A Statement from Doomhouse

[berbers]

This is bad and Doomhouse should feel bad. Not because of the war, but because of the pointless drivel their PR department is spinning out.

NPO isn't whining on the forums about everything, yet every two minutes I see another DH + Friends post about hippie NPOans, etc.

You guys pre-empted, deal with the war, stop crying that NPO won't play by your rules.

[neneko]

[quote name='berbers' timestamp='1300357716' post='2667564']
This is bad and Doomhouse should feel bad. Not because of the war, but because of the pointless drivel their PR department is spinning out.

NPO isn't whining on the forums about everything, yet every two minutes I see another DH + Friends post about hippie NPOans, etc.

You guys pre-empted, deal with the war, stop crying that NPO won't play by your rules.
[/quote]
This forum you speak of where NPO isn't whining, where would it be located?

[Ryan Greenberg]

[quote name='Lysol' timestamp='1300352715' post='2667520']
Yeah, NpO had a treaty with the grand hedgemeister of them all, NPO, and canceled on them mid war after refusing to come to their aid.

How dishonorable NpO is..
[/quote]
It also had treaties with others on Karma and you better actually check the reasoning on why that treaty was cancelled.

[Jens of the desert]

So is this Viet-PO?

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='uaciaut' timestamp='1300357337' post='2667560']
NPO:

A) let us heavily damage your middle tier because we outnumber you there and we can even put nations into PM and back due to that.
B) let us keep most of upper tier intanct
C) give us white peace too

Next thing you're gonna ask for OUR surrender as well, right? Hell maybe even dump 50k tech on you, at least we'd be doing it efficiently.
[/quote]

A) Don't complain about getting it handed to you in the middle tiers when you declared an aggressive war in which your middle tier was out numbered and your opponents wisely chose to fight in those ranges.

B) I am pretty sure that is the general idea. Why get absolutely destroyed when you can go into PM and you know...not get absolutely destroyed.

C) You probably should consider it. The war is not currently fightable in the upper tiers, in the mid and lower tiers you are getting beaten pretty badly. We are able to come out of PM, wreck nations, go back to PM without even picking up aggressive wars.

To add to the list.

D) Your vaunted efficiency is out the window, your top tier can't grow either because you are funneling money to GOONs to keep them moving in the under 5000ns fighting range and you are under the threat of war, so many of you are having to collect at about 1/2 your pre-war infra, even in the upper tiers that only fought for a round or two.

E) So NPO sits stagnant at the top, you sit nearly as stagnant there. Your middle and lower tiers are getting beaten up badly and allies are also suffering due your war of unprovoked aggression.

F) You do realize that after one round of war with your gigantic tech nations that your upper tier will once again be out of range of most of NPO's current PM nations? At that point your middle tier will be facing about 2 more rounds of war even more severely outgunned than they are now.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1300354448' post='2667540']
And now we've reached the point of assumptions, and I'm done.
[/quote]


I don't understand why you have been trying to argue a point in favour of us receiving reparations from you. You would prefer it if we demanded reparations?

[Monster]

There is no incentive for ending the war while the upper tiers who have been in peace mode the entire time have not fought. It would be stupid and give the PM strategy a victory, which sets not only a bad precedent, but would be a nonsensical concession as we would leave a goal unaccomplished for little gain. At this point, GOONS don't require as much aid and will require less as it goes on and most of our upper tier nations can rebuild without much worry while preserving their warchest intregrity. Giving the peace mode strategy a victory is not in our interests when in the long run, it won't be beneficial for your side.

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1300361202' post='2667583']
There is no incentive for ending the war while the upper tiers who have been in peace mode the entire time have not fought. It would be stupid and give the PM strategy a victory, which sets not only a bad precedent, but would be a nonsensical concession as we would leave a goal unaccomplished for little gain. At this point, GOONS don't require as much aid and will require less as it goes on and most of our upper tier nations can rebuild without much worry while preserving their warchest intregrity. Giving the peace mode strategy a victory is not in our interests when in the long run, it won't be beneficial for your side.
[/quote]


Maybe this side feels that giving your absolutely unprovoked war of aggression any further validity by agreeing to terms that benefit you while destroying them isn't the best precedent to set either. It just sets precedent that DH/PB can do whatever you want when you want, everyone else on Bob just needs to learn to grab ankles and take it.

And sure your upper tier can rebuild it's infra. Tech will take longer to replace. Even at the best slot usage it still takes a while to replace thousands and thousands of tech and there are quite a number of MK and GOONs nations who have lost several thousand. Not to mention several that lost gigantic amounts of land, which in the current state will take years to replace if it ever gets replaced at all.

Edited March 17, 2011 by Vol Navy

[uaciaut]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1300360824' post='2667579']snip
[/quote]

Well then if we're in as much of a bad spot as you are then it shouldn't be a problem, should it?

[ChairmanHal]

Nice propaganda piece.

Oh and...Pacifica already did this once before.

Enjoy your war.

[Monster]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1300361720' post='2667586']
Maybe this side feels that giving your absolutely unprovoked war of aggression any further validity by agreeing to terms that benefit you while destroying them isn't the best precedent to set either. It just sets precedent that DH/PB can do whatever you want when you want, everyone else on Bob just needs to learn to grab ankles and take it.

And sure your upper tier can rebuild it's infra. Tech will take longer to replace. Even at the best slot usage it still takes a while to replace thousands and thousands of tech and there are quite a number of MK and GOONs nations who have lost several thousand. Not to mention several that lost gigantic amounts of land, which in the current state will take years to replace if it ever gets replaced at all.
[/quote]

In that case, there is no interest for your side to seek peace given it's known that this will be a precondition and has always been the case.

Losses are acceptable for winning the war. If we didn't want to incur losses at all that we'd have to repair, we wouldn't bother fighting whatsoever at any point. Ultimately, it wouldn't make sense to let the PM strategy work.

[Letum]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1300361202' post='2667583']
There is no incentive for ending the war while the upper tiers who have been in peace mode the entire time have not fought. It would be stupid and give the PM strategy a victory, which sets not only a bad precedent, but would be a nonsensical concession as we would leave a goal unaccomplished for little gain. At this point, GOONS don't require as much aid and will require less as it goes on and most of our upper tier nations can rebuild without much worry while preserving their warchest intregrity. Giving the peace mode strategy a victory is not in our interests when in the long run, it won't be beneficial for your side.
[/quote]

Yes, I am sure most people are well aware that inflicting crippling damage on us would accomplish your war goals, and promote your national interest. But self-interest does not tend to be a very widely liked excuse for ruthlessness, particularly amongst the people it is inflicted on. And in the end, I suspect that our goals for this war might be slightly different than yours, which combined by a complete lack of trust in anything a group of unwarranted aggressors with (what we see as) a history of lying have to say - well, that leaves us at an impasse.

[Lusitan]

Ok, so NPO have the strategic point of keeping their upper tier in peace mode to avoid destruction. I can understand that. We have the strategic point of keeping the siege on peace mode nations until we can achieve the strategic victory. You may argue all you want, but our position is far better than theirs. Don't give me !@#$ that it would be any different if the war had been started in a different way, it wouldn't. Now we can all stay here looking at each other's face or NPO can recognize our superior position, fight for a month and then all of us go home.

[Alaric]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1300334058' post='2666890']
...We continue to be patient in dispelling the myth built around us, a myth that keeps the exhausted troops of Hopeless in the trenches, but our patience will soon give way to prosecution. So too will the cowardly strategy against GOONS be met with punishment, though modest. Even those who so sought to break the Goonland will find their terms to be of fair reparations or be given fair, and even beneficial, methods to render them all but nonexistant...[/quote]

I hope you will excuse my ignorance as I've been involved in the 'other' front...

A. So, you don't accept that NPO has changed - and so you seek to emulate the "Old" NPO?

B. What is the cowardly strategy against GOONS? When you start a war shouldn't you expect counters from your target's allies?

C. [OOC] Also should America gird herself for an attack from England in retaliation of the 'rebellion' in 1776? [/OOC]

[Alterego]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1300334058' post='2666890']
[center][img]http://www.mspaintadventures.com/storyfiles/hs2/03645_2.gif[/img][/center]

Good evening.

Once again the CyberVerse finds itself embroiled in a conflict nearing its conclusion. On one end of the world, the battle of jungle and tundra has drawn to a close, the forces of Viridia departed from defeated Polaris. On the other end, war rages on, as the forces of Doomhouse and Pacifica continue to grind against one another in a battle of lower-tier attrition. This fight is notable in the history of our world.

1. In order to finance its outnumbered soldiers in the lower ranks, Doomhouse and its allies have for the past month maintained the largest aid operation in history, funneling over $5.3 billion dollars into the coffers of brave Kingdom and GOON nations, along with millions of soldiers to fight where they are most needed.

2. We have witnessed the departure of Ragnarok from the storied SuperFriends bloc after choosing to defend Polaris over all others.

3. Polaris and Viridia made peace without reparations or apologies. Never before has the central front of a global conflict ended in such a way.

4. Never before has Peace Mode been utilized in so sweeping a manner in global warfare, the forces of the Hopeless Coalition dividing their troops into upper and lower, securing their strength while swarming with the weak.

And finally, last night Pacifica learned of the fate demanded by our leaders: abandon peace mode, fight for one month, and surrender without further terms. They must fight this war. No more. No less.

At long last the dream of the Kingdom and Doomhouse grows manifest--that we may have a world free of the cruel emotion and crippling condemnation that so dominates our past. That we may fight with one another in the pursuance of strategic goals without everlasting annihilation. That we may live without those who set the standards of misery and fear that so long ruled us, that so long required retribution.

The enemy still resists, however. Even now scattered forces in the Hopeless Coalition refuse the generous peace initiatives of our governments or work to convince their allies to do the same. Rumors of our generosity and patience are fought with speeches of paranoia and armageddon. Fallen emperors and defeated tyrants still cling to the spectre of an apocalyptic coalition permanently arranged against them, all the while refusing our kindness out of pride while guilting allies into doing the same. They will fail and fall, in due time. Those who do not bend will find themselves broken beyond all repair.

This does not however mean a world without consequences. Though we seek to be kind, we must still be just. Those who avoid war out of cowardice and those who seek to prolong the suffering of their people through continued conflict will find punitives piling against them. We continue to be patient in dispelling the myth built around us, a myth that keeps the exhausted troops of Hopeless in the trenches, but our patience will soon give way to prosecution. So too will the cowardly strategy against GOONS be met with punishment, though modest. Even those who so sought to break the Goonland will find their terms to be of fair reparations or be given fair, and even beneficial, methods to render them all but nonexistant.

Our accomplishments are not absolute, nor are they perfect. Already this battle has revealed much work remains to be done in spreading our vision of the world. But in time, all will see the light that is our message, shining from the depths of the Box.

We near the end. The end of forced disbandment. The end of terms that cripple alliances forever. The end of silence for fear of persecution. The end of the influence of those who would overthrow these goals in favor of their own return to power. The end of cowardice. The end of myth and fear. The end of this war.

We will endure. We will prevail. We will bring about these ends.

Signed,
[i]Ardus of the Mushroom Kingdom
Sardonic of the Goon Order of Oppression, Negligence, and Sadism
Natan of Umbrella[/i]
[/quote]

What a pile of crap. I expected nothing more from the MK cowards, brave when they have the world on their side and running away when heavily outnumbered re: UJW & BAPSwar. You suck so bad at pre-emptive strikes so need to beg them to come out of peace. You need them to help you because your pre-emptive strike that was proven wrong (they were never coming in) was pathetic. Now you want to destroy them and their allies and pretend its an end to hard times on Bob when all the hard times of the last 2 years from banned gov, greatest reps ever given twice, attacks on alliances for nothing but your own paranoia, attempts to disband an alliance, attempts at eternal war was all you and your allies.

This is not the end of all the bad, you said that 2 years ago in Karma then laughed and said you changed your mind. After what Ive seen in the last couple of months I would love to see Duckroll with NPO. We would probably be destroyed but its better than getting closer to anyone on your side in the future. I will do everything in my power to sabotage any attempt to move in that direction until alliances like MK, GOD, GOONS, Umbrella, VE and the rest cease to be a threat to alliances who have done nothing to warrant being attacked but are met with the eternal war these alliances find themselves in. There will be no happy tomorrow if this comes to pass just like there was no happy tomorrow after karma. You lied to people before and changed your story after karma. This is more of the same lies that will be rewritten and reinterpreted by you lot as something else when you come to stomp Duckroll or someone else for no reason. Once a liar always a liar, you lied after Karma and this is more of the same lies.

Edited March 17, 2011 by Alterego

[Doitzel]

This is all very disappointing. It highlights a lot of social flaws and differing mentalities at play. Pacific using mass peacemode is not unexpected but reeks of the "pragmatic" defiance you'd expect from the newer generation than the spirited tooth-and-nail fight the old NPO would've given. The élite there remains largely intact, it seems, and just as unwilling to bear the brunt when they can order others to do so. On the other side of the token, Pacific has good reason to distrust [i]people who attacked them for no reason[/i]. If this war was justified by anything other than vengeance you failed to execute in the past -- when you didn't hold all the cards in your hand -- I could see these terms being more reasonable. It's sort of how FAN had a lot of reason to tell Pacific to jump up their own ass for this kind of "offer".

And self-righteousness never was your strong point, Ardus. You guys should stick to your fart jokes and MSPaint.

OOC: Peace mode is still the dumbest idea ever.

[Monster]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1300362865' post='2667596']
What a pile of crap. I expected nothing more from the MK cowards, brave when they have the world on their side and running away when heavily outnumbered re: UJW & BAPSwar. You suck so bad at pre-emptive strikes so need to beg them to come out of peace. You need them to help you because your pre-emptive strike that was proven wrong (they were never coming in) was pathetic. Now you want to destroy them and their allies and pretend its an end to hard times on Bob when all the hard times of the last 2 years from banned gov, greatest reps ever given twice, attacks on alliances for nothing but your own paranoia, attempts to disband an alliance, attempts at eternal war was all you and your allies.[/quote]

Actually, I have never to this day seen an official NPO clarification on their stance toward the VE-Polar war. It was never announced that they would have used non-chaining clauses to stay out of the conflict despite allies getting involved(Hm, could this not have easily been done in a DoN) for sure and even their own members don't know.

[quote]This is not the end of all the bad, you said that 2 years ago in Karma then laughed and said you changed your mind. After what Ive seen in the last couple of months I would love to see Duckroll with NPO. We would probably be destroyed but its better than getting closer to anyone on your side in the future. I will do everything in my power to sabotage any attempt to move in that direction until alliances like MK, GOD, GOONS, Umbrella, VE and the rest cease to be a threat to alliances who have done nothing to warrant being attacked but are met with the eternal war these alliances find themselves in. There will be no happy tomorrow if this comes to pass just like there was no happy tomorrow after karma. You lied to people before and changed your story after karma. This is more of the same lies that will be rewritten and reinterpreted by you lot as something else when you come to stomp Duckroll or someone else for no reason. Once a liar always a liar, you lied after Karma and this is more of the same lies.
[/quote]

Well for everyone's sake, I'm glad you're not a government official.

[applesauce59]

I am just curious when is MK going to come out of peace? Right now NPO has 35% of our nations in peace while, MK has 34%. So since your calling people out why don't you start pulling them out first.

[greenacres]

I'm not going to read the entire thread, but has it been pointed out already that the NPO once served up almost the exact same terms to someone they were at war with? I hope no one is crying about these terms and saying they're unfair/unprecedented

[Voytek]

[quote name='applesauce59' timestamp='1300364467' post='2667603']
I am just curious when is MK going to come out of peace? Right now NPO has 35% of our nations in peace while, MK has 34%. So since your calling people out why don't you start pulling them out first.
[/quote]
This has already been responded to, I've always found it helps to actually read threads before attempting mediocre callouts like this. Much less likely to end up with egg on your face.

[applesauce59]

[quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1300364956' post='2667606']
This has already been responded to, I've always found it helps to actually read threads before attempting mediocre callouts like this. Much less likely to end up with egg on your face.
[/quote]

To long to read. Basically it hasn't been responded to because the nations are still in peace. Your words have been proven to have no value, so some action would be nice.

[lamuella]

[quote name='applesauce59' timestamp='1300365286' post='2667609']
To long to read. Basically it hasn't been responded to because the nations are still in peace. Your words have been proven to have no value, so some action would be nice.
[/quote]

so what you're saying is that you didn't read the thread so there can't have been an answer? Do things not exist if you can't see them? Are you the baby in this cartoon?

[img]http://i56.tinypic.com/10d5dw5.gif[/img]

[Ryan Greenberg]

[quote name='greenacres' timestamp='1300364467' post='2667604']
I'm not going to read the entire thread, but has it been pointed out already that the NPO once served up almost the exact same terms to someone they were at war with? I hope no one is crying about these terms and saying they're unfair/unprecedented
[/quote]
Then why was Karma fought? Originally, it was fought to stop eternal wars, harsh reps, no CB wars, end Pacifica's Hegemony, etc, etc. DH can say all it wants on how "we're not as bad as NPO". That isn't the point. The point is, DH used a CB of

[quote]
We cannot allow any chance of a return to power by the New Pacific Order. For years they ruled with an iron fist. They engineered a multitude of first strike "curbstomps," the most grossly abusive among them being the glibly named Woodstock Masscre against the Green Protection Agency. Never one to face an enemy with an even remote chance of victory, and always one to beat on the weak and the vulnerable, the New Pacific Order was a true master of the first strike attack. They could not only beat down the weak, but they had maneuvered the politics of the day such that they could do so with impunity.[/quote]

They were afriad NPO would return to NPO circa 2008. They had no proof other than a long and heated rivalry/grudge(clearly a weak CB). NPO doesn't need to succumb to the demands of the enemy who hate them(IC of course). Just like how FAN didn't need to listen to NPO. How does this make DH "the good guys"?

Edited March 17, 2011 by Ryan Greenberg

[Balkan Banania]

[quote name='greenacres' timestamp='1300364467' post='2667604']
I'm not going to read the entire thread, but has it been pointed out already that the NPO once served up almost the exact same terms to someone they were at war with? I hope no one is crying about these terms and saying they're unfair/unprecedented
[/quote]
I believe that this card has been overplayed during the Karma war; you can’t use it for ever, or if you want to try adding something original.
For the matter in hand, DH propose a path for us to achieve peace, we feel that it is not in our best interest, so we (kindly ) reject it.

[[i]OOC: I liked the cartoon; it seems a rather accurate description of the father – child interaction OOC[/i]]

[Ardus]

[quote name='Doitzel' timestamp='1300363682' post='2667599']
This is all very disappointing. It highlights a lot of social flaws and differing mentalities at play. Pacific using mass peacemode is not unexpected but reeks of the "pragmatic" defiance you'd expect from the newer generation than the spirited tooth-and-nail fight the old NPO would've given. The élite there remains largely intact, it seems, and just as unwilling to bear the brunt when they can order others to do so. On the other side of the token, Pacific has good reason to distrust [i]people who attacked them for no reason[/i]. If this war was justified by anything other than vengeance you failed to execute in the past -- when you didn't hold all the cards in your hand -- I could see these terms being more reasonable. It's sort of how FAN had a lot of reason to tell Pacific to jump up their own ass for this kind of "offer".

And self-righteousness never was your strong point, Ardus. You guys should stick to your fart jokes and MSPaint.

OOC: Peace mode is still the dumbest idea ever.
[/quote]
But I toned down the self-righteousness. You didn't even see the first draft.

As for our word, Pacifica doesn't have to trust our word. They need only trust the facts. What the hell do we gain by agreeing to X and then doing Y when they come out of peace mode? This goes back to the list earlier that devolved into a Sith [i]arguing in favor of us imposing reparations.[/i]