Dcrews Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 If I were you, I would much rather keep silent than come out in the open and let everyone know how little MK cares for the alliances in iC coalition. If everyone doesn't know by now there is little chance that they will come to a sudden enlightenment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 How honourable of you. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 VE has eschewed peace mode since the beginning. It'd choose disbandment over peace mode and has made such clear enough in the past. I'm not sure why anybody is surprised by their choice of battle strategy.That said, all glory to peace mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingu Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 My noble objective in OWF is make cyberverse a better place. If only you could convince Schatt to pursue the same objective... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 I think the contention is that as the OP shows everybody above 40k+ was to be ordered out of peacemode on the 15th March and 36 still remain in peacemode, then by the 17th March everybody was to leave to which 102 are still in peacemode. But when magicninja kindly came into this topic and stated along the lines of him later "changing the orders from mandatory to voluntary", which sounds worse to back down on a order and would bring up questions as to why? Was it to save face? Was it because people refused? Was it because there suddenly became 102 inactives when asked to leave dove? Because the war was for all intents and purposes...over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austrailia Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 I question both. There's absolutely nothing honorable about making a terrible strategic decision and throwing your nations into the meat-grinder needlessly. What you see as a valiant fighting effort is little more than poor leadership. Failing to use peacemode as an effective tactic to limit damage and pick your battles is just as worthy of ridicule as the overuse of peacemode. I mean, what were they hoping to achieve? Because what they got is smashed down to 1.5m NS and an ANS of under 12k. I don't blame Kowalski and others in VE for being pissed that other alliances in the coalition haven't taken nearly as much damage, but I think they're taking their anger out on the wrong target. Not that I don't think GATO has made a quite liberal use of peace mode (from an objective standpoint here), but VE's war tacticians must be complete morons. This is the second war in a row that VE have just given up on trying to think and bum rushed in to get annihilated; except this time I doubt they're going to get out early for being ~honorable~. You're assuming that the original strategy of our coalition was to hide in peace mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3mon Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 If everyone doesn't know by now there is little chance that they will come to a sudden enlightenment. One can hope that the so-called "competent" alliances are intelligent enough to eventually figure it out. Then again, I am an eternal optimist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Based on what I've heard, they did not have confidence in the ability of their commander and they all stayed in the barracks. Even if someone was having external issues come up, where was the communication? The people we have in PM at AI are there for a reason and command knows that reason. From the screenshots its clear MN felt he was simply being ignored. So you've talked to all those 5 guys and asked them why they stayed in? Because, damn what you heard, those would be the only answers that mattered. Not even mine would count for shit. I'm just giving numbers. 5 out of over 180 people never followed the orders. Is that really that bad? If it is who does better than that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroofTime55 Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Okay, I change my mind, the best part of this thread is the part where people claim that VE gave it their all "just so they could get out early" like the "cowards" they are. I mean, are you kidding me? It's one thing to hide in hippie, but then to criticize the most active fighters in your own coalition for... fighting? Give me a break. VE gave a stellar performance this war and they are a shining example of what you're supposed to do. Unlike many of you, they will leave this war with nothing but the utmost respect of their opponents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Excellent read as always, nice to see the series continued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 SO what we learned: GATO couldn't get 5 out of 180+ nations to follow orders. Magicninja got mad. Stupid perfectionist. GATO followed coalition strategy. Only successful because the other side let us be. I'll take it. VE should be commended for going into the teeth of the battle. Sure, I agree. Schatt has an unhealthy obsession with either myself or GATO. Got people to buy into the fact that 5 people not following orders is somehow a massive failure that should be mocked. What else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Schatt unloads on whomever happens to be immediately opposite of him at any given time. You're not really special in that regard, magicninja. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Schatt unloads on whomever happens to be immediately opposite of him at any given time. You're not really special in that regard, magicninja. Awwwwww. I thought it would last forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Okay, I change my mind, the best part of this thread is the part where people claim that VE gave it their all "just so they could get out early" like the "cowards" they are. I mean, are you kidding me? It's one thing to hide in hippie, but then to criticize the most active fighters in your own coalition for... fighting? Give me a break. VE gave a stellar performance this war and they are a shining example of what you're supposed to do. Unlike many of you, they will leave this war with nothing but the utmost respect of their opponents. I take it all back, we must be doing something wrong, if HoT and Sparta are currently saying nice things about us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 I take it all back, we must be doing something wrong, if HoT and Sparta are currently saying nice things about us.think on your sins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 think on your sinsYou too, friend. You too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Okay, I change my mind, the best part of this thread is the part where people claim that VE gave it their all "just so they could get out early" like the "cowards" they are. I mean, are you kidding me? It's one thing to hide in hippie, but then to criticize the most active fighters in your own coalition for... fighting? Give me a break. VE gave a stellar performance this war and they are a shining example of what you're supposed to do. Unlike many of you, they will leave this war with nothing but the utmost respect of their opponents. I hate to agree with HoT and I hate even more when I'm agreeing about someone saying something positive about VE, so it hurt me a lot say that, but I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Glaucon Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 If only you could convince Schatt to pursue the same objective... High-concept irony? Please describe to us, yet again, how this topic is a waste of time and not worth commenting on. I don't think the last 5 comments were specific enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 He's right, for what it's worth. You can attempt to play off your "strategy" as honorable all you'd like, but in truth, there are only two scenarios in which VE's wartime behavior makes sense. In the first scenario, your alliance was unaware that this was intended to be a war of attrition, and decided against using peace mode out of ignorance. In the second, your alliance was attempting to duck out of the war at the earliest available opportunity, and taking a ton of damage by virtue of not using peace mode provided a convenient excuse to do so, as it did when you so valiantly rose to the defense of GOD for two weeks. Your strategy was neither brave nor honorable -- it was stupid, and intentionally so. Actually, neither of those are true. The original strategy was to force a ton of hurt from the DH front on AI that it would force a peace for the overall coalition the quickest since we were all hugely outnumbered to begin with. IRON and NPO however did and continue to do a great job of staggering us while several alliances adopted a peace tier strategy/focused on other fronts leaving us locked in for the whole war. To be honest, I'm not really complaining. I've always been a proponent of an all out war between opposing sides for a month or 2 before being able to shake hands and do it again a few months later. That's when this game was at its peak and most fun, when we had constant wars. However, the constant use of peace tactics delay war closures for months (effectively making the game unplayable for their peace mode nations) and proceed to make the next "peace" period last longer, possibly making a wait for another war be another year. Just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taget Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 To my friends in GATO and VE. And those who genuinely support them. Stop. You are just being manipulated. And not by some masterful machiavelli. But by dolts. And if you fall for it you're a bigger bunch of dolts than them. Those on the other side are pushing your buttons and their praise and condemnation is based purely on what is in their own interests, not yours. You can debate what are better tactics. But the reality is this. When the numbers are not on your side everything needs to be executed perfectly for you to have a chance. And war is an imperfect art. Whereas when you have the numbers you have the lattitude for all types of screw ups. Fighting quality versus quantity is a hard path. And you just make that path harder when you allow the enemy to create discord in what is still an on-going war. GATO came in for CnG and three of it's treatied allies came in on it's behalf. CnG and all our members are not shy about living up to their name and listing every complaint and grievance we have with every other member. That is all GATO needs to stand in account for. Likewise the Viridian Entente entered honorably in behalf of their treatied partners. And the opinions of the peanut gallery on the validity and invalidity oif their strategy is of minimal consequence. I can only thank them for fighting with us. And perhaps privately and cordially if we find ourselves on the same side we can exchange ideas on better and more successful strategems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diogenes Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Give me a break. VE gave a stellar performance this war and they are a shining example of what you're supposed to do. Unlike many of you, they will leave this war with nothing but the utmost respect of their opponents. A shining example of what you're supposed to do in bizarro world, maybe. I'm privy to information that I could use to categorically disprove every statement you've just made, but I'll refrain from airing dirty laundry in public. As for your respect, keep it. We're not interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 (edited) If more alliances fought with the dignity and class of Viridia, digiterra would be a much more enjoyable place. Sadly honour is deemed unnoteworthy in some cliques. I question both. There's absolutely nothing honorable about making a terrible strategic decision and throwing your nations into the meat-grinder needlessly. What you see as a valiant fighting effort is little more than poor leadership. Failing to use peacemode as an effective tactic to limit damage and pick your battles is just as worthy of ridicule as the overuse of peacemode. I mean, what were they hoping to achieve? Because what they got is smashed down to 1.5m NS and an ANS of under 12k. I don't blame Kowalski and others in VE for being pissed that other alliances in the coalition haven't taken nearly as much damage, but I think they're taking their anger out on the wrong target. Not that I don't think GATO has made a quite liberal use of peace mode (from an objective standpoint here), but VE's war tacticians must be complete morons. This is the second war in a row that VE have just given up on trying to think and bum rushed in to get annihilated; except this time I doubt they're going to get out early for being ~honorable~. There is a way to use peacemode effectively. This isn't rocket science. I joined NATO less than a week ago, and before that I was in an alliance completely neutral in this conflict due to conflicting treaty ties. I am hardly an EQ fanboy, which you could easily see if you've ever read any of my other posts this war. Hint: I defended GATO in some of their other threads, back when we were allied. Both GATO and VE are fighting honorably, and with good intent. They just have widely different, and incompatible, views of what the best strategy is and was. To my friends in GATO and VE. And those who genuinely support them. Stop. You are just being manipulated. And not by some masterful machiavelli. But by dolts. And if you fall for it you're a bigger bunch of dolts than them. Those on the other side are pushing your buttons and their praise and condemnation is based purely on what is in their own interests, not yours. You can debate what are better tactics. But the reality is this. When the numbers are not on your side everything needs to be executed perfectly for you to have a chance. And war is an imperfect art. Whereas when you have the numbers you have the lattitude for all types of screw ups. Fighting quality versus quantity is a hard path. And you just make that path harder when you allow the enemy to create discord in what is still an on-going war. GATO came in for CnG and three of it's treatied allies came in on it's behalf. CnG and all our members are not shy about living up to their name and listing every complaint and grievance we have with every other member. That is all GATO needs to stand in account for. Likewise the Viridian Entente entered honorably in behalf of their treatied partners. And the opinions of the peanut gallery on the validity and invalidity oif their strategy is of minimal consequence. I can only thank them for fighting with us. And perhaps privately and cordially if we find ourselves on the same side we can exchange ideas on better and more successful strategems. Also this Edited March 26, 2013 by Azaghul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted March 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Schatt has an unhealthy obsession with either myself Schatt unloads on whomever happens to be immediately opposite of him at any given time. You're not really special in that regard, magicninja. While framed in a manner to address the entirety of our alliance and the rest of the world, the fact remains that this is, indeed, a rather Magic-centric OP. Hey, Freud Squad, it's a thread about GATO's inability to get more than 42% out of PM to fight a war, MagicNinja is the MoD. Mystery solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingu Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 High-concept irony? Please describe to us, yet again, how this topic is a waste of time and not worth commenting on. I don't think the last 5 comments were specific enough. I haven't done that even once, so couldn't do it again. If it wasn't worth commenting on, I wouldn't comment on it. I expressed the desire that Schatt pursue D34th's noble goal of making the Cyberverse a better place. This thread, like much of the Schatt that dirties up this locale, does not contribute to that goal at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Hey, Freud Squad, it's a thread about GATO's inability to get more than 42% out of PM to fight a war, MagicNinja is the MoD. Mystery solved. First I would have had to have tried to get that much out.....your argument is thus invalid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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