A Statement from Doomhouse

[JT Jag]

[quote name='ShotgunWilly' timestamp='1300336189' post='2666991']
('cause, lets face it, GOONS is a shadow of what it was [i]antebellum[/i])
[/quote]Statistically we are reduced, but we have 100 more members now than we did before the war started, and 118 more in our applicant AA. It's not unrealistic for us to have 400 members by the time this war is over, and none of them ghosts (because who would ghost GOONS of all AAs right now?).

Considering that most of our nations don't need to go far to be rebuilt to where they were pre-war, we're hardly a "shadow" of what we were. I'd say we're poised for explosive growth after this war ends, actually.

[Joseph Black]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1300345204' post='2667395']
Because calling for a one-on-one fight was a PR attack of desperation when I did it back in GCW and it is no less so now. Nobody does such things and anybody who agreed to do so would be an idiot.

Besides, history shows what happens when the Kingdom and the Order fight in different circumstances. The Kingdom thrashed the Order, along with the Entente and Echelon, in NoCB despite being tremendously outnumbered. We of course surrendered by virtue of the same realities visible here--we were outnumbered and could not have possibly won in any formal sense--but the results are helpful for considering the outcome of a hypothetical. MK would win.

But that is neither here nor there.
[/quote]

Thank you, given your current position of power, now would be the time to prove your point once and for all, but I understand where your coming from. Honor is a double edge sword, just because you have it doesn't mean your opponent does.

[General Scipio]

[quote name='The Warrior' timestamp='1300345444' post='2667409']
Hmm this sounds vaguely familiar.
Gramlins: "accept our proposal of unconditional surrender or face eternal war."

[/quote]
There is a difference between unconditional surrender and literally no surrender terms. GAH! Why can't people understand something so simple.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1300345397' post='2667406']
So you are basically saying that you're completely confidant in your victory, but refuse to consider the idea despite said confidence. Yeah. That makes sense.
[/quote]
Yeah, given the choice of winning by a little or winning by a lot, I'm picking "a lot". No sense.

[Earogema]

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1300345532' post='2667415']
The fight has been no less real than the Polar-VE fight. Ask NPO and the Hopeless Coalition if this fight has been 'real' for them.
[/quote]
You don't lose 50% of your NS in a fake fight. Unless you like mass ghost or something.

[D34th]

[quote name='General Scipio' timestamp='1300345036' post='2667390']
The difference is FAN was not offered terms. NPO has been. This is a stupid argument and you are stupid for using it.
[/quote]

You are stupid, for calling me stupid for using a stupid argument!

Both situations still are simila, NPO tried to punish FAN with eternal war and failed. DH promises to punish NPO with eternal war if they don't leave peace mode, what make you think that they won't fail soon or later too? The long that this war last will damage both side, while peace mode hurts NPO nations, each aid slot used to sent aid to GOONS is hurting MK/Umbrella capacity of doing their precious tech deals and if not, their warchests too.

Edited March 17, 2011 by D34th

[Hereno]

[quote name='TrotskysRevenge' timestamp='1300343590' post='2667338']
A day lat and a dolar short. We did that, in privat to FAN and to a hevily-trold thred on the OWF abot a wek or so ago.
[/quote]

Responding to this because you're the 5th person to quote that;

Yeah, I may or may not have forgotten about that thread.

Carry on.

[Joseph Black]

[quote name='General Scipio' timestamp='1300345523' post='2667414']
No, I'm calling him stupid because it's stupid to compare something to nothing. NPO has terms, FAN never did. You cannot compare the situations. This isn't even comparing apples and oranges, this is comparing apples to literally nothing and thinking the comparison is vaild.
[/quote]

While FAN was never offered terms, this situation is much the same. I'll cross over my points about no way Pacifica could ever count on your word. If this is a trap, which it could very well be, Pacifica isn't getting real terms either, they are just being called out, which Pacifica did quiet often toward FAN.

[Dagrr]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1300345370' post='2667403']
Incorrect, as I've stated repeatedly in this thread.

[b]After one month of war NPO can take peace whenever it wants it. It will be given, no further demands made.[/b]

If the war continues beyond one month it would be by Pacifica's choice, not our own. That is the "give or take a few days".
[/quote]

By the logic your myriad followers are spewing: it's our choice if we don't come out of peacemode, therefore it's our choice that the war continues. Let us put aside the fact that we didn't choose this war. You, after all, declared war on us.

Please explain why you would not offer ridiculous Karma scale reps at the end of 1 month and after we reject said reps, why the war would not continue, by "our choice"?

[Masterof9puppets]

[quote name='Earogema' timestamp='1300345655' post='2667421']
You don't lose 50% of your NS in a fake fight. Unless you like mass ghost or something.
[/quote]

If you read what he quoted, you just argued for him.
As in, yes, that is exactly what CSM was saying.

[Varianz]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1300345617' post='2667420']
Yeah, given the choice of winning by a little or winning by a lot, I'm picking "a lot". No sense.
[/quote]
My point was that you're making a claim, with no evidence, and then refusing to back it up. I could just as easily claim that NPO would, in your words, thrash MK.

[General Scipio]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1300345720' post='2667424']
You are stupid, for calling me stupid for using a stupid argument!

Both situations still are similar even, NPO tried to punish FAN with eternal war and failed. DH promises to punish NPO with eternal war if they don't leave peace mode, what make you think that they won't fail soon or later too? The long that this war last will damage both side, while peace mode hurts NPO nations, each aid slot used to sent aid to GOONS is hurting MK/Umbrella capacity of doing their precious tech deals and if not, their warchests too.
[/quote]It's not being punished with eternal war when you have a reasonable means to leave the war. The situations cannot be compared. Also, you seem to think that the MK/Umbrella aid is needed to keep fighting the war. It really isn't anymore, The Hopeless Coalition is not declaring many new wars. We can pretty much just rebuild with the aid now. Eventually we'll be rebuilt while still at war and MK and co can go back to buying tech


[quote name='Muddog' timestamp='1300345739' post='2667426']
While FAN was never offered terms, this situation is much the same. I'll cross over my points about no way Pacifica could ever count on your word. If this is a trap, which it could very well be, Pacifica isn't getting real terms either, they are just being called out, which Pacifica did quiet often toward FAN.
[/quote]
It's not a trap, get over it.

[TrotskysRevenge]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1300343971' post='2667350']
I only cited the top 61 since it's a glaring and compelling example. Many more of your nations hide in peace mode, the overwhelming majority of which are your strong and capable. I do not wish to thump your meek tiers in perpetuity. I wish to have our fight, the fight MK and NPO have always been destined to have, and end this.
[/quote]

The "overwheming majority" are nashuns who hav rotatd in and out of PM to restok, and continu to do so. As has ben pontd out, the % of NPO and MK nashuns are vere clos.

I am not gong to kestshun your persunl intenshun, Ardus. But I find it difikult to trust an organishun who starts out by wantng to wip NPO of the fac of Plant Bob (DOW) to now just wantng to fit our top ters for a "month or so", wher ther is no reson to trust. You, DH, atakd us preemtivly; and we ar to tak your (DH) words at fac valu? I think not.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

[quote name='Masterof9puppets' timestamp='1300345868' post='2667428']
If you read what he quoted, you just argued for him.
As in, yes, that is exactly what CSM was saying.
[/quote]


Except our Alliance has barely lost anyone since this war began. Especially compared to some of our enemies.. and we actively ghost bust. There were no ghosts to lose.

[Earogema]

[quote name='Masterof9puppets' timestamp='1300345868' post='2667428']
If you read what he quoted, you just argued for him.
As in, yes, that is exactly what CSM was saying.
[/quote]
Yeah I kinda thought about it a bit after I posted and figured that's what he meant.

However if the fight has been real already why would there be any reason to continue the war at the upper tier for 1 month?

[Jrenster]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1300345518' post='2667413']
I don't. I said I could see you setting aside our offer until acceptable terms could be secured for your allies. As in, you refuse the offer because you think our demands of others are too high or incomplete.
[/quote]

Right. But I would imagine that is part of the issue. Like I said, treating us as punching bags and your aggressions also factor in as well. I understand that you believe we will maintain our dignity if we walk away without any humiliating terms such as reparations or the like. But have you ever given thought that making any demands and us kowtowing to them is also unacceptable given the aforementioned factors?

[General Scipio]

[quote name='Henry' timestamp='1300345834' post='2667427']
By the logic your myriad followers are spewing: it's our choice if we don't come out of peacemode, therefore it's our choice that the war continues. Let us put aside the fact that we didn't choose this war. You, after all, declared war on us.

Please explain why you would not offer ridiculous Karma scale reps at the end of 1 month and after we reject said reps, why the war would not continue, by "our choice"?
[/quote]
I'm not a gov official, but would it be so hard to sign terms before? Something like

"On March 24th, 80% of NPO's upper teir are out of peace mode. On April 24th, white peace will be declared

Signed DH

NPO"

[Joseph Black]

[quote name='General Scipio' timestamp='1300345956' post='2667430']
It's not a trap, get over it.
[/quote]

What do you have to lose if it is? What do they have to lose if it is? That alone is enough to make anybody reject these terms.

[TrotskysRevenge]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1300345287' post='2667400']
You are incorrect. Both the Federation and Nordreich attended and agreed to the offer in the formal meeting with your leaders.
[/quote]

Oh rely? Then wher ar ther statmnts and posts to that efek in this thred?

[King Charge]

I hope you both go down and make way for a new superpower. I've grown tired of the current one. Where's the pop corn? I finally know how GPA feels!

[Maelstrom Vortex]

What are words on paper really? When there is no trust?

[General Scipio]

[quote name='Muddog' timestamp='1300346119' post='2667436']
What do you have to lose if it is? What do they have to lose if it is? That alone is enough to make anybody reject these terms.
[/quote]
DH would have a lot more to lose if it was a trap. No one would ever believe anything we ever said ever. Look at Polar in Bi-Polar. In the end they lost a hell of a lot more than TOP with their crooked actions.

[Dagrr]

[quote name='General Scipio' timestamp='1300346084' post='2667435']
I'm not a gov official, but would it be so hard to sign terms before? Something like

"On March 24th, 80% of NPO's upper teir are out of peace mode. On April 24th, white peace will be declared

Signed DH

NPO"
[/quote]

I'm not under the impression that white peace with specific dates was on the table.

But if it was, I'm sure one of your gov can correct me.

[Masterof9puppets]

[quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1300345992' post='2667432']
Except our Alliance has barely lost anyone since this war began. Especially compared to some of our enemies.. and we actively ghost bust. There were no ghosts to lose.
[/quote]

Is this supposed to make sense?

[quote name='Earogema' timestamp='1300346004' post='2667433']
Yeah I kinda thought about it a bit after I posted and figured that's what he meant.

However if the fight has been real already why would there be any reason to continue the war at the upper tier for 1 month?
[/quote]

The war has hardly been real for the nations that have been hidden in peace mode since before war was even declared.

[D34th]

[quote name='General Scipio' timestamp='1300345956' post='2667430']
It's not being punished with eternal war when you have a reasonable means to leave the war. The situations cannot be compared. Also, you seem to think that the MK/Umbrella aid is needed to keep fighting the war. It really isn't anymore, The Hopeless Coalition is not declaring many new wars. We can pretty much just rebuild with the aid now. Eventually we'll be rebuilt while still at war and MK and co can go back to buying tech
[/quote]

The fact that your side started the war without any proven reason make any claims that your side make unreasonable. It's only DH's fault and incompetence if they failed to destroy NPO upper tie and it's totally unfair try to punish NPO because of that.