A Statement from Doomhouse

[Systemfailure]

[quote name='Balkan Banania' timestamp='1300366084' post='2667619']
I believe that this card has been overplayed during the Karma war; you can’t use it for ever, or if you want to try adding something original.
For the matter in hand, DH propose a path for us to achieve peace, we feel that it is not in our best interest, so we (kindly ) reject it.

[/quote]
Offer tabled, Offer Rejected.You would think this matter would be closed but [s]25[/s] 26 pages later same discussion is being played out
DH: come out of peace mode and fight
NPO:no thats dumb we'll get bashed
DH: thats the point,your Peace mode is making this war boring
NPO: so? what do you want us to do about it?
Repeat.
i would love to see NPO drag out this war simply so the rest of Bob has something to talk about other then treaties and Peace Mode...which is the dumbest thing ever invented

*edit*it seems im part of the problem

Edited March 17, 2011 by Systemfailure

[Rocky Horror]

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORifieiZiP4]Come out ye black and blues![/url]

Edited March 17, 2011 by Rocky Horror

[Sephiroth]

You spreading your vision of what the world should be and accomplishing the ends you hope to achieve would be a tragedy for Planet Bob, therefore the resistance will prevail fighting for what is right and freedom from the control Doomhouse hopes to achieve.

o/ The Resistance, fight on fellow freedom fighters!

[janax]

[quote name='Minilla Island' timestamp='1300340602' post='2667184']
Second point, those nations that are in hippy are usually banking nations. Those are the guys who help rebuild after a war. it has long been accepted strategy for banking nations to drop into hippy for the duration of the war. :et's be real here, you have zero intentions of letting NPO rebuild. Why not just admit that and spare us the hyperbole?
[/quote]

2007 called. They would like their nation building guides back. YOu have failed as an alliance if you need dedicated banks to rebuild your alliance after a war.
Anyone above AT A MINIMUM of 50K with full trades, who can't send out aid packages even after a 4-8 week war, is doing it wrong and they should feel bad, because they are bad.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Systemfailure' timestamp='1300366701' post='2667622']
Offer tabled, Offer Rejected.You would think this matter would be closed but [s]25[/s] 26 pages later same discussion is being played out
DH: come out of peace mode and fight
NPO:no thats dumb we'll get bashed
DH: thats the point,your Peace mode is making this war boring
NPO: so? what do you want us to do about it?
Repeat.[/quote]

We had this conversation before as well as I was pointing out earlier.

NPO implored FAN to "come out and fight" on any number of occasions during FAN's extended stay in PM. They even came to these very forums and stated that FAN would be given peace if they would come out and fight for a specific period of time/number of rounds.

FAN was smarter than that.

We (Planet Bob) spent hour upon hour debating it. It changed nothing.

[quote]i would love to see NPO drag out this war simply so the rest of Bob has something to talk about other then treaties and Peace Mode...which is the dumbest thing ever invented[/quote]

[i]OOC: We can debate the realism, affects on playability, other OOC aspects as related to whether Peace Mode should exist in game for 20+ pages in the Suggestion Box area if you want. Suffice to say that it's a game rule, we all exploit it, some more ruthlessly than others, and now it not the time to change the rules. It is simply a condition of play.[/i]

Keep in mind that if PM didn't exist, FAN would not be here. At least it would not have survived as an alliance for all that time otherwise.

The smart move would be to declare the war stalemated and end it.

[i]OOC: Instead this is ever so slowly becoming CN's Korean War or World War I.[/i]

Meanwhile at Valhalla our mead production facilities had to be expanded recently, as did our production of high quality lounge chairs...the cheap ones were breaking because our asses were getting too fat.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1300349300' post='2667491']
I'm kind of curious about this too. It's not like you have to stop tech-dealing or your own internal aid programs while getting reps. I'm more inclined to believe that the DH alliances know it would be political suicide to charge NPO reps, and are making excuses for not doing so.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Actually, if you read one of Ardus' posts, he did admit that as well.

Also, Varianz, seems you have a different definition of efficiency than Umbrella. Whereas you're thinking of the cost, Umbrella is concerned with the time period. Three million is nothing to those nations, but the timing is necessary. Sure, reps might run them over ten or so days, but that adds up over cycles. Umbrella doesn't want to have to deal with NPO to coordinate its tech in flow pretty much, especially since it is harder to be more punctual and reliable than GOONS is at delivering.[/color]

Edited March 17, 2011 by Rebel Virginia

[Alterego]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1300364213' post='2667602']
Actually, I have never to this day seen an official NPO clarification on their stance toward the VE-Polar war. It was never announced that they would have used non-chaining clauses to stay out of the conflict despite allies getting involved(Hm, could this not have easily been done in a DoN) for sure and even their own members don't know.[/quote]

Joke or not you always knew they weren't coming in.

[quote name='VenetianBlind' timestamp='1300072649' post='2664012']
We expected NPOs allies to join the war, and then the NPO herself. Rather than allow them to hit us on our weakest front and potentially change the outcome of that war, on January 24th 2011, we preemptively struck the NPO. It was only on January 25th that we realized, to our horror, that NPO and their allies were not going to join the war against PB!
[/quote]


[quote]Well for everyone's sake, I'm glad you're not a government official.
[/quote]
Feel free to ignore the Archon new dawn/end to draconian reps thread. Lies were told back then that this was being done to change everything and end bad practices against other alliances. You then spent 2 years doing everything you fought against except viceroy, which cant be done any more and forced disbanding, which was being pursued early in this war by GOD and Co (no peace for UPN ring a bell?). Luckily for UPN GODs dream wasn’t realised. Now we have the same speech rehashed, promising an end to everything you have done [u]by you guys[/u] in the last 2 years by attacking someone for no reason during a war in which the CB was manufactured but only some alliances who did nothing will take a month long beat down for no reason besides the fact you want to crush them.

There will be no better tomorrow, you will break or rewrite all these promises the way you did after karma. The same lies told by the same people 2 years later and you expect anyone to believe you? You think NPO or anyone will believe you wont come back a third time when they rebuild? Liars have no credibility, especially when they use the same lies that were already told.

[Rocky Horror]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1300369090' post='2667643']
Joke or not you always knew they weren't coming in.[/quote]For what it's worth, you're wrong.

[Heft]

[quote name='Systemfailure' timestamp='1300366701' post='2667622']
Offer tabled, Offer Rejected.You would think this matter would be closed but [s]25[/s] 26 pages later same discussion is being played out
DH: come out of peace mode and fight
NPO:no thats dumb we'll get bashed
DH: thats the point,your Peace mode is making this war boring
NPO: so? what do you want us to do about it?
Repeat.
i would love to see NPO drag out this war simply so the rest of Bob has something to talk about other then treaties and Peace Mode...which is the dumbest thing ever invented

*edit*it seems im part of the problem
[/quote]
You see this is why this thread confused me, and what I already mentioned pages ago. I haven't seen the "come out of peace" terms actually be rejected. This thread sounds like it is responding to decisions that haven't even been made. It's some weird propaganda piece that doesn't address any actual current issues, and instead seems to create or invent a few issues in order to address them, while also for some reason associating Doomhouse with the Polar peace process even though that's a completely unrelated issue and has nothing to do with this peace (The only way it could is if they said "I guess the war is over time to go home now" which they aren't doing).

Those terms haven't been refused. Concerns have been raised, mainly having to do with why anyone should actually trust Doomhouse to stick by them once people are out of peace mode.

Naturally, in this thread arguments have also been made that the terms, even if they are "light," aren't really necessary, which is true. No one on this side of the war deserves any terms, and any terms imposed on us are clearly unjustified. But I think most of us realize that isn't going to halt the imposition of terms. If Doomhouse wants those upper tier nations out, then that is still an open possibility, they're just going to have to do something to convince NPO and others that they will stick by their word.

[daggarz]

When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

o/ Pacifica and allies

[greenacres]

[quote name='Balkan Banania' timestamp='1300366084' post='2667619']
I believe that this card has been overplayed during the Karma war; you can’t use it for ever, or if you want to try adding something original.
For the matter in hand, DH propose a path for us to achieve peace, we feel that it is not in our best interest, so we (kindly ) reject it.

[[i]OOC: I liked the cartoon; it seems a rather accurate description of the father – child interaction OOC[/i]]
[/quote]

You do realize that every alliance that's attacking you, is an alliance that the NPO either once forced to disband, forced their former selves to disband, or tried unsuccessfully to force to disband? You can't rightfully claim the moral highground and hide behind the karma war nonsense when you haven't paid for your crimes against these alliances. They're using your own tactics against you, I suggest you humble yourselves, realize how $%&@ed up your own tactics were, and just be genuine in your response to those alliances.

Edited March 17, 2011 by greenacres

[Alterego]

[quote name='greenacres' timestamp='1300370507' post='2667660']
You do realize that every alliance that's attacking you, is an alliance that the NPO either once forced to disband, forced their former selves to disband, or tried to force to disband? You can't rightfully claim the moral highground and hide behind the karma war nonsense when you haven't paid for your crimes against these alliances. They're using your own tactics against you, I suggest you humble yourselves, realize how $%&@ed up your own tactics were, and just be genuine in your response to those alliances.
[/quote]
They have the moral high ground because the slate was wiped clean after karma. NPO were attacked for no reason and are to be kept in peace mode as an alliance or beat on for a month-AFTER THE END OF THE WAR. The reason they were attacked? People thought they were going to enter the war. Well the war is over and now they have been told they need to take a month long beat down for doing nothing. The war is over, there is no reason to keep them at war any longer besides personal vendettas that were apparently cleared during karma. Now they want just one more beat down before they deliver on the promises they broke 2 years ago. They might not be historically moral but they have the moral high ground now thanks to the lies and actions of DH/PB.

[daggarz]

[quote name='greenacres' timestamp='1300370507' post='2667660']
You do realize that every alliance that's attacking you, is an alliance that the NPO either once forced to disband, forced their former selves to disband, or tried unsuccessfully to force to disband? You can't rightfully claim the moral highground and hide behind the karma war nonsense when you haven't paid for your crimes against these alliances. They're using your own tactics against you, I suggest you humble yourselves, realize how $%&@ed up your own tactics were, and just be genuine in your response to those alliances.
[/quote]

Different people in charge nowdays (mostly). Would you ask the americans to die for killing the american indians?

[KahlanRahl]

Despite the sunny weather and it being St. Patty's Day in Mathaias's beautiful capital of Renwold, I was feeling a little blue. I would like to personally thank you for cheering up my morning, because in all honesty, when this memo made it to my desk, it made me chuckle quite a bit.

Really now. [i]"The end of the influence of those who would overthrow these goals in favor of their own return to power"[/i]? [i]"The end of myth and fear[/i]"? Have you guys looked in a mirror lately? I don't know about others but, I haven't seen any reason to fear the Old Hegemony in oh... somewhere around two years? I think you're letting your paranoid delusions run away with your imagination. Edited March 17, 2011 by KahlanRahl

[Judge X]

So GOONs think they are going to make us pay reps for honoring a treaty? I'm fine with that as long as any alliance on their side that joined after the initial Doom House attack pays an equal amount of reps back to us. Better yet they can just pay the GOOnS our reps to cut out the middle man. I think all should be forced to act upon their logic. ODN now has to do CoJ's reps to 64digits for the same reason and I expect to get my check in the mail from Athens as soon as this is all over. After all they Honored their treaty. The mere posting of this thread show's how desperate that these idiots are becoming to save some face. They just keep looking more and more like school yard bullies. Well, you ain't getting my lunch money. Come and take it. I'm waiting. Until then I'll just keep surviving off of Parasol's aid drops.

Semper Fidelis
All it takes for is a few marines to stand up for what is right. Then this will truly be war. Where are you at?

[EViL0nE]

On the bright side, alliances currently not warring have a much larger tech seller pool to choose from due to the VE/Polar war and all/most of Umbrella/MKs slots being used to funnel cash to GOONS. I'd say the longer NPO et al can keep them at war, the better for every tech buying nation not involved.

[Monster]

[quote name='EViL0nE' timestamp='1300371380' post='2667674']
On the bright side, alliances currently not warring have a much larger tech seller pool to choose from due to the VE/Polar war and all/most of Umbrella/MKs slots being used to funnel cash to GOONS. I'd say the longer NPO et al can keep them at war, the better for every tech buying nation not involved.
[/quote]

You do realize we'd being doing a lot of it with GOONS to begin with, so it doesn't change that dynamic to a great degree and it's been noted that aid to GOONS is becoming superfluous gradually, so actually even if it keeps dragging out, it won't have that effect.

Edited March 17, 2011 by Antoine Roquentin

[Alterego]

Is Doomhouse at war with Duckroll? Duckroll didnt fight in the war despite having individual treaties that could have brought us in. If NPO are being punished for trying to stay out of this war why arent you at war or trying to punish Duckroll?

[Monster]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1300371809' post='2667680']
Is Doomhouse at war with Duckroll? Duckroll didnt fight in the war despite having individual treaties that could have brought us in. If NPO are being punished for trying to stay out of this war why arent you at war or trying to punish Duckroll?
[/quote]

Easy. Duckroll hates NpO and had treaty links to our side. NPO was cheering NpO on the entire time and the only link to our side they or any of their allies had was Hydra, who they refused to support due to being committed already.

Edited March 17, 2011 by Antoine Roquentin

[greenacres]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1300371087' post='2667666']
They have the moral high ground because the slate was wiped clean after karma. NPO were attacked for no reason and are to be kept in peace mode as an alliance or beat on for a month-AFTER THE END OF THE WAR. The reason they were attacked? People thought they were going to enter the war. Well the war is over and now they have been told they need to take a month long beat down for doing nothing. The war is over, there is no reason to keep them at war any longer besides personal vendettas that were apparently cleared during karma. Now they want just one more beat down before they deliver on the promises they broke 2 years ago. They might not be historically moral but they have the moral high ground now thanks to the lies and actions of DH/PB.
[/quote]

Boohoo, cry me a river. Same tactics they used to use on other alliances. Again, boohoo, it's so sad.

[Judge X]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1300372015' post='2667683']
Easy. Duckroll hates NpO. NPO was cheering NpO on the entire time.
[/quote]
They were? I seem to remember it being more like they were laughing at the Paper Dragon created by VE and saying that Little Doom House(VE) deserved a beat down for blatant fabrication and sheer lack of even trying to resolve the issue through diplomatic means.

Edited March 17, 2011 by Judge X

[Sir Humphrey]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1300364213' post='2667602']
Actually, I have never to this day seen an official NPO clarification on their stance toward the VE-Polar war. It was never announced that they would have used non-chaining clauses to stay out of the conflict despite allies getting involved(Hm, could this not have easily been done in a DoN) for sure and even their own members don't know.[/quote]
You mentioned this in the other thread, but the other thread was going a bit OT so I'll address it here. The [i]absence[/i] of any official clarification from one alliance regarding a war that does not currently affect them is not sufficient justification for characterising the DH declaration as a preemptive strike. Sure, you "preempted" a [i]possible[/i] outcome of treaty chains. However, if you follow your logic, you could just as easily have declared a "preemptive" strike on NPO before VE even declared on NpO, given your apparent foresight with regard to the treaty web.

As far as I can tell, you can point to no evidence that NPO actually planned to enter the conflict, or any action that would have prompted a "preemptive" strike. Thus, it seems difficult to sustain the argument that such a strike on an alliance is justified entirely based on the actions of third parties. As I mentioned, it is more logical that this war was always about addressing the balance of power and neutralising NPO as a potential threat at some point in the future, based on your assumptions regarding their intentions.

(Btw, wouldn't a DoNA be more appropriate than a DoN, given NPO's treaties were clearly not netural with regard to the PB/NpO war?)

[Zerileous]

warrrriors come out to plaaaaay

[Alterego]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1300372015' post='2667683']
Easy. Duckroll hates NpO. NPO was cheering NpO on the entire time.
[/quote]
Cheering NpO or any alliance during any war gets an alliance a month long beatdown [b]after [/b]the war, even if that alliance wasnt going to enter the war and/or got attacked for nothing?

If I produce pro NpO posts by DH members from the OWF are we then at war?

[Qazzian]

I haven't seen this addressed, so I'll ask and see what answer comes back.

If the NPO were to come out of peace mode and fight, what guarantee would we have that after 1 month (However it's defined, 4 weeks, 30/31 days...) we would not be kept in wars until you get bored? Right now, when I read the OP, I hear a muttered "Trust us" while you hide a dagger behind your back.