Kzoppistan Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 [center][img]http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/3291/eaglepaint.jpg[/img] [Excellent work by Makaveli] [quote]Well you may throw your rock and hide your hand Workin' in the dark against your fellow man But as sure as Admin made black and white What's done in the dark will be brought to the light[/quote] [/center] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadshot Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 [quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1317688724' post='2815127'] Pacifican! Show class to your former ally. Has it been so long that you were at the seat of power that you will ridicule former allies just to win points with your new friends. And people ask me why I left. I love Pacifica. It is greater than this attitude it is showing lately. You should remember it is a priviledge for others to be treatied to Pacifica and not the other way around. Stop acting so damn eager to be liked. You embarass me, you embarass yourselves. [/quote] Oh Jesus !@#$@#$ Christ, I'm sure he was lol'ing the 6 hour before update blitz that did 20k damage. I would laugh too. Get over trashing Pacifica and move on with your life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 [quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1317689007' post='2815134'] last war as I remember it was different because Polar actively sought out the info instead of just having handed to them. Little differences etc. [/quote] No, they didn't. [quote] In this case it seems Hereno got handed the screenies and didn't seek them out. Poor form to leak them on the OWF sure but he wasn't doing the spying. Surely you see the difference. or you can be willfully blind. either way is fine with me. [/quote] As I said, looking at screenshots was an act of war not so long ago. In this case we have an alliance that not only looked at them but posted them publicly and you are telling me that Tetris' actions are not an act of war? Wilfully blind indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 [quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1317689007' post='2815134'] It's been flip flopping depending on who had the upper hand. I guess it depends on each alliance's definition. Remember VEW beat NPO defending some small alliance that took screenies from NPO and started Karma? last war as I remember it was different because Polar actively sought out the info instead of just having handed to them. Little differences etc. In this case it seems Hereno got handed the screenies and didn't seek them out. Poor form to leak them on the OWF sure but he wasn't doing the spying. Surely you see the difference. or you can be willfully blind. either way is fine with me. [/quote] I'm pretty sure Seth B never posted his info on the OWF and then mocked NPO. Tetris did. Not defending either move, but there is a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 [quote name='Locke' timestamp='1317689094' post='2815137'] Did you read the OP at all? That is the CB. They aren't claiming Tetris spied on them. They are claiming Tetris publicly released information gained from such efforts, which is undeniable. Tetris' then-government offered support for the action, which Legion could not abide by, thus they declared war. These are the facts of the matter. Whether or not you believe that spreading information gained through spying is a CB is another matter, but putting up a false argument such as yours by ignorance or malice does not make for a valid case. [/quote] Oh I see they are just mad at the leaking and not really at the spying? seems to me the reasonable thing would to go after the actual spies but hey I guess this action makes so much more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 roll tetris. I'm serious, if you don't bill lock 90% of them, considering their warchests, you guys are a joke. Other than that, it's nice to see Legion stand up for itself even though, inevitably, alliances like VE will defend their protectorate as they did in Karma. Just my 02cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Apologies for the late reply, I got all busy (OOC: Pesky essays) [quote name='RandomInterrupt' timestamp='1317687510' post='2815074'] I mean, you can claim whatever you want at the end. But if one were to look at this from a neutral position* I think it is plain to see that Tetris took actions that have, basically since day one, been understood to be acts of war. Tetris' allies can, of course, do whatever they want and claim whatever they want but the reality is Tetris started the conflict and Legion reacted. *I don't pretend to be neutral in this conflict, but I've been around enough to know how things work. [/quote] Oh, I agree that Tetris have provoked this war. If I were in Legion, I would probably have taken the same actions (as unwise as it may prove to be). I was only really referring to your example of the 'death of the MADP' (meaning people weren't forced to join in anymore). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berbers Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 2/3 of Tetri's top nations are in anarchy, all have offensive wars against them, so Legion didn't shy away from the top. http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=82962 I also found the above guy, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoppistan Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 [quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1317689362' post='2815145'] Oh I see they are just mad at the leaking and not really at the spying? seems to me the reasonable thing would to go after the actual spies but hey I guess this action makes so much more sense. [/quote] The problem with spies is that they're [i]sneaky[/i]. Sort of a job requirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 [quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1317689337' post='2815143'] No, they didn't. As I said, looking at screenshots was an act of war not so long ago. In this case we have an alliance that not only looked at them but posted them publicly and you are telling me that Tetris' actions are not an act of war? Wilfully blind indeed. [/quote] You lost all credibility with the first line. NpO was complicit whether you like it or not. After that i guess your views on these issues are too skewed to argue with. so good day and have fun if/when you get to battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 [quote name='Jake Liebenow' timestamp='1317689211' post='2815139'] They just hit our direct allies in a military sense. Hereno received the screens; Tetris didn't actually spy on Legion. I'm just saying. I mean, you're free to believe the "DIBS ON DEFENSE " line that Legion put out their in the OP, but it just doesn't hold water. Especially since they didn't use the same precedent to hit us when they had the chance. [/quote] I have no interest in the "dibs on defence" nonsense you prefer to run with. Tetris, by publishing screenshots from Legion's forum has committed an act of war against Legion. I don't see how it is so hard to understand. Legion are defending themselves from that act against them so as far as I'm aware Tetris were the aggressors in this conflict by any definition. The fact Legion did not attack you when you did similar to them is inconsequential but it does show that RV is talking crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Louis the II Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1317689355' post='2815144'] I'm pretty sure Seth B never posted his info on the OWF and then mocked NPO. Tetris did. [/quote] This. I always see reason coming from my loved oranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 [quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1317689225' post='2815140'] [color="#0000ff"]So because NSO members are not disappointed that there is a war it is evidence of a conspiracy? Please forgive me if I do not see the logic in that. I will give Legion credit for finally standing up for themselves. Quite honestly I never expected I'd be saying that. But it does not mean I will not relish destroying them. [/quote] [color=black]Well, there is that and the fact you guys tried the same stunt as Tetris not long ago.[/color] [quote] As for Tetris, whether or not they deserve being rolled is irrelevant. If we had no treaty with them I wouldn't support defending them for this, but there is a treaty. And it is not optional. Lastly, I do not need to say anything to make myself feel good about myself. I am a golden god.[/color] [/quote] You can do what you like treaty-wise. The fact you are trying to paint Tetris as a victim is the issue I'm disageeing with you on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 It seems to be agreed by all sides that at no point did Tetris deliberately initiate spying on Legion. I also recall that Tetris punished its government members who participated in the dissemination of the "acquired" information, and they did this without any serious outside coercion, but because they decided it was the correct thing to do. Finally, given that the information released was utterly inconsequential, to the extent that even most of the people on here who vehemently dislike Legion didn't really bother to do much with it, it seems that forcing the issue to an all-out war is nothing more than a foolhardy response to political pressure rather than a rational action in the interests of the Legion. It is nice to see Legion trying to defend itself after so many embarrassments, but this was really not the best place to make your stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockhunter Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Best of luck legion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1317689355' post='2815144'] I'm pretty sure Seth B never posted his info on the OWF and then mocked NPO. Tetris did. Not defending either move, but there is a difference. [/quote] Yeah I said there were differences enough between all three cases. where the similarity with SethB lies is that the information was not actively spied by either Seth or Hereno. I think that is a bigger detail then what happened with the info afterwards. Quite frankly if you don;t want your business ending up here have better security. NPO and Legion should have both tried to find the actual culprit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melancholy Culkin Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Has anyone mentioned the fact that Legion hit 6 hours before update? I think that should be brought up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodivine Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Only took Legion 9 days to get the nuts to declare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Systemfailure Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 [quote name='Melancholy Culkin' timestamp='1317689662' post='2815161'] Has anyone mentioned the fact that Legion hit 6 hours before update? I think that should be brought up. [/quote] yes it has but its still funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Liebenow Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 [quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1317689513' post='2815153'] I have no interest in the "dibs on defence" nonsense you prefer to run with. Tetris, [b]by publishing screenshots from Legion's forum has committed an act of war against Legion.[/b] I don't see how it is so hard to understand. Legion are defending themselves from that act against them so as far as I'm aware Tetris were the aggressors in this conflict by any definition. [b]The fact Legion did not attack you when you did similar to them is inconsequential[/b] but it does show that RV is talking crap. [/quote] I'm sorry, but since when does someone who has testicular fortitude pick and choose their CB's? Fact is, they didn't see it as valid when we were "doing it". Why do they see it as valid now? Either they're bullies, or they're just dumb. And I sincerely doubt anyone would consider Legion to be bullies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 [quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1317689505' post='2815152'] You lost all credibility with the first line. NpO was complicit whether you like it or not. After that i guess your views on these issues are too skewed to argue with. so good day and have fun if/when you get to battle. [/quote] Yes, because if you say it is so then it is so, right? Dajobo never sought anything out, Lennox offered it to him and has since admitted he set Dajobo up. But, whatever floats your boat, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cager Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Anybody care to take a wager when Legion's backbone will cave in and they fold up this war with white peace?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrenster Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 [quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1317688724' post='2815127'] Pacifican! Show class to your former ally. Has it been so long that you were at the seat of power that you will ridicule former allies just to win points with your new friends. And people ask me why I left. I love Pacifica. It is greater than this attitude it is showing lately. You should remember it is a priviledge for others to be treatied to Pacifica and not the other way around. Stop acting so damn eager to be liked. You embarass me, you embarass yourselves. [/quote] Just like you're showing class to your former alliance? Smells like double standards to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 o/ Legion! GL in your fight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyriq Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 The spying event was serious enough to necessitate the removal of Tetris government officials. There clearly was an act of war. However, an act of war does not contain the recognition of war inherent in it, and so we arrive at the in between diplomatic *event* which determines where an act of war leads; to reconciliation or war. Considering that this *event* can be said to have entailed the removal and restructuring of Tetris's high government in direct connection with responding to the act of war, the validity of Legion's recognition of war can be easily challenged by interested parties (read: Tetris's allies). I think we have ourselves a pretty legit showdown. Well done Legion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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