A Message from the Emperor of the New Pacific Order

[Branimir]

Pacifica planned a war of aggression vs Polaris as a pre-empt, that got nixed when TOP-Polaris signed.

Not even Polar made that claim.

[OsRavan]

If you bother doing the math, the damage done to pacifica is quite small compared to forcing them out of peace mode.

 

I am not in the loop of anything these days and I have no idea why my government wants it but, for me, letting go people who just sit in peace mode throughout the war is just stupid and the CN recognition that escaping into peace mode is an effective way to dodge a war with no material consequence. That makes a whole lot less sense than terms.

 

Time to grow up and stop crying. These are not the times of noCB war, no one is putting in cripling terms. The only limitation alliances have these days are their competence and their activity.

 

 

Only thats not what its about for your side Letum.  If it was why arent you angry at the nations on your side who have been on pm the whole war?  Why arent you making this a blanket demand of every alliance (hell even every alliance on just our side) and not just NPO?  Because thats a cover story and the lack of truth.

 

There was a time when ODN felt the way you are describing with MCXA.  You know what we did with MCXA? We offered them a 1on1 equal nations equal NS duel.  Why? Because for us it really was a pm thing nothing else.   If your alliances issue was really about hiding in pm (its clearly not) they wouldn't be pursuing the course they are.  Why?  Because what you are demanding doesnt match up with what you are saying.

 

I might be somewhat more sympathetic, if NPO wasn't part of a planning process for a said 'war of aggression' since at least last May.  NPO may be entering in to defend its allies, sure, but it did so because it was outmaneuvered when the roll Polar bandwagon didn't quite pan out.

 

I won't argue the terms (not part of negotiations, sorry), but to put Pacifica as being just a good ally in the wrong place at the wrong time is disengenous at best.

 

 

I wish to confirm that was in fact the case, Non Grata, the New Pacific Order and the New Sith Order were preparing a coalition to counter the New Polar Order. I expect that the whole Bear Force One kind of took some of the wind out of the sails among other things.

 

You can 'confirm' all you want.  Do you have some evidence?  It wasnt in the CB of this war.  The leader of New Polar Order is on record saying there is no evidence that NPO was plotting anything.  The alliances you DO accuse of plotting say theyve never seen NPO plotting anything.  And frankly, considering ive personally seen NPO repeatedly say they didnt want to start a war with polar dating back to the equilibrium war.... and theyve shown no actions that they wanted that.... and I see no reason why you are in a position to know differently.....

 

considering all that i'm curious what on earth you are jabbering about.

 

provide some evidence or shut up.

[Crownguard]

They weren't there planning themselves being rolled, now were they?  I said since back in May...since Polaris-TOP signed in August, that would make it somewhat different circumstances.  Back then the fear was in letting NG or (funny how it works out) TOP get to pick up the pieces of whoever was left fighting Polaris.

[The Zigur]

Not even Polar made that claim.

 

I think it is fair to state that NpO did not have that information at the beginning of the war as INT was not formally in the coalition before the war (to my best memory).

[iamthey]

Lol wrong.

Also, there's no way this war could have been over by Christmas, because for all of December, when we were continually approaching your coalition to attempt to negotiate, your coalition kept telling us that you could not come to an agreement on what you wanted to offer us.

In other words, there weren't any terms for us to accept even if we'd have been willing to accept them.

If NPO had approached the war as its peers did, it would have received the same treatment as the others- we have been ready to peace them out since mid december. You didn't and so there was disagreement on how to handle you. That you have terms has nothing to do with who you are, only how you have fought the war.

[Franz Ferdinand]

You can 'confirm' all you want.  Do you have some evidence?  It wasnt in the CB of this war.  The leader of New Polar Order is on record saying there is no evidence that NPO was plotting anything.  The alliances you DO accuse of plotting say theyve never seen NPO plotting anything.  And frankly, considering ive personally seen NPO repeatedly say they didnt want to start a war with polar dating back to the equilibrium war.... and theyve shown no actions that they wanted that.... and I see no reason why you are in a position to know differently.....

 

considering all that i'm curious what on earth you are jabbering about.

 

provide some evidence or shut up.

I'd be happy to, unfortunately I am not able to access my IRC folder which contained the logs right now. Not an excuse, but just a fact.

[The Zigur]

This thread has turned into a Pacifican PR nightmare.

[OsRavan]

polar has information now? by all means share it.  Otherwise stop bsing around when we all know in fact the exact opposite of your claim is true.

[Krzyzewskiville]

This thread has turned into a Pacifican PR nightmare.

Just because you keep saying it and thinking it, well, that won't make it come true. Edited January 26, 2014 by Krzyzewskiville

[Mogar]

Regardless of my personal feelings on this subject, Kudos for bringing the conversation to public discussion, the world would be a better place with less back channels conversation and more public debates.

[RedSandman]

 

This thread has turned into a Pacifican PR nightmare.

 

I doubt that very much.

[MitchellBade]

Jeez, with all the butthurt, you'd think we were pushing for disbandment or some shit.  Get the hell over yourselves Pacifica.

[Steve Buscemi]

I'd be happy to, unfortunately I am not able to access my IRC folder which contained the logs right now. Not an excuse, but just a fact.

Franz, you don't have any evidence of a current NG triumvirate plotting to roll NpO.  It doesn't exist and you weren't privy to that kind of high-level information - one way or another - anyway.  So you saying you know anything about that doesn't prove (or disprove).....anything.  You don't even have access to our highest levels where we would even talk about such things.  You were a ex-Minister from a long time ago, not even in foreign affairs.  Leave it be man as I don't want to keep having to straighten out your lies.

 

The facts are that we actually told NpO very clearly in their forums, that we, the current tri, weren't planning any aggressive war on NpO.  I wouldn't have done that if we were planning on attacking them, it would've been a complete waste of time.  It's not my style nor the other current NG triumvirs or Titos (RIP).  That's part of the reason the war took so long to take off, as NpO was hoping we'd make a move, when clearly we had moved on.

[MitchellBade]

The facts are that we actually told NpO very clearly in their forums, that we, the current tri, weren't planning any aggressive war on NpO.  I wouldn't have done that if we were planning on attacking them, it would've been a complete waste of time.

 

You're quite the brilliant strategist, aren't ya?

[Franz Ferdinand]

Franz, you don't have any evidence of a current NG triumvirate plotting to roll NpO.  It doesn't exist and you weren't privy to that kind of high-level information - one way or another - anyway.  So you saying you know anything about that doesn't prove (or disprove).....anything.  You don't even have access to our highest levels where we would even talk about such things.  You were a ex-Minister from a long time ago, not even in foreign affairs.  Leave it be man as I don't want to keep having to straighten out your lies.

 

The facts are that we actually told NpO very clearly in their forums, that we, the current tri, weren't planning any aggressive war on NpO.  I wouldn't have done that if we were planning on attacking them, it would've been a complete waste of time.  It's not my style nor the other current NG triumvirs or Titos (RIP).  That's part of the reason the war took so long to take off, as NpO was hoping we'd make a move, when clearly we had moved on.

Steve, I did not implicate any current Non Grata Triumvirate in this current affair at all. The Triumvirate at the time of the plotting was Caustic, Tito and Dane0, not the current selection. There was definitely plans to build a coalition against Polaris as they were perceived to be the big target to hit. Unfortunately, events unfolded in a way which meant that it wasn't possible to follow through with the plan. I was not spreading any lies at all, you merely perceived it as such.

[Finch]

Good choice OP, continue to fight, at the current rate your side will hit closer to 0s across the board long before the Polar Coaliton will. Also please feel free to pretend I speak for NpO here when I obviously don't as you can tell by my activity if you check my last log in date on the NpO forums. I'm just happy to stay inactive and watch you guys who tried to take us out burn even longer.

[Neo Uruk]

NG/NSO planned the war. NPO didn't want to kick off a war with Polar, but would support its allies. Is it so hard to grasp? At least, that's how I understood what I was told re: the situation

Also, can we shut the fuck up about "you can let your allies burn for you if you really want to!"

[nooob]

Tywinn is no schattenman, that's for sure.

[Unknown Smurf]

 

 

Only thats not what its about for your side Letum.  If it was why arent you angry at the nations on your side who have been on pm the whole war?  Why arent you making this a blanket demand of every alliance (hell even every alliance on just our side) and not just NPO?  Because thats a cover story and the lack of truth.

 

There was a time when ODN felt the way you are describing with MCXA.  You know what we did with MCXA? We offered them a 1on1 equal nations equal NS duel.  Why? Because for us it really was a pm thing nothing else.   If your alliances issue was really about hiding in pm (its clearly not) they wouldn't be pursuing the course they are.  Why?  Because what you are demanding doesnt match up with what you are saying.

 

 

 

 

You can 'confirm' all you want.  Do you have some evidence?  It wasnt in the CB of this war.  The leader of New Polar Order is on record saying there is no evidence that NPO was plotting anything.  The alliances you DO accuse of plotting say theyve never seen NPO plotting anything.  And frankly, considering ive personally seen NPO repeatedly say they didnt want to start a war with polar dating back to the equilibrium war.... and theyve shown no actions that they wanted that.... and I see no reason why you are in a position to know differently.....

 

considering all that i'm curious what on earth you are jabbering about.

 

provide some evidence or shut up.

 

I do believe Franz strengthens your case and you are making yourself look like the fool you are by refuting him. Maybe you should take a second to read what he said: The people who were pressing for the attack left N G/SO/PO a while before the attack on N G/SO/PO by Polardox&co. happened. Therefore the attack was, exactly as you said before, not against those who conspired against NpO as they claimed but as an attack on NPOsphere to diminish their power.. i.e. an aggressive war. 

[Hob Dobson]

The point isn't in the recovery of those 33 nations, but all the small sub 10k nations that they could be aiding post-war. 14-21bn goes a long way in the lower tier.

 

Having a sub-10k NS nation myself, I do have a fairly good idea of how far the money goes at first and how rapidly the rebuilding costs go up the further that rebuilding has to go.

 

If you're concentrating on the nations that started from the sub-10k NS range at outset, you're looking at the tier of nations least likely to have a FAC, cutting your maximum aid output up to 33% from the start.  They're more efficiently aided by low- and mid-tier nations that also do not have a FAC. 

 

If you're looking at nations now in the sub-10k NS range, there's a higher probability of those nations having a FAC and a commensurate need to rebuy much more infrastructure than accounted for by the "small nations are cheap to rebuild" axiom.  Some may well see the sort of delay in full rebuilding I've suggested. Even those that don't would likely be much happier NOT to be competing for tech sellers against the alliance's top tier, at least at start.

 

Nonetheless, I remain of the opinion that if NPO is sufficiently organized, the terms are not as crippling as many see them, perhaps not worth the effort to obtain. However, if that is not the case, then avoiding the terms will not help NPO so much as hoped or feared, and again perhaps not worth the effort to obtain. Or I could be completely wrong in my assessment. In any case, we'll all likely know more in six months or so, no?

[Unknown Smurf]

Franz, you don't have any evidence of a current NG triumvirate plotting to roll NpO.  It doesn't exist and you weren't privy to that kind of high-level information - one way or another - anyway.  So you saying you know anything about that doesn't prove (or disprove).....anything.  You don't even have access to our highest levels where we would even talk about such things.  You were a ex-Minister from a long time ago, not even in foreign affairs.  Leave it be man as I don't want to keep having to straighten out your lies.

 

The facts are that we actually told NpO very clearly in their forums, that we, the current tri, weren't planning any aggressive war on NpO.  I wouldn't have done that if we were planning on attacking them, it would've been a complete waste of time.  It's not my style nor the other current NG triumvirs or Titos (RIP).  That's part of the reason the war took so long to take off, as NpO was hoping we'd make a move, when clearly we had moved on.

 

He has the same logs everyone has of NSO/Stewie trying to get people to roll polar. As he said those that are in those logs (for the most part) already suicided against Polar in the form of BF1. 

[Dexomega]

Franz, you don't have any evidence of a current NG triumvirate plotting to roll NpO.  It doesn't exist and you weren't privy to that kind of high-level information - one way or another - anyway.  So you saying you know anything about that doesn't prove (or disprove).....anything.  You don't even have access to our highest levels where we would even talk about such things.  You were a ex-Minister from a long time ago, not even in foreign affairs.  Leave it be man as I don't want to keep having to straighten out your lies.

 

The facts are that we actually told NpO very clearly in their forums, that we, the current tri, weren't planning any aggressive war on NpO.  I wouldn't have done that if we were planning on attacking them, it would've been a complete waste of time.  It's not my style nor the other current NG triumvirs or Titos (RIP).  That's part of the reason the war took so long to take off, as NpO was hoping we'd make a move, when clearly we had moved on.

 

Not having evidence didn't stop this (old thread).

 

I'm just saying. *walks out*

[Goldie]

In 2011, Polar agreed to terms that prohibited any aid sent or received for a month. Their 350ish nations missed roughly 15 slots each for that 30 day period, which assuming each slot went used for sending/receiving cash, like Farrin's claims here, it prevented $8 billion in aid from being sent/received. No one made claims that they'd be that crippling, because they weren't. Polar bounced back fine, so will NPO. You can keep throwing around hyperbole about how crippling these are, but they're pretty mild when you sit back and stop complaining for a minute and consider them.

[KahlanRahl]

We do not hold any grudge against our opponents for wanting to push hard terms on us. 

 

Oh no, not at all, I'm sure.  :rolleyes:

 

Such a long post for what amounts to "We're going to whine and bitch and moan and kick until we get what we want and not a penny less!"

Edited January 27, 2014 by KahlanRahl

[WhitEarendur]

In 2011, Polar agreed to terms that prohibited any aid sent or received for a month. Their 350ish nations missed roughly 15 slots each for that 30 day period, which assuming each slot went used for sending/receiving cash, like Farrin's claims here, it prevented $8 billion in aid from being sent/received. No one made claims that they'd be that crippling, because they weren't. Polar bounced back fine, so will NPO. You can keep throwing around hyperbole about how crippling these are, but they're pretty mild when you sit back and stop complaining for a minute and consider them.

 I must agree with Goldie here. Polar's last two losses resulted in terms of 125k tech reps and a total aid ban (albeit for only 1 month). So Steve Buscemi's outrage over the "insane, unprecedented, and extremely punitive terms" is quite silly. 

Edited January 27, 2014 by WhitEarendur