This Week in GATO

[Enamel32]

What are you even talking about.
 

Don't worry about it. I don't expect you to understand. I have a feeling VE will understand in due time.

[Dre4mwe4ver]

You notice you're the only GATO gov shooting his mouth off in here?  Because there's no defense for your "performance" or your failures.

While framed in a manner to address the entirety of our alliance and the rest of the world, the fact remains that this is, indeed, a rather Magic-centric OP. I understand the need to cast light in an angle that favors the particular fable you promote. I even understand the refusal by some here to subscribe to reality for the purpose of propaganda and its furtherance. I also understand honest misunderstanding, but in the end, whether one chooses to seek and acknowledge the truth, or rather to hastily and willfully act on irrationality is a representation of that person alone, and not particularly of my personal concern. Those who have sought truth have received it. So, judging from what you seem to hold with such unwavering conviction, it seems you may have to ask yourself at least one question: "Why haven't I?" because the answer, this time, is unfortunately not "I have."

In short, there's "no defense," as you say, because if you should care to open your eyes, you may recognize that there is no need for defense against nothing.

Be it ignorance, dismissal, or a healthy combination of both, you'll have to forgive me if I'm not awfully interested in a personal gripe that seems to have festered rather terribly.

Though, should it please you, may I refer to this:

Also I was the only gov addressed in the op and the only one responsible for how our military fought the war. My fellow gov know they don't need to defend me. Especially, since your whole case falls apart as soon as one goes and looks at our nation page and sees you are full of shit.

[asawyer]

So what? Every single alliance gets guys like him. Hell, you have a former R&R member in your ranks who was kicked out for surrendering in a war.

 

Okay I'll bite, who is this referring to?  One of the important lessons VE has learned over the years is that going all out during a war forces these types to shape up or ship out (to France).  It's unfortunate alliances on both sides of this war will never have they joy of seeing this principle applied as they cull the wheat from the shaft.

[Sardonic]

Guys, at the risk of overstepping my authority, I'd like to urge my fellow coalition mates to stop arguing in public and giving our coalition foes what they want.

[Ardus]

Don't worry about it. I don't expect you to understand. I have a feeling VE will understand in due time.

I am sure Viridia appreciates your totally genuine concern, Spartan.

[Rhizoctonia]

way we did it was the absolute most efficient way to fight this war. Something obviously lost on VE. 

 

 

Ahh yes..the most efficient way to fight in order to prevent any damage is to have as many as possible not fighting.  You're 100% correct. 

 

Calling Out VE is quite sad.  Though I think VE has made poor decisions in terms of allies, they at least fight it out when entering a war.  The two times I've faced them, they have always given me enjoyable wars....which I cannot say the same for others who either don't fight or turtle the whole time.

[Enamel32]

I am sure Viridia appreciates your totally genuine concern, Spartan.

I'd hope so, we got fucked in the ass!

[Austrailia]

Guys, at the risk of overstepping my authority, I'd like to urge my fellow coalition mates to stop arguing in public and giving our coalition foes what they want.

 

Sard, I appreciate the sentiment. But when a certain alliance tries to pretend that two months wasn't long enough for them to release their tiers and enter this war, when they claim that we were the ones not following coalition policy, when they dismiss all the damage we've done in support of their coalition no less as simply a stupid suicide rush...well, you see why some of us are justifiably upset.

[smurthwaite]

I can't fault Magicninja for what happened.  When you send out orders as an MoD, you expect them to be followed.  It helps when you're respected by the body politick, but even in a democracy such as GATO this sort of complete disregard to the welfare of your members overall is disgusting when it comes to their upper-tier.

 

That being said, the character assassination on the part of Schatt is reprehensible.  It should not be condoned, it should not be considered funny.  These sorts of disputes and grudge matches were traditionally handled in private, face-to-face conversations, and I'm not sure what happened to make this acceptable.  It's disappointing - I expected more from CoJ.

 

I mostly agree here.  I think GATO has some internal work to do, but who doesn't.  The character assignation is pretty ridiculous.  That said, it isn't anything new, and at least it is not OCC attacks.  Also, had it been somebody who was less abrupt in his interactions with the world, I would have more pity.  As it is, I'll agree it isn't ok, but have a hard time thinking of Magicninja as a victim.

[D34th]

Guys, at the risk of overstepping my authority, I'd like to urge my fellow coalition mates to stop arguing in public and giving our coalition foes what they want.

 

That's what happens when not all your coalition mates share the same level of commitment. Look to the bright side though, the amount of arguing would be much worse and would had started much sooner if I was in an alliance in your side. 

Edited March 25, 2013 by D34th

[the rebel]

Nobody "didn't want to fight". So you can forget about that being a "fact". Inactivity is what it is, we love our members, even if they're very busy with non-CN things.

 

I think the contention is that as the OP shows everybody above 40k+ was to be ordered out of peacemode on the 15th March and 36 still remain in peacemode, then by the 17th March everybody was to leave to which 102 are still in peacemode.

 

But when magicninja kindly came into this topic and stated along the lines of him later "changing the orders from mandatory to voluntary", which sounds worse to back down on a order and would bring up questions as to why? Was it to save face? Was it because people refused? Was it because there suddenly became 102 inactives when asked to leave dove?

[Tick1]

That's what happens when not all your coalition mates share the same level of commitment. Look to the bright side though, the amount of arguing would be much worse and would had started much sooner if I was in an alliance in your side. 

 

That's just quite rich, quite rich indeed dark chocolate rich

[Rhizoctonia]

I think the contention is that as the OP shows everybody above 40k+ was to be ordered out of peacemode on the 15th March and 36 still remain in peacemode, then by the 17th March everybody was to leave to which 102 are still in peacemode.

 

But when magicninja kindly came into this topic and stated along the lines of him later "changing the orders from mandatory to voluntary", which sounds worse to back down on a order and would bring up questions as to why? Was it to save face? Was it because people refused? Was it because there suddenly became 102 inactives when asked to leave dove?

 

 

Maybe his members stopped listening to him like the rest of OWF has

[Arciel]

So many people grasping at straws. Amusing.

[ChairmanHal]

What do all of you not get about 5 people....a whole 5 out of all of GATO did not follow orders? Are you really being that stupid? Not paying attention? What is it Hal?

 

Dude with respect, if you can't convince 5 people to go where the sword is pointed and there was nothing illegitimate about your order, that makes it kinda worse, not better.

[RevolutionaryRebel]

It is a sad day when a neutral party such as myself does a better job of responding to a ridiculous and flawed attempt to ignite tensions than the parties being undermined. It's a little late to hold face now, Sardonic; but at least you can ensure that this thread becomes what it should have been the whole time; one faction gloating amongst themselves over the self-censored proceeds of theft - ignored by everybody else.

Edited March 25, 2013 by revolutionary rebel

[Garion]

Okay I'll bite, who is this referring to?  One of the important lessons VE has learned over the years is that going all out during a war forces these types to shape up or ship out (to France).  It's unfortunate alliances on both sides of this war will never have they joy of seeing this principle applied as they cull the wheat from the shaft.

 

You have a PM.

 

To his credit, he has learned that lesson: he fought during this war without surrendering.
 

[Arciel]

Dude with respect, if you can't convince 5 people to go where the sword is pointed and there was nothing illegitimate about your order, that makes it kinda worse, not better.

 

5 out of 180+? We're not an exclusive alliance. We're bound to get inactives. Those at the upper tier do tend to have older nations, hence, older players, hence, more responsibilities in this RL thing, hence, lesser time to spend in this realm. Or maybe they just don't really want to fight and conserve their pixels? Who knows?

[PhilipBegger]

5 out of 180+? We're not an exclusive alliance. We're bound to get inactives. Those at the upper tier do tend to have older nations, hence, older players, hence, more responsibilities in this RL thing, hence, lesser time to spend in this realm. Or maybe they just don't really want to fight and conserve their pixels? Who knows?

Hence.

[ChairmanHal]

Ahh yes..the most efficient way to fight in order to prevent any damage is to have as many as possible not fighting.  You're 100% correct. 

 

Calling Out VE is quite sad.  Though I think VE has made poor decisions in terms of allies, they at least fight it out when entering a war.  The two times I've faced them, they have always given me enjoyable wars....which I cannot say the same for others who either don't fight or turtle the whole time.

 

I think perhaps VE has stayed out in the field too long this war, but there is no doubting that they have fight in them, loyalty to their friends, and have been generally a enjoyable opponent.  I'm also certain that if goldielax wanted 5 of his people to attack AI at this late stage, and they had the ability to do so, it would happen, regardless of whatever misgivings they might have concerning the war.

 

Safe to say that we would gladly fight along side VE in the future.  GATO...hmm.  Not my first choice.

[Rhizoctonia]

5 out of 180+? We're not an exclusive alliance. We're bound to get inactives. Those at the upper tier do tend to have older nations, hence, older players, hence, more responsibilities in this RL thing, hence, lesser time to spend in this realm. Or maybe they just don't really want to fight and conserve their pixels? Who knows?

 

How does age of a nation have any correlation to real life responsibility?  Someone who has an old nation could of started when they were quite young, and still have similar real life commitments as when they started....or someone older could have just started and have more commitments.

 

I think perhaps VE has stayed out in the field too long this war, but there is no doubting that they have fight in them, loyalty to their friends, and have been generally a enjoyable opponent. I'm also certain that if goldielax wanted 5 of his people to attack AI at this late stage, and they had the ability to do so, it would happen, regardless of whatever misgivings they might have concerning the war.

 

Safe to say that we would gladly fight along side VE in the future. GATO...hmm. Not my first choice.

 

 

100% agree

Edited March 25, 2013 by Rhizoctonia

[Gravitas]

Consider this a verbal warning to the thread to stop using terms like "real life," "players," or any other OOC description of nation rulers. Future violations will result in full warning level increases. There are plenty of IC ways of getting most of this across.

[ChairmanHal]

5 out of 180+? We're not an exclusive alliance. We're bound to get inactives. Those at the upper tier do tend to have older nations, hence, older players, hence, more responsibilities in this RL thing, hence, lesser time to spend in this realm. Or maybe they just don't really want to fight and conserve their pixels? Who knows?

 

Based on what I've heard, they did not have confidence in the ability of their commander and they all stayed in the barracks.  Even if someone was having external issues come up, where was the communication?  The people we have in PM at AI are there for a reason and command knows that reason.  From the screenshots its clear MN felt he was simply being ignored.

Edited March 25, 2013 by ChairmanHal

[Omniscient1]

Please point out where anyone is CnG has ever done this?  I'll wait.  CnG does not, and has never, condoned spying especially of this sort that serve no tactical or political purpose other than rubbing your opponents nose in the dirt.  I like the argument though, that because somebody, somewhere made fun of a losing alliance that justifies it in all cases.  Nice logic and nice world you guys are building here.  
 

Your acquiescence throughout the entire post-Karma era is a testament in itself to your thoughts on spying and kicking alliances while they're down. I could gather a large wealth of examples in which CnG actively participated in protecting spies (such as Dave war), provided passive and moral support for those actions (as with bros or with NSO-Legion incident. The time Zoom spied followed by several CnG members running to the thread to laugh at CSN's info. The time you and your lot made Vlad a folk hero for handing out GOD's war chests), or kicked alliances around while they were down (most notably Polar, although one could include several SF alliances. A very concrete example would be the MEAT incident. This is ignoring completely RoK's situation.). Your governmental figures, most notably Rushsykes and Magicninja have said publically they didn't give one fuck about the moral issues. They only wanted to beat up on SF. So again, please read up on recent history before making claims of how you've "never done something". It's really cute to see you guys become moralist as soon as you lose a little infra. If this is what the "new hegemony" is about, I'm going to be laughing a whole hell of a lot.

Also to clear up confusion, my point is CnG/DH decrying spying and "rubbing a defeated opponents nose in the dirt" is hypocrisy at its finest. There is no "argument" it is a simple statement of fact. Edited March 25, 2013 by Omniscient1

[Pingu]

Any time you have to identify something as "a simple statement of fact" it almost certainly isn't.