A Message from the Emperor of the New Pacific Order

[ChairmanHal]

Is it my appointment as viceroy? I can't wait!

 

Anything for you.   ;)

 

not only is this an especially transparent statement given your current war situation, but it also shows that you haven't learned from your last major war that reps are foolish, and political sabotage. When is the last time anyone enforced reps of any kind and looked good by doing it? It's not in my nature to side with NPO on anything, but white peace should be the standard if an alliance is smart politically.


As to your big surprise, bring it on. It's no surprise to me.

 

The cool part here is that you made it all possible.  You say you want better terms for NPO?  It's a lie.  Sitting out of range of anyone willing to fight at NPO, the nations you attacked were harmless to them.  Now, you are in the process of putting us in range and as nations with a full set of wonders, we'll be far more damaging to Pacifica than most all the nations currently engaging them.

 

I learn very well, Cuba.  Valhalla wanted no reps in this fight, they only wanted to fulfill a commitment and peace out with everyone else.  But hey, you and your "pro players" knew better than everyone else what needed to be done to end the war.  Now, Pacifica gets to harvest the unintended consequences of your actions.  You from your loafy perch atop Planet Bob can only sit back and watch.  Hope you enjoy the show.

Edited January 26, 2014 by ChairmanHal

[D34th]

Is really a shame that Polaris, an alliance who suffered from the exactly same shameful surrender terms before, support TOP in this kind of fiasco. Power truly corrupts. 

[Hereno]

I didn't want to post but screw it. These infra heavy nations that you use as banks only sure have a lot of tech for just being banks. It's pretty obvious that the terms are meant to limit tech importation for these banks rather then rebuilding aid to the lower tier. If it was aimed at rebuilding aid it would be a blanket aid ban. But nice spin.

 

The Polardox coalition continues to state that its objective is not to prevent Pacifican rebuilding, but to prevent tech accumulation by NPO's bank nations. If this is the case, why not offer terms that allow sending aid for rebuilding, but not for receiving aid - especially technology aid? Not only does this make the point indisputable, but it would allow you to enforce a much longer duration against receiving tech aid than a term requiring no aid to or from NPO bank nations; especially one requiring those nations to stay in peace mode. And let me be clear - you're wrong about the bank nations not being bank nations; it's just that my post is more focused on your own faulty logic rather than directly attacking the premise of the argument.

 

The thing is, it's completely possible that you're entirely correct about what Polardox want, but that nobody over there was capable of thinking that up on their own. I honestly wouldn't be surprised given how things have gone so far. However, I'm fairly certain that you're just wrong.

[The Zigur]

Is really a shame that Polaris, an alliance who suffered from the exactly same shameful surrender terms before, support TOP in this kind of fiasco. Power truly corrupts. 

 

TOP wasn't seeking the terms when I was high govt.

[Azaghul]

On behalf of the ODN Senate and General Assembly, I'd like to say that the ODN values its honor and prides itself on its steadfast loyalty to friends and allies. To abandon allies on the battlefield is both dishonorable and disloyal so we'll be having none of that, thank you very much. Either way, if our positions were reversed, would NPO have abandoned us, or any of their other allies, to the mercy of the enemy? So, what you ask is ridiculous. Sure, our coalition has lost the war, but none of us have stooped to the level of the Polarlition(some of the more prominent examples would be IRON's backstabbing, LoSS inventing fake treaties, and Valhalla's pathetic "no-nuking" deal). Let's not change that.

Anyone who expects anything less from ODN is a fool.

[Nikolay]

You mean the one that NPO agreed to, and also held up their end of? I'm not saying it wasn't a reprehensible thing to do (I think it was pretty scummy tbh) but you're acting like Val just decided "we aren't going to nuke NPO because we feel like it!" and as though there wasn't a similar policy in place coming from Pacifica.

Yeah, that's the one. Are you implying the whole fiasco somehow reflects badly on NPO? I mean you are free to your own opinion obviously but could you explain your reasoning to me please?

 

 

Anyone who expects anything less from ODN is a fool.

<3 Azaghul. You really should visit our forums more often. You haven't posted there since yesterday!

Edited January 26, 2014 by Nikolay

[Goldie]

tl;dr:

"We want a cookie"

[Bob Ilyani]

Yeah, that's the one. Are you implying the whole fiasco somehow reflects badly on NPO? I mean you are free to your own opinion obviously but could you explain your reasoning to me please?

 

As poorly as it does on Valhalla. Making no nuke deals with your wartime opponents is a pretty shitty thing to do to your coalition, regardless of the circumstances.

[CubaQuerida]

A wise man once told me "Immoral Reps are Immortal". The point could not hold more true.

He then went on to rave about the unconquerable averageness of Korean women...

[Overlord Shinnra]

As poorly as it does on Valhalla. Making no nuke deals with your wartime opponents is a pretty !@#$%* thing to do to your coalition, regardless of the circumstances.

 

Except for the part where Valhalla is only at war with NPO so having no nukes doesn't effect anyone in the defending coalition whereas NPO not having to nuke Valhalla makes sure that they run out of nukes slower on others  in the attacking coalition. In other words... no it doesn't.

[Jesse End]

Did you really just try and spin my statement concerning the fact that nobody could pull that off to us being weak? You are something special. Stop dealing in unattributed statements that we all know aren't from Dajobo or relevant parties. Join us in reality, where we use logical scenarios and don't quote Tywinn as official coalition policy.

LOL that's not what I said at all.

[Bob Ilyani]

LOL that's not what I said at all.

Not surprising to see this kind of deep, thoughtful response from the guy with a Transformers Megan Fox avatar.

[Steve Buscemi]

Good stance Farrin.  We would never let you take those terms anyway.  Those are insane, unprecedented, and extremely punitive terms and equivalent to extremely ridiculous reparations.  No one should accept them.  Not even my worse enemy would see terms like that from me.  [OOC]And they should be against the ToS, making someone basically quit the game for nearly half a year[/OOC].

 

To add to it, these are basically terms you give an opponent that you know they'll have trouble keeping, so this is just designed to give NpO/TOP another CB on NPO.  Telling 33 nations to stay in peace mode for 4+ months and keeping them disciplined to not accidentally go to war mode or leave due to boredom. (Glad TOP/NpO have dropped the stupid PM term). It's disgusting.  And sad they were even offered.

Edited January 26, 2014 by Steve Buscemi

[The Zigur]

From tonight's talking points memo:

 

 

 

The Lannister Factor is on! Tonight:

 
 

 

"A peace that cripples us before the next war whilst allowing everyone else to recover is a peace that is worse than the status quo of continuing the war"

 

 

Emperor Farrin remains defiant in the face of defeat! Why prolong the war and refuse to negotiate? Tonight we will tell you in a no-spin talking points memo.

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Aloha, I am Tywin Lannister, and thank you for joining us tonight. Emperor Farrin of the New Pacific Order launched a PR offensive today with an aggressive OWF post accusing the Coalition of obstructing peace. Now as you know this wasn't the first time Farrin has been combative during ongoing negotiations:
 
 

The New Pacific Order values her allies. We entered this war in order to defend one such ally - the New Sith Order - from the aggression of the Polar Coalition, and our nations have fought admirably for that goal, receiving a total of 9.8 million NS in damage and dealing back 10.5m, constituting (with a large margin) both the highest damage received and highest damage dealt in this war. This is an achievement which would not have been possible without the help of all our allies, who have also shed a lot of their strength in the process of trying to counter the vast numerical superiority of our foes.

 
Interestingly enough, Farrin begins his address by saying his alliance values it's foederati allies. This seems to be an acknowledgement that NPO's obstructiveness continues to be very harmful to Pacifica's friends. Let me ask you something Mr. Emperor: If you entered the war to defend NSO's interests, why don't you cooperate and negotiate in full faith rather than extending the war. 
 
Of course, from here the address illuminates little in the way of Farrin's true intentions, and instead devolves into a sea of bloviating:
 

However, recent developments have made it clear that at least one of the goals of the Aggressor's coalition is not just the settlement of any grievances with the New Sith Order, but also the crippling of the New Pacific Order's post-war position as well. Throughout several weeks of negotiations, the aggressor coalition has consistently demanded terms that would see all our remaining top and mid-tier nations - 33 in total - be removed from all post-war economic activity via aid-restrictions for a period of over 4 months.
 
These are cash-laden and infra-heavy nations that are capable of aid-bombing our hard-hit lower tiers, and are thus crucial to our economic development. The economic suppression of 33 nations over 4 months would deny us the use of 2376 aid slots - equivalent to 14-21bn of cash aid (depending on the usage of FAC's). Considering that the average schedule in our world sees a war every 6-8 months, the denial of this amount of aid would severely compromise the Order's ability to meaningfully contribute in a future conflict by hitting hardest the nations that have fought a lot in this war (and will not be able to get aid to recover their infrastructure) as well as reducing tech-dealing levels across the alliance.

 
Now as you know Pacifica has not been reduced to the same extent NSO, NG, or TLR has. Two weeks ago we revealed that in an LNN exclusive:
 

NSO has suffered a 60% score reduction, 66% NS reduction, and average tech per member sits at 1500 tech
NG has suffered a 60% score reduction, 69% NS reduction, and average tech per member sits at 2500 tech*
TLR has suffered a 50% score reduction, 66% NS reduction, and average tech per member sits at 1866 tech
NPO has only suffered a 40% score reduction, 50% NS reduction, and average tech per member sits at 2100 tech
 
*NG began the war with a much higher ave NS and tech, and also lost 40 members such as Franz Ferdinand

 
Despite the facts revealing that NPO has not suffered comparable reduction, they continue to bring up irrelevant NS numbers despite the fact that much of the NS was generated via cheaply purchased <1000 infrastructure purchased for nuclear warfare. A more genuine measurement involves meaningful statistics that indicate combat effectiveness, but of course Pacifican spinsters won't use those.
 
The peace mode terms are fair and invite an alternative: NPO should commit their nations hiding in peace mode like their core allies have. But of course, the oppositions Grievance Industry are quick to label these terms "reparations:"
 

Your opinion matters more to you maybe. But lets keep on topic its punitive reparations. -- RedSandman of ODN

 
Of course this is just silly. Reparations involve wealth redistribution from the defeated to the victors. Of course these are just more talking points attempting to distract the folks from what is really going on. Farrin wasted a golden opportunity to make positive overtures to the coalition and embrace negotiations, and instead decided to utilize colorful propaganda to sway the opinion of the public. Indeed, his defiance has likely made his allies position worse:
 

We do not hold any grudge against our opponents for wanting to push hard terms on us.

 
Do you really expect people to believe this, Mr. Emperor, when the language of your announcement is so bombastic? I think it's reasonable to assume based upon this latest address that NPO wants a long war. Which is fine with the majority of the folks. Turning this war into a long term Stability Operation could be considered a good thing from some perspectives. But of course the PR hustlers will continue to paint the war as a "war of aggression."
 

We do realize that the New Pacific Order's continued fight against the aggressors that want to maim us also means that our allies continue to suffer damage at the hands of those same foes - allies which, for the most part, are able to exit this war without consequence. We have made it clear to all our allies that we consider all obligations and bonds of friendship between us to be satisfied with the current level of fighting and suffering they have gone through, and we will not force or ask them to continue fighting if they are able to get a way out. The New Pacific Order is fully prepared to fight for our post-war economic freedom alone, even if that will mean getting further dogpiled. To date, our allies have been horrified by the harshness of punishment that the aggressors seek to inflict on the Order, and have refused to leave - but we welcome them to seek a settlement at any time.

 
Talking Points agrees that Farrin should take a public stand on the issue, but the degree of vitriol used is counterproductive and makes the Emperor look like a curmudgeon. It is time for some straight talk, and I hope the Emperor is listening tonight because we need him to take leadership on this issue and begin negotiating in good faith, for peace. Stop pandering to the pundits and act in a responsible manner.
 
And that's tonight's Talking Points Memo.
 

[Rayvon]

Not surprising to see this kind of deep, thoughtful response from the guy with a Transformers Megan Fox avatar.

You're going down this road to gauge intelligence? .............

[SpacingOutMan]

A wise man once told me "Immoral Reps are Immortal". The point could not hold more true.

He then went on to rave about the unconquerable averageness of Korean women...

Something has to perpetuate the cycle of stupidity and fruitlessness.

[Branimir]

As poorly as it does on Valhalla. Making no nuke deals with your wartime opponents is a pretty !@#$%* thing to do to your coalition, regardless of the circumstances.

You didn't think that one through, did you. Thats the problem with knee jerk reactions. Give yourself some time before posting, it works better then.

[Krashnaia]

Go on, NPO. Continue letting your allies burn for the well-being of your tops tiers who remain safely in Peace Mode.

And, BTW, the concept of "Banking Nations" who must remain in PM during a war to give reconstruction aid post-war, has been outdated for a while ago. With the amount of warchest the high-tier nations have, any self-respecting high-tier naton can get involved, rebuild and give aid, all at the same time.

[Jesse End]

Not surprising to see this kind of deep, thoughtful response from the guy with a Transformers Megan Fox avatar.

That's a well thought out, eloquent, and relevant post you've got there.

What's wrong with Megan Fox?
 

Go on, NPO. Continue letting your allies burn for the well-being of your tops tiers who remain safely in Peace Mode.

And, BTW, the concept of "Banking Nations" who must remain in PM during a war to give reconstruction aid post-war, has been outdated for a while ago. With the amount of warchest the high-tier nations have, any self-respecting high-tier naton can get involved, rebuild and give aid, all at the same time.

If it's outdated and unnecessary, it shouldn't bother you that we continue to impede our economics by keeping them. Edited January 26, 2014 by Jesse End

[Rayvon]

Go on, NPO. Continue letting your allies burn for the well-being of your tops tiers who remain safely in Peace Mode.

And, BTW, the concept of "Banking Nations" who must remain in PM during a war to give reconstruction aid post-war, has been outdated for a while ago. With the amount of warchest the high-tier nations have, any self-respecting high-tier naton can get involved, rebuild and give aid, all at the same time.

Every single alliance must adhere to the exact same methods of growth and organization? There can be zero deviance from any alliance in their methods and activities?

Conform Pacifica. Be like everyone else.

[Joe Kremlin]

Why do bank nations need 10k+ tech?

[Geerland]

Wow, this thread has turned into a trainwreck.


As you have the upper hand in this war, your side has every right to try to impose whatever terms that you feel like on the NPO. However, we do have the right to refuse any such terms that are proposed, so long as we feel that we can carry on fighting.

Now, it would be disingenuous to then assume that we are forcing our allies to continue fighting for us. I believe it has been made clear to them that they are free to leave if they wish; there is no lack of will within Pacifica to continue the fight on our own.

Taking a slight detour into the proposed terms, I believe that they are so contentious because many people misunderstand Pacifica. Yes, we do use banks. Is it outdated? Maybe, maybe not. It is however, how that group of nations has decided to play. Over the years, banking nations within Pacifica have sent out billions in aid, asking for nothing in return. As a result, the institution of the Pacific Bank has become ingrained into the culture of the alliance. Given that this is now the second time that they have been targeted, and the state of the world, many members have had enough, and are willing to fight to the very end in the defence of Pacifica's culture. By targeting the banks, you are in effect trying to destroy a large chunk of the alliances culture, which is a far more emotive subject than that of the fate of 20 odd nations.

[Nikolay]

As poorly as it does on Valhalla. Making no nuke deals with your wartime opponents is a pretty !@#$%* thing to do to your coalition, regardless of the circumstances.

That would be a credible argument if Valhalla was at war with somebody else in our coalition, in which case, Pacifica would be guilty of saving their own pixels but making life more difficult for her allies and coalition mates. However, Valhalla declared war on NPO exclusively. By agreeing to turn the Valhalla front into a negligible one, NPO made a deal which allowed them to concentrate their attention on the primary fronts, where it could, for example, put more pressure on NpO or TOP, thus helping relieve pressure from allies and coalition mates like NSO. Or am I wrong here? 

[Franz Ferdinand]

Wow, this thread has turned into a trainwreck.


As you have the upper hand in this war, your side has every right to try to impose whatever terms that you feel like on the NPO. However, we do have the right to refuse any such terms that are proposed, so long as we feel that we can carry on fighting.

Now, it would be disingenuous to then assume that we are forcing our allies to continue fighting for us. I believe it has been made clear to them that they are free to leave if they wish; there is no lack of will within Pacifica to continue the fight on our own.

Taking a slight detour into the proposed terms, I believe that they are so contentious because many people misunderstand Pacifica. Yes, we do use banks. Is it outdated? Maybe, maybe not. It is however, how that group of nations has decided to play. Over the years, banking nations within Pacifica have sent out billions in aid, asking for nothing in return. As a result, the institution of the Pacific Bank has become ingrained into the culture of the alliance. Given that this is now the second time that they have been targeted, and the state of the world, many members have had enough, and are willing to fight to the very end in the defence of Pacifica's culture. By targeting the banks, you are in effect trying to destroy a large chunk of the alliances culture, which is a far more emotive subject than that of the fate of 20 odd nations.

Destroy the economic centre of an alliance, and peace will shortly follow. At least, that's what I would assume. Sometimes, it is a good idea to move on from the past and embrace the future.

[iamthey]

Good stance Farrin.  We would never let you take those terms anyway.  Those are insane, unprecedented, and extremely punitive terms and equivalent to extremely ridiculous reparations.  No one should accept them.  Not even my worse enemy would see terms like that from me.  [OOC]And they should be against the ToS, making someone basically quit the game for nearly half a year[/OOC].

 

To add to it, these are basically terms you given an opponent that you know they'll have trouble keeping, so this is just designed to give NpO/TOP another CB on NPO.  Telling 33 nations to stay in peace mode for 4+ months and keeping them disciplined to not accidentally go to war mode or leave due to boredom.  It's disgusting.  And sad they were even offered.  And do we really need more incentive to push nations from our world?  These terms do just that.

 

Clearly you have either been misled, or you now feign ignorance- the coalition dropped the PM term after the first Pacifican counter offer. In its place we accepted Farrin's proposal of aid restrictions (on those nations who have not fought), we exempted their senators as they requested, we then considerably cut the multiplier on the duration of the war from 2 to 1.5 to 1.3. Farrin countered this with .5 - and then proceeded to rage quit over a .8 difference (which remained negotiable). Negotiations at this point are a technical discussion over what the multiplier should be, no one is forcing anything onerous on NPO, certainly nothing NPO hasn't itself proposed.

 

If farrin wants to make a public appeal to the twenty !@#$ posters of the OWF then by all means he's free to do that- all the same we'll be waiting when he wants to talk to us again. The only group extending the war at this point is NPO.  

Edited January 26, 2014 by iamthey