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A Statement from Doomhouse


Ardus

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[quote name='Caliph' timestamp='1300348015' post='2667472']
You misunderstand. It is not NPO's nations that fight and cycle out to peace mode that we are targetting with this. It is those nations that [b]have yet to fight[/b] this war and who have hidden in peace mode the entire time.
[/quote]

I know and I'm talking exactly about that, one of the functions of preemptive attacks is forbid the enemy nations to hide in peace mode. Isn't NPO fault if DH's members were so excited in attack NPO that started to talk about the attacks and make propaganda more than a week before of the attack happen, DH was predictable and incompetent in their preemptive attack and are the only one who should be blamed/punished for it.

Edited by D34th
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"Generous Peace Initiatives"? "Justice"? "Kindness"? Look, I can understand that you might find it fun to use pretty language to make yourselves look better, but there has to be a limit to how much you can try and spin what you're doing before you start to feel sick with yourself.

We know you have a goal of crippling us. You know it. Everybody knows it. Can you stop pretending you're doing anything other than ruthlessly pursuing your national goals? Please? It is pretty disturbing when the leadership of an alliance is consistently less honest than its membership.

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I have not read the entire thread so i apologise if this has been asked and answered before, should Pacifica decide to accept this 'offer' of 1 month of total war is it the forces that are currently arrayed or will others join your side, as surrending alliances from the VE front are not able to enter on NPO's side? Also what of Pacificas allies in this who are also fighting?

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Here's a fun mixture of truth and lies.

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1300341376' post='2667227']
Nobody is fighting? NPO is fighting 364 wars.[/quote]

True.

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1300341376' post='2667227']The fact is that DH is upset[/quote]

False.

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1300341376' post='2667227']they failed to destroy NPO's upper/middle tiers[/quote]

True.

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1300341376' post='2667227']who are in peace mode due own DH's incompetence[/quote]

False.

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1300341376' post='2667227']DH is afraid[/quote]

False.

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1300341376' post='2667227']look like stupids when the war finish[/quote]

False.

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1300341376' post='2667227']NPO speedily rebuild themselves.[/quote]

False.

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[quote name='youwish959' timestamp='1300348904' post='2667485']
What was the magical mathematical equation that determined reparations are inefficient?

Just curious.
[/quote]
I'm kind of curious about this too. It's not like you have to stop tech-dealing or your own internal aid programs while getting reps. I'm more inclined to believe that the DH alliances know it would be political suicide to charge NPO reps, and are making excuses for not doing so.

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[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1300349300' post='2667491']
I'm kind of curious about this too. It's not like you have to stop tech-dealing or your own internal aid programs while getting reps. I'm more inclined to believe that the DH alliances know it would be political suicide to charge NPO reps, and are making excuses for not doing so.
[/quote]

Umbrella, as you may have heard, makes it a top priority to get as high a slot efficiency as possible. In regular tech deals, both parties have a strong incentive to keep the payments on time and regular. In a reparations situation, the rep-payer has no incentive to pay on time. Slot efficiency suffers and therefore, tech importation suffers.

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So you keep the majority of your upper tier, where you're really outnumbered and outgunned in peace mode, put out the majority of the mid and low-mid tier up for fighting because you're actually outnumbering us there (enough so you can send them back to PM after they're done with a war) and expect us to give you peace just like that.

Boy you must think we're completely retarded.

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[quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1300349406' post='2667492']
Umbrella, as you may have heard, makes it a top priority to get as high a slot efficiency as possible. In regular tech deals, both parties have a strong incentive to keep the payments on time and regular. In a reparations situation, the rep-payer has no incentive to pay on time. Slot efficiency suffers and therefore, tech importation suffers.
[/quote]
No incentive, except, you know, the strict time-frames on when aid needs to be delivered by, and the threat of war hanging overhead. So yeah. Besides, if you're doing standard 3mil/100tech deals vs. reps, you gain the efficiency of a free slot by not having to send out any money to pay for the incoming tech, as it's free. So no, I don't really buy the whole "reps are inefficient" argument, because it doesn't make sense.

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[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1300338327' post='2667105']
MHA still uses bankers, one joined CoJ a while ago.
[/quote]
MHA also calls their nations who donate to aid chains every round outside of war bankers, I believe that this conversation is about the practice of having organised fleets of war time banking nations who go into peace mode purely for the purpose of not fighting so that they can send out aid at a later date.

I'm sure many alliances have nations who they put into peace mode due to having a poor warchest or not being active enough to fight, and some of those may send out aid when they come out of peace mode (any contribution is better than none), but that's different from the practice of having organised fleets of war-time banking nations deliberately staying out of war for the sole purpose of conserving money to send out aid at a later date.

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[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1300340351' post='2667177']
You are so slimy I should up your rep amount every time you lie about them. I see how you omit facts and try to confuse the issue. We were literally talking about this tonight so you can't possibly be so dense as to the think the citizens united term was anything more than an offhand joke, and you keep trying to spin the terms to be worse than they are. These are your offers:
[/quote]
Sardonic, meet Schattenmann.

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[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1300349694' post='2667496']
No incentive, except, you know, the strict time-frames on when aid needs to be delivered by, and the threat of war hanging overhead. So yeah. Besides, if you're doing standard 3mil/100tech deals vs. reps, you gain the efficiency of a free slot by not having to send out any money to pay for the incoming tech, as it's free. So no, I don't really buy the whole "reps are inefficient" argument, because it doesn't make sense.
[/quote]

Can't run the numbers right now because the stats are unavailable (due to Goonland Airlift) but the amount of reps that an alliance would have to move in a period of time to be more efficient than our current system would be so absurd that no alliance would ever agree to it. The amounts of reps we could even procure and the time period in which we would be able to set without alienating some of our allies would be far less efficient than what we're doing now.

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[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1300348224' post='2667479']
NSO has nations who have not yet fought. Can we too expect a demand that we expose them to a month of being stomped?
[/quote]

nobody cares about what happens to NSO's nations because NSO is already awful

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Basically no alliance can provide us with reps with the same efficiency that we can acquire tech ourselves. Why wait for inefficient alliances like NPO to send us tech when we can get it ourselves without delay?

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Your arguments about reps being "inefficient" really don't ring true, no matter how often you repeat them. I'll put it very simply: reps cost you nothing. Therefore, you don't have to waste a slot sending out money, and then wait ten days to get your tech- you just get free tech. Free being the operative word. You ask for X amount of reps, by Y date, as is customary in a peace agreement with reps. The alliance (NPO) must deliver the reps by that date, or they get rolled. Even if you only charge NPO, say, 1000 tech, it's still more efficient then buying tech, because they're sending you the money, free of charge. In order for reps to be less efficient, you would have to stop buying tech while getting reps, which would be stupid. Umbrella are not stupid.


[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1300350620' post='2667504']
nobody cares about what happens to NSO's nations because NSO is already awful
[/quote]
I think you missed the point.

Edited by Varianz
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[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1300351433' post='2667507']
Your arguments about reps being "inefficient" really don't ring true, no matter how often you repeat them. I'll put it very simply: reps cost you nothing. Therefore, you don't have to waste a slot sending out money, and then wait ten days to get your tech- you just get free tech. Free being the operative word. You ask for X amount of reps, by Y date, as is customary in a peace agreement with reps. The alliance (NPO) must deliver the reps by that date, or they get rolled. Even if you only charge NPO, say, 1000 tech, it's still more efficient then buying tech, because they're sending you the money, free of charge. In order for reps to be less efficient, you would have to stop buying tech while getting reps, which would be stupid. Umbrella are not stupid.
[/quote]
Getting tech for free isn't really a selling point since we aren't exactly short of money. The issue is whether we get the tech sent on the day it's due or whether we have to wait with open slots for two or three days every time waiting for the tech to be sent. History shows we can run our own tech buying system in conjunction with our excellent allies and sellers to great efficiency, we have little confidence that those who would be paying reps would be able to match this.

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[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1300351433' post='2667507']
Your arguments about reps being "inefficient" really don't ring true, no matter how often you repeat them. I'll put it very simply: reps cost you nothing. Therefore, you don't have to waste a slot sending out money, and then wait ten days to get your tech- you just get free tech. Free being the operative word. You ask for X amount of reps, by Y date, as is customary in a peace agreement with reps. The alliance (NPO) must deliver the reps by that date, or they get rolled. Even if you only charge NPO, say, 1000 tech, it's still more efficient then buying tech, because they're sending you the money, free of charge. In order for reps to be less efficient, you would have to stop buying tech while getting reps, which would be stupid. Umbrella are not stupid.



I think you missed the point.
[/quote]If the GOONS aid airlift has proven anything, it's that spending money means next to nothing to tech addicts like Umbrella and MK's upper tier. All they care about is how quickly they can get their next fix.

Edited by JT Jag
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[quote name='Kowalski' timestamp='1300351631' post='2667510']
Getting tech for free isn't really a selling point since we aren't exactly short of money. The issue is whether we get the tech sent on the day it's due or whether we have to wait with open slots for two or three days every time waiting for the tech to be sent. History shows we can run our own tech buying system in conjunction with our excellent allies and sellers to great efficiency, we have little confidence that those who would be paying reps would be able to match this.
[/quote]

But it's [i]free[/i].

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[quote name='Kowalski' timestamp='1300351631' post='2667510']
Getting tech for free isn't really a selling point since we aren't exactly short of money. The issue is whether we get the tech sent on the day it's due or whether we have to wait with open slots for two or three days every time waiting for the tech to be sent. History shows we can run our own tech buying system in conjunction with our excellent allies and sellers to great efficiency, we have little confidence that those who would be paying reps would be able to match this.
[/quote]
2-3 days times 3 aid cycles (number of aid cycles in a standard tech deal)= 6 to 9 days lost. That's below the 10 days you'd need to lose in order for it to be of equivalent efficiency to a standard tech deal. Still not correct.

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[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1300351801' post='2667513']
2-3 days times 3 aid cycles (number of aid cycles in a standard tech deal)= 6 to 9 days lost. That's below the 10 days you'd need to lose in order for it to be of equivalent efficiency to a standard tech deal. Still not correct.
[/quote]

There's a lot of assumptions you're still making, that all of the Umbrella slots will be filled all the time. When the winning coalition received reparations from TOP and its coalition in the BiPolar War, the reps were chronically late. This is coming from TOP, an alliance which is infinitely more organized than NPO. The fact is that NPO is not organized enough to even come close to the rate which we can maintain ourselves.

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[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1300348701' post='2667482']
DH was predictable and incompetent in their preemptive attack and are the only one who should be blamed/punished for it.
[/quote]
Just want to point out that judging by when they started getting to peace mode, they found out under 24 hours before it actually happened. Considering the timetable by which nation and alliance leaders tend to find these sorts of things out, I'd say we did a decent job of it.

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[quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1300352315' post='2667514']
There's a lot of assumptions you're still making, that all of the Umbrella slots will be filled all the time. When the winning coalition received reparations from TOP and its coalition in the BiPolar War, the reps were chronically late. This is coming from TOP, an alliance which is infinitely more organized than NPO. The fact is that NPO is not organized enough to even come close to the rate which we can maintain ourselves.
[/quote]
Actually, I'm assuming the opposite of the idea that all your slots will be filled all the time. Hence why you continue tech deals. Surely an alliance with your vaunted organizational skills shouldn't have trouble organizing both tech deals and reps payments.

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