Announcement from the Legion concerning Tetris

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Seerow' timestamp='1317687777' post='2815083']
Spying is bad, but not an attack in of itself. Especially given the quality of the material gained by the spy.
[/quote]

I would believe that all alliances in this game consider spying to be an attack on an alliance.
In fact, coalitions have been started on the premise that an alliance would send a spy, let alone defend the actions of one.
The quality of it is not relevant, that the offender was not dealt with properly and openly defended by Tetris is astonishing, and merely leads me to believe those here who would criticize the Legion's actions are only hoping the stiuation to escalate rather than having interest in an objective description of it.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1317687616' post='2815077']
[color="#0000ff"]I don't see Legion being mocked. I'll agree it is a valid CB. I'd have done the same in their position. What I will not agree with, however, is that Tetris deserves to be raked over with coals. I am a firm advocate for coming to their defense, and I am by no means alone in that sentiment.[/color]
[/quote]

Of course, RV. An alliance that openly and unashamedly spies on another and announces it publicly should never be held to account for those actions by the aggrieved alliance. Poor Tetris.

The only reason Tetris did what they did was to allow you and others to take a shot at Legion and, by connection, Polar. You aren't coming to their defence, you are providing support for their spy attacks on Legion.

[magicninja]

So NPO's CB was valid against whoever that alliance was they got in trouble for Karma for....I see.

[the rebel]

[quote name='Jake Liebenow' timestamp='1317688107' post='2815094']
Pfff, no it won't.[/quote]

I did say might, not will...

[King Louis the II]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1317688181' post='2815099']
VE will likely hit around 20 minutes before update. NSO will also come in at some point.

But at least for a few hours, Legion is feeling its manhood again and the world seems a bit nicer.
[/quote]

After last war, if VE supports tetris her credibilty will be completely lost. It would be a great disapointment.

[Ogaden]

This just in, political expediency trumps right and wrong.

More shocking news at update.

[Subcomandante VL]

Here we go...

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1317688220' post='2815102']
I would believe that all alliances in this game consider spying to be an attack on an alliance.
In fact, coalitions have been started on the premise that an alliance would send a spy, let alone defend the actions of one.
The quality of it is not relevant, that the offender was not dealt with properly and openly defended by Tetris is astonishing, and merely leads me to believe those here who would criticize the Legion's actions are only hoping the stiuation to escalate rather than having interest in an objective description of it.
[/quote]

Who in Tetris spied on Legion? If we're going to call an alliance out for spying, you surely have the spy named with evidence.

[cardkid123]

[quote name='Ayatollah Bromeini' timestamp='1317682996' post='2814859']
Good luck, Tetris.

Have fun looking at peace mode for the next few days/weeks.
[/quote]


Good luck legion!

[Tygaland]

[quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1317688433' post='2815110']
This just in, political expediency trumps right and wrong.

More shocking news at update.
[/quote]

I enjoyed the sarcasm!

[The Warrior]

Y DON'T U GUYZ LIEK TEH LEGION?!

Sorry I had to. You were all thinking it anyway.

Good luck to both parties. Let the "fireworks" commence.

[dane0]

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' timestamp='1317688458' post='2815112']
Who in Tetris spied on Legion? If we're going to call an alliance out for spying, you surely have the spy named with evidence.
[/quote]
They still haven't told us! I'd love to know who did it.

[berbers]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1317688299' post='2815105']

The only reason Tetris did what they did was to allow you and others to take a shot at Legion and, by connection, Polar. You aren't coming to their defence, you are providing support for their spy attacks on Legion.
[/quote]

I think it's more the fact that Tetris is !@#$% insane and less that it's an intricate plot.

Either way, both alliances rate similar on my care scale, so I hope they have fun.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1317688299' post='2815105']
Of course, RV. An alliance that openly and unashamedly spies on another and announces it publicly should never be held to account for those actions by the aggrieved alliance. Poor Tetris.

The only reason Tetris did what they did was to allow you and others to take a shot at Legion and, by connection, Polar. You aren't coming to their defence, you are providing support for their spy attacks on Legion.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I have no idea where that conspiracy theory has come from, but I assure you it is not the case. NSO does not like Legion. I'll give you that. Very few do. But tell me, what sense would it be to have Tetris spy on Legion just so that NSO could make a charge and in turn get countered by Polar, Invicta, and every other ally Legion has? I actually like Polar, believe it or not, and have a fair amount of respect of Invicta (excluding Haflinger). NSO has no motivation to roll Polar or set up Legion, and being that we have never been anyone's lackey I would find it hard to believe we're getting Tetris to do the dirty work for whatever anti-Polar conspiracy is out there.

I personally do think Tetris acted stupidly, and perhaps the CB is valid. However, NSO has an MDP with Tetris. There is no clause in that text that says the treaty is void if the CB is "valid." The defense is unconditional.[/color]

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' timestamp='1317688458' post='2815112']
Who in Tetris spied on Legion? If we're going to call an alliance out for spying, you surely have the spy named with evidence.
[/quote]

I seem to remember receiving screenshots and looking at them was an act of war recently. I know I have been a bit inactive lately but has this definition changed? Of course, I never much agreed with that definition because it is too easy to set someone up (Hi Dajobo!) but in this case it seems not only did they receive and look at the screenshots, they posted them publicly.

I think you have drawn a long bow here but it is amusing and entertaining to see you all dance around the mess you guys made.

[NewPoseidon]

Good luck Tetris. Nation for nation you guys are worth ten times the purple bellies who are gonna try to zerg rush you. I'll buy a bunch of Tetris tech when this thing is over.

[Jaiar]

Well damn. This thread is moving fast so I might as well comment...

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1317683410' post='2814897']
I do love the unilateral declaration of how they interpret aggressors and defenders in this.

That being said I do believe Legion has legitimate reason to go to war, while at the same time I do believe people will defend Tetris.
[/quote]
Is the Viridian Entente one of those defenders?

[quote name='Silver Empress' timestamp='1317683861' post='2814930']
Inb4 Tetris tells their allies to stay out of it.
[/quote]
Tetris won't or probably won't be able to stop NSO from getting in.

[quote name='NeCoHo' timestamp='1317684034' post='2814935']
Nice Update Blitz LoLegion!
[/quote]
Pacifican! Show class to your former ally. Has it been so long that you were at the seat of power that you will ridicule former allies just to win points with your new friends. And people ask me why I left. I love Pacifica. It is greater than this attitude it is showing lately. You should remember it is a priviledge for others to be treatied to Pacifica and not the other way around. Stop acting so damn eager to be liked. You embarass me, you embarass yourselves.

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1317688724' post='2815127']
probably won't be able to stop NSO from getting in.

[/quote]

I like how you put that

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' timestamp='1317688458' post='2815112']
Who in Tetris spied on Legion? If we're going to call an alliance out for spying, you surely have the spy named with evidence.
[/quote]

[quote name='USMC123' timestamp='1317683790' post='2814927']
Wow. You actually did it.

>Tetris takes responsible parties out of power
>Attack anyway.

Whatever. You made my day Legion. <3
[/quote]

Tetris government officials in this very thread state that the situation was dealt with, implying that there was actual spying that actually did take place.
I believe this declaration to be in response to the idea that this situation was not dealt with properly, that Tetris has continued mocking Legion throughout is more telling.
I have also seen copious amounts of evidence, from the OWF posts by Hereno of distributing internal information of the Legion himself as well as dialogue between other alliances that don't agree with the actions Tetris has taken in an attempt to provoke Legion that indeed, would be considered to your allies as close allies suggests that suggests that Tetris is nowhere near in the right and somewhere in the wrong.

I respect that its allies will come to its defense but I cannot respect the idea that the Legion is not warranted in defending itself against this unjust aggression.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1317688654' post='2815123']
[color="#0000ff"]I have no idea where that conspiracy theory has come from, but I assure you it is not the case. NSO does not like Legion. I'll give you that. Very few do. But tell me, what sense would it be to have Tetris spy on Legion just so that NSO could make a charge and in turn get countered by Polar, Invicta, and every other ally Legion has? I actually like Polar, believe it or not, and have a fair amount of respect of Invicta (excluding Haflinger). NSO has no motivation to roll Polar or set up Legion, and being that we have never been anyone's lackey I would find it hard to believe we're getting Tetris to do the dirty work for whatever anti-Polar conspiracy is out there.
[/quote]

[color=black]Yes, I can see the utter disappointment in the words of your members at recent developments. It is also unfathomable that Tetris were ware they had the backing of many alliances should they manage to goad Legion into war.[/color]

[quote]
I personally do think Tetris acted stupidly, and perhaps the CB is valid. However, NSO has an MDP with Tetris. There is no clause in that text that says the treaty is void if the CB is "valid." The defense is unconditional.[/color]
[/quote]

You are not defending them, they committed an act of war against Legion as you acknowledged. There is no hint of anyone setting up Tetris as they have posted openly of their exploits against Legion. But, whatever it takes for you to feel good about yourself, RV.

Edited October 4, 2011 by Tygaland

[Saniiro Matsudaira]

Well, this came a bit earlier than expected.

Go get 'em, Tetris!

[magicninja]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1317688699' post='2815125']
I seem to remember receiving screenshots and looking at them was an act of war recently. I know I have been a bit inactive lately but has this definition changed? Of course, I never much agreed with that definition because it is too easy to set someone up (Hi Dajobo!) but in this case it seems not only did they receive and look at the screenshots, they posted them publicly.

I think you have drawn a long bow here but it is amusing and entertaining to see you all dance around the mess you guys made.
[/quote]

It's been flip flopping depending on who had the upper hand. I guess it depends on each alliance's definition. Remember VEW beat NPO defending some small alliance that took screenies from NPO and started Karma?

last war as I remember it was different because Polar actively sought out the info instead of just having handed to them. Little differences etc.

In this case it seems Hereno got handed the screenies and didn't seek them out. Poor form to leak them on the OWF sure but he wasn't doing the spying. Surely you see the difference. or you can be willfully blind. either way is fine with me.

[Locke]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1317688219' post='2815101']
Calling a spade a spade and whatnot, there is zero evidence that proves Hereno or Tetris spied on anyone. The facts, as they are, unless I missed something, is that Hereno received some screenshots from Legions forums, and made them public. To convict Hereno of spying, you have to be able to prove that he set a plan in motion, with the intent to gain those screenshots. Its plausible, yes. Proven? No. Unless I missed it somewhere. Its also equally plausible that someone in Legion, unhappy with Legion, simply gave them up to him. Its not unprecedented.

If I were Legion, id probably have done the same thing they have done. But let us not sit here and act like this is a clear cut case of spying. One thing spies do, is try not to get caught. That he went public with his info makes him much less likely a spy, and much more likely some form of collaborator.
[/quote]
Did you read the OP at all?
[quote name='Alexander Kerensky' timestamp='1317682807' post='2814839']
The [u][i]public dissemination of received information[/i][/u] from the act of subterfuge and espionage can not be tolerated, nor can the act of government sponsored protection of person(s) involved in said act.
[/quote]
That is the CB. They aren't claiming Tetris spied on them. They are claiming Tetris publicly released information gained from such efforts, which is undeniable. Tetris' then-government offered support for the action, which Legion could not abide by, thus they declared war. These are the facts of the matter. Whether or not you believe that spreading information gained through spying is a CB is another matter, but putting up a false argument such as yours by ignorance or malice does not make for a valid case.

[Jake Liebenow]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1317688940' post='2815131']
You are not defending them, they committed an act of war against Legion as you acknowledged. There is no hint of anyone setting up Tetris as they have posted openly of their exploits against Legion. But, whatever it takes for you to feel good about yourself, RV.
[/quote]

They just hit our direct allies in a military sense. Hereno received the screens; Tetris didn't actually spy on Legion. I'm just saying. I mean, you're free to believe the "DIBS ON DEFENSE " line that Legion put out their in the OP, but it just doesn't hold water. Especially since they didn't use the same precedent to hit us when they had the chance.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1317688940' post='2815131']
[color=black]Yes, I can see the utter disappointment in the words of your members at recent developments. It is also unfathomable that Tetris were ware they had the backing of many alliances should they manage to goad Legion into war.[/color]



You are not defending them, they committed an act of war against Legion as you acknowledged. There is no hint of anyone setting up Tetris as they have posted openly of their exploits against Legion. But, whatever it takes for you to feel good about yourself, RV.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]So because NSO members are not disappointed that there is a war it is evidence of a conspiracy? Please forgive me if I do not see the logic in that. I will give Legion credit for finally standing up for themselves. Quite honestly I never expected I'd be saying that. But it does not mean I will not relish destroying them.

As for Tetris, whether or not they deserve being rolled is irrelevant. If we had no treaty with them I wouldn't support defending them for this, but there is a treaty. And it is not optional.

Lastly, I do not need to say anything to make myself feel good about myself. I am a golden god.[/color]