different topic.  I've never been someone to trash a CN individual or leader because thats the way the OWF winds are blowing.   I've seen leaders go from loved and respected to hated back to admired.  I judge people based on my own interactions with them, and I respect Brehon plenty as a person.  If you don't like him based on your interactions, that's your prerogative.  But ive got plenty of respect personally for how he handled himself.
 
If that makes me a "two-faced, slimy, moral-when-convenient pile of trash." then hey, i'll wear that proudly.  And if my respecting Brehon bothers people, i'll give you the same answer I gave those who were trashing me for defending Roq back in the day.   Or, for that matter, a number of GOONS members when GOONS reformed.  Stuff it.  My opinion of someones character and ability isnt going to be influenced because they are derided on the owf.

You lied to us about NPO and DR every chance you had and over exaggerated anything DH may have done to "provoke" poor little NPO and DR. You shut out any viewpoints or opinions of your allies in DH in favor of taking sides against your allies and repeatedly in private meetings lied to our faces and gave us a line anytime Brehon started running his mouth and inflaming tensions. You only did a far better job at fighting in that war than GATO did though, because GATO's nations were refusing to fight and the alliance as a whole had to be cajoled into following C&G into the conflict. So I can't deny that you at least committed to your act at the expense of your membership. And I too have plenty of logs of you yanking us around in private about NPO and DR and your intentions as leader of one of our closest allied groups. What alliances really SHOULD be doing is not following your example of hamstringing your allies for months, shooting down any attempts at changing the situation and then making your deal with Brehon to "spare" MK in order to get a good peace deal while making sure ODN had a place in an NPO led post-war world. But at least you put on a good show fighting one last war for MK and then signing with NPO immediately afterwards.

I'm glad you have such overwhelming respect for somebody who spent all of his time on his radio show ranting about how he would destroy C&G if it meant attacking your allies. I guess if you want to be friends with a conniving blowhard like Brehon who has no regard for anyone else, then I guess that's your prerogative and is an excellent example of your character. So please, spare me. :rolleyes:
 
 

lol, wrong, every single sentence.  I and the rest of the triumvirate decided to leave PB because VE/Umb's plan to roll DR/our ally in IRON was retarded.  We were always the unwanted step-child of PB and that reared it's ugly face towards the end of PB when you pushed for the rolling of our ally.  So we left as anyone would've.  I didn't think VE/Umb would attack us.  That's stupid and if it were true, we wouldn't leave the bloc that prevented them from doing that.  How does us thinking you wanted to roll IRON = us thinking you'd roll NG? That's not even slightly plausible.
 
NPO, AI, and IRON will confirm we did not encourage the rolling of Umb.  I didn't want that war, NG didn't want that war, and we knew we'd be "$&#*'ed" either way as someone said, correctly.  It was a lose-lose war for us.  Why in the hell would we want to see half our allies get rolled?  Then, even the side we went with, resented us for "fence sitting".  We should've just backstabbed half our allies, right?!  eQ war CB was much better than this last one, that's for sure.

Sure there were other reasons for the dissolution of that bloc, but your attitude and behavior toward everyone was just as rotten then as it is today and a major part of what makes dealing with Non Grata unappealing. I suppose next time you find yourself in a similar situation to eQ you won't repeatedly threaten to exit the war if the side you decided to join doesn't accept absurd terms you felt were "reasonable". :rolleyes: Anyways, all you complained about throughout the entirety of my time as Secretariat was Umb and VE's "plot" to attack you and how we were enabling them. Your self-fulfilling prophecy came true last war, though. Congratulations on being the one party most responsible for it finally happening. At least now I don't have to listen to that !@#$%^&* anymore. Edited August 4, 2014 by Emperor Marx

[Stewie]

Sure there were other reasons for the dissolution of that bloc, but your attitude and behavior toward everyone was just as rotten then as it is today and a major part of what makes dealing with Non Grata unappealing. I suppose next time you find yourself in a similar situation to eQ you won't repeatedly threaten to exit the war if the side you decided to join doesn't accept absurd terms you felt were "reasonable". :rolleyes: Anyways, all you complained about throughout the entirety of my time as Secretariat was Umb and VE's "plot" to attack you and how we were enabling them. Your self-fulfilling prophecy came true last war, though. Congratulations on being the one party most responsible for it finally happening. At least now I don't have to listen to that !@#$%^&* anymore.

 

You guys sold your soul to XX to get a shot at Non Grata.

 

*slow claps*

 

It's just like 2011 all over again..  back then you guys wanted to sell your soul to XX to get a shot at Mjolnir and DuckRoll...

[King Brandon]

 

You guys sold your soul to XX to get a shot at Non Grata.

 

*slow claps*

 

It's just like 2011 all over again..  back then you guys wanted to sell your soul to XX to get a shot at Mjolnir and DuckRoll...

 

Because i'm sure you've had great luck with those treaties?

 

Anyways Marx stop being a drama queen we all knew that AI and company had drawn up a sizable coalition, no one should have doubted that. It was the whole reason we gave the ok for Umbrella to give a CB since at the time we were at the peak of our strength, and we had the maximum support we would get at the time. If you recall we really wanted to roll AI.

Edited August 4, 2014 by King Brandon

[Stewie]

 

Because i'm sure you've had great luck with those treaties?

 

Anyways Marx stop being a drama queen we all knew that AI and company had drawn up a sizable coalition, no one should have doubted that. It was the whole reason we gave the ok for Umbrella to give a CB since at the time we were at the peak of our strength, and we had the maximum support we would get at the time. If you recall we really wanted to roll AI.

 

 

Our treaties are fine thank you very much.

 

We rolled FARK which was our goal at that point, then we rolled the rest of SF & extended sphere the following war.

 

Post Dave however, as extended spheres started to rub against each other we began having to sit on fences due to the way the world was shaping up.

 

And yes, we have had great luck with those treaties.  In fact our current allied list are the most tight knit bunch we've been allied to in a while.  And guess what?  We actually get along with each other.  There's no active sniping at each other in high gov chans unlike when I was allied to MK, Umb, VE and GOONS.

[Beauty]

 

 

Our treaties are fine thank you very much.

 

We rolled FARK which was our goal at that point, then we rolled the rest of SF & extended sphere the following war.

 

Post Dave however, as extended spheres started to rub against each other we began having to sit on fences due to the way the world was shaping up.

 

And yes, we have had great luck with those treaties.  In fact our current allied list are the most tight knit bunch we've been allied to in a while.  And guess what?  We actually get along with each other.  There's no active sniping at each other in high gov chans unlike when I was allied to MK, Umb, VE and GOONS.

 

That would be because NG is as relevant as Kashmir at this point after their beat downs. Also your alies aren't really relevant after their beat downs either other than Pacifica or the ones you helped to politically sacrifice, IRON. 

[Dre4mwe4ver]

You only did a far better job at fighting in that war than GATO did though, because GATO's nations were refusing to fight and the alliance as a whole had to be cajoled into following C&G into the conflict.

Check your facts before you speak, mate. GATO nations didn't refuse to fight. GATO played her role in the war the way she did at the request of the coalition. Feel free to address complaints there, not the GATO nations who a were willing to fight, but still followed orders not to.

[Goldie]

 

 

And yes, we have had great luck with those treaties.  In fact our current allied list are the most tight knit bunch we've been allied to in a while.  And guess what?  We actually get along with each other.  There's no active sniping at each other in high gov chans unlike when I was allied to MK, Umb, VE and GOONS.

I blame Impero, Arexes, and Nate.

[kerschbs]

Check your facts before you speak, mate. GATO nations didn't refuse to fight. GATO played her role in the war the way she did at the request of the coalition. Feel free to address complaints there, not the GATO nations who a were willing to fight, but still followed orders not to.

 

It's not worth trying to explain Dream, we know what happened and that is good enough.