Announcement from Non Grata

[SoADarthCyfe6]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1317269115' post='2810853']
So now that GATO is part of the power cluster you suddenly became hungry for war?
[/quote]

lolwut, This game needs some epic spicing up and a war sounds just about perfect right now.

[Melancholy Culkin]

[quote name='TheSyl' timestamp='1317303244' post='2811613']
30m is quite a bit considering the damage. A government member shouldn't have to automatically pay more, unless he caused that much worth of damage. However, it is not worth UPN going to war over. They should have countered with about half.. what's 5 slots of aid?
[/quote]

Have you read [i]anything[/i] that anybody who isn't in NpO or Sentinel has said?

[mattski133]

Seems to me that by closing negotiations for the paltry sum of $30mil (which it seems Non Grata might have gone for some reasonable counter) UPN signed its death warrant, and I can't imagine why, given the details of this situation...walking away from the negotiation table saying "we're not paying" when clearly you are in the wrong, to a militarily and politically superior opponent...

I think we can go ahead and discount any military assistance entering on the side of UPN, and rightfully so, but it remains a mystery to me why an alliance so universally reviled by the dominant power center (NpO) would choose to ally itself to such a liability.

[LittleRena]

I would hope that the UPN MoD doesn't keep his place, an MoD who can't do the research before raiding seems a bit bad.

I'm sure there could have been a peaceful outcome to this one way or another but whatever, have your fun and so forth, I have nothing really to say here.

[KingShibby]

Non Grata

[EpsilonPhoenix]

Bullying and extortion at it's best. Truth be told, I'm a little jealous.

[justicepourtous28]

Heh, now that there's something going on, everyone's gonna jump in. I think we're all ready for a good UPN rolling.

[Daimos]

For UPN, this is not the war to go down for. Not worth putting your allies in a precarious position and risk loosing them after.

Accept conditions for peace and start picking up the pieces. Know when to fold em know when to hold em.

Good luck.

[White Chocolate]

I approve of this war declaration.

I love the CB and hope the following become common practice as a result:

1. Two man alliances are finally accepted as the alliances that they are.
2. 30 million are regularly demanded of "Tech raiders" as reps for their wars against innocents.
3. It's fully the fault of the "tech raider" (and by extension, their entire alliance) for making sure that their target is NOT protected. Annoying facts such as there being no wiki for the alliance, there being nothing listed on the nation's "about" section stating the nation is protected and so forth (you know, the types of excuses I've heard all of my career to justify so called "raids" against allies of Lander Clan) make no difference. Doesn't matter..."raider" beware. If you miss something (like the protection being announced on the OWF as one of a number protected groups), your alliance is fully accountable.

Edited September 29, 2011 by White Chocolate

[magicninja]

15 mil per target seems reasonable to me. Any decent alliance could pay that off within 10 minutes.......... UPN tried to act hard was all.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1317273675' post='2811150']
Because paying 10x what you think it's worth is an act of submission which will inevitably get dragged around as evidence of how horrible you are and any alliance with an ounce of self-respect would outright reject that future.[/quote]

You're not getting it.

When you have a gun pointed at your head because you went into the wrong neighborhood, you hand the mugger your wallet, you don't try to negotiate to keep enough money for cab fare home. Actually that's not an entirely accurate analogy, because UPN handed NG a CB.

Recently DT went through a similar scenario, they paid the man. It was their allies, not DT, that griped the most afterward. None of DT's allies thinks any worse of them and in fact everyone surrounding the incident agreed that it was dealt with and there was no further need dwell.

THAT was how this incident could have played out. It didn't. Now UPN will suffer far more than $30 mill in damages while likely not inflicting nearly as much as they will get. Not unless their allies step up for them and risk further escalation. Question is how many of them will step up. I suspect the chatter on the IRC back channels last night was, "yeah well, it's just UPN, so..."

UPN already rates lower in the eyes of the world.

[GodKing I]

[quote name='Vanilla Napalm' timestamp='1317297045' post='2811558']
Dude, the entire thing is beautiful: the tech raider is the victim, Grub is offering money to avoid war, 30mil is extortion.
I'm just waiting for Schatt to come in and espouse PB's rights. After that we can all just delete our nations, because there will be nothing more to experience.
[/quote]

I must point out.... that, you Sir, have the best name ever!!

Oh wait...the point.... Yes, we will all end up being the smartest kids with Down syndrome!

Edited September 29, 2011 by GodKing I

[janax]

How many people here make more than 30 million a day? You can't find 10 slots in an alliance of over 100 nations?

every part of this is deserved.

[deth2munkies]

[quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1317282869' post='2811448']
The only miscalculation on our part ( apart from the actual raid ) is that we did not realise this was an ultimatum.[/quote]


Are you guys just really dense or did they just up and say "fine, see you tomorrow" then declared?

I mean, I know the reps are extortionist, but we've established that NG are extraordinarily petty individuals (I mean, they sprang from Poison Clan, proof enough for me) so if they want to, they'll walk into a bar, wave their treaties around, and order everyone else to bow and lick their boots just because they can. At least the NPO had some bit of class when they did it.

The straw that would break the camel's back for me was if they gave no indication that negotiations were over before they declared. Declarations during negotiations are [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=54743"]ALWAYS a good idea that go exactly according to plan[/url].

It takes a lot to make me even consider joining Polar, but this is damn close.

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='deth2munkies' timestamp='1317306502' post='2811640']
Are you guys just really dense or did they just up and say "fine, see you tomorrow" then declared?

I mean, I know the reps are extortionist, but we've established that NG are extraordinarily petty individuals (I mean, they sprang from Poison Clan, proof enough for me) so if they want to, they'll walk into a bar, wave their treaties around, and order everyone else to bow and lick their boots just because they can. At least the NPO had some bit of class when they did it.

The straw that would break the camel's back for me was if they gave no indication that negotiations were over before they declared. Declarations during negotiations are [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=54743"]ALWAYS a good idea that go exactly according to plan[/url].

It takes a lot to make me even consider joining Polar, but this is damn close.
[/quote]

Hey now, that's not nice

[deth2munkies]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1317306766' post='2811642']
Hey now, that's not nice
[/quote]
Hey, I edited that down heavily to be appropriate, you should be thankful

[Deadshot]

[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1317277634' post='2811324']
Lazy is the FA path chosen by Pacifica. It is frustrating that the statement below is very true. You are selling out just to rejoin the power structure. You guys are all so happy that the target is off Pacifica's back and giggling like school girls because TLR and NG showed interest.

Brehon, shut up.
[/quote]


[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1317278513' post='2811355']
I don't care about being told "shut up". It's the whole alliance policy of walking on eggshells and getting cozy with enemies just to get back some power. You know full well getting ties to the stronger side of the web has nothing to do with friendship or because you actually like anyone in TLR or NG or whoever is next on your cozy list. I would have rather fought and stayed true than sold out.

I rather run along than be on my knees. Your neck sore from bobbing up and down? You will survive, Brehon. You'll have no dignity, but you will survive.
[/quote]


[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1317279145' post='2811369']
Relationships? Dude, they don't like any of you guys. The work is simply to avoid being rolled any time a war rolls around. It gets the job done I suppose.
[/quote]


Are you retarded? I know Brehon doesn't need my voice to put you in your place for him, but still; It's like you were never even in the alliance. Did you listen and/or do anything while you were here?! There is a treaty with TLR that came about through hard work done by both alliances, you know real discussion? Or is your only form of diplomacy pathetic attempts to trash other people and dick jokes? Pacifica adapts, Pacifica realizes and accepts that she is not perfect, yet strives to be. An alliance completely stuck in the past has no business in the future. Of course that is a hard concept for you to grasp, you can't even follow orders.

Secondly, Pacifica is not avoiding anything. Our allies are our allies and we will show what we can do when and if the time comes. You think Pacifica has lasted this long by being power teet grabbers? I don't think so. I think we have lasted this long because we move forward, as individuals and as an alliance. We work to communicate with alliances friend and foe alike. Judging by your post history on our forums, you wouldn't know that either.

So why don't you shut the $%&@ up and think before you post again without having a clue to anything we do, former member or no, you didn't seem active enough to know anything about the way we do things, nor did you ever speak up. Coming on here and spouting off about Pacifica in a thread that doesn't have anything to do with us just shows the world what you appear to me at least to be. A petulant screaming child looking for a little spotlight.


[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1317278394' post='2811351']
My personal opinion is that your FA path or work recently is far from lazy. You have been putting in huge amounts of works to build relationships with people I'd have never thought.


Also obligatory LOL UPN.

I hope NpO bite.
[/quote]


Thanks. Turns out there are cool people out there that I never thought were.


Anyhoo, o/ NG I know if I was leading an alliance where a government member [b]who should know better[/b] attacked someones protectorate, I would give them the 30 million. Incompetence has no room in government. Take the licks and move forward.

[Commander shepard]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1317305033' post='2811629']
15 mil per target seems reasonable to me. Any decent alliance could pay that off within 10 minutes.......... UPN tried to act hard was all.
[/quote]

Quite the opposite.

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='deth2munkies' timestamp='1317306502' post='2811640']
Are you guys just really dense or did they just up and say "fine, see you tomorrow" then declared?

I mean, I know the reps are extortionist, but we've established that NG are extraordinarily petty individuals (I mean, they sprang from Poison Clan, proof enough for me) so if they want to, they'll walk into a bar, wave their treaties around, and order everyone else to bow and lick their boots just because they can. At least the NPO had some bit of class when they did it.

The straw that would break the camel's back for me was if they gave no indication that negotiations were over before they declared. Declarations during negotiations are [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=54743"]ALWAYS a good idea that go exactly according to plan[/url].

It takes a lot to make me even consider joining Polar, but this is damn close.
[/quote]
What good will you joining Polar do UPN?

[Stormsend]

Godspeed, Non Grata. I am supremely jealous.

[deth2munkies]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1317306966' post='2811648']
What good will you joining Polar do UPN?
[/quote]
You know what I'm implying.

That said, I'd still prefer to remain outside the alliance game, but if !@#$ hits the fan I just might have to bite the bullet.

[kriekfreak]

A 400ns nation would certainly tip the scales of a global war.

[Pingu]

[quote name='Nobody Expects' timestamp='1317299817' post='2811580']
[list]

[*]Don't check wiki to see if raid target is protected[b] - Check[/b]
[*]Send Gov member to raid Alliance[b] - Check[/b]
[*]Refuse to pay suitable Reps[b] - Check[/b]
[*]Baw on the OFW cos you get rolled[b] - Check[/b]
[/list]

Best of luck NG
[/quote]

To be fair, UPN have not been bawwing. They screwed up, clearly. But they're not stinking up the OWF. Others are doing that most efficiently.

[deth2munkies]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1317307196' post='2811653']
A 400ns nation would certainly tip the scales of a global war.
[/quote]

Yes, it would be a crushing masterstroke for me to destroy nations that you recruited hours ago.

Actually, I don't even remember how to war...better find my old guides, I know they're somewhere around here...

[pezstar]

I'm trying to figure out when alliances started protecting their tech raiders. Maybe I just live too much in the STA bubble, but if one of our raiders finds himself in trouble over a raid, we're willing to discuss it with the government of the raider's alliance, as far as offering to order the raider to peace out, but that's about it. In the majority of situations, anything beyond that is up to the raider to resolve, and if it comes down to the raidee's alliance wanting to fight the raider, we're not likely to defend, except in very rare circumstances.

I suppose there's a difference here though, in that it was a member of government.

You see, alliances which allow raiding, if you allow your members to raid anything other than NONE, you'd better have some darn generous and conciliatory policies in place for when things go wrong.